Life in Thailand Poll No.6 (HIV Disclosure)

[PeteC]

I was approached by a gaggle of cackling Thai housewives yesterday up in arms that the owner of our local food shop, where we congregate daily, has employed an HIV positive waitress/cook, and has not informed her customers.

I was confronted with questions like; "What if she cuts herself preparing food and blood gets into my sum tum, and I have a sore in my mouth, can I catch it?"

I reassured them that to my knowledge the HIV virus cannot survive even a nano second outside of the body and they shouldn't worry about it. I also told them that across the street at the school our children attend there are probably HIV positive students, teachers and Thai staff and that all of us come into contact with HIV positive people regularly and we do not know it.

What's perplexing is that this is the same group of housewives who volunteer at a nearby HIV children's hospice and don't think twice about it. The issue with the restaurant seems to be: 1) They weren't informed by the restaurant owner who is an old friend of most. 2) Food related exposure seems to spook them.

I don't know what the law is in the West or in Thailand now about declarations by either potential employees to employers, or employers to other staff and customers. We could find that Thailand's laws are more strict than the West and it is a requirement, I don't know. I also don't know how far schools in Thailand or the West currently go in educating children about all aspects of HIV, probably not far enough.

Two of the women were not convinced and I don't know how far they plan to take their crusade. Time will tell I guess.

Comments, advice, suggestions? Pete

[margaretcarnes]

I don't know what the legal requirement on disclosure is in the UK Pete - if any. The whole HIV issue here seems to have subsided as far as publicity and scares are concerned, and I would suspect that any disclosures by employers would create a storm of 'human rights' protests anyway. Employees do have a duty to tell employers/prospective employers if they suffer from certain illnesses/disabilites - thats probably as far as it goes.
That said, workers in the UK food industry are also subject to much stricter hygeine procedures. What is strange is that Thai people can get so worked up about HIV and food, while at the same time not giving 2 hoots when stall holders etc sneeze all over stuff, handle produce with bare hands, pick their noses, and cross-contaminate knives/mincers and other equipment. And thats before taking into account the flies, rats, and bird shit dropping into the somtam!
Non of which has ever bothered me too much - but to answer your question no - I don't believe that the law should require employers to reveal anything about any health issues. BUT there should be much better education in Thailand on everything - HIV and food hygeine included.

[hhfarang]

...stall holders etc sneeze all over stuff, handle produce with bare hands, pick their noses, and cross-contaminate knives/mincers and other equipment. And thats before taking into account the flies, rats, and bird shit dropping into the somtam!

That's Thai "street" food ruined for me then...

[Albie Quick]

...stall holders etc sneeze all over stuff, handle produce with bare hands, pick their noses, and cross-contaminate knives/mincers and other equipment. And thats before taking into account the flies, rats, and bird shit dropping into the somtam!

Never could get the taste quite right myself, at least now I know why

[wpcoe]

What is strange is that Thai people can get so worked up about HIV and food, while at the same time not giving 2 hoots when stall holders etc sneeze all over stuff, handle produce with bare hands, pick their noses, and cross-contaminate knives/mincers and other equipment. And thats before taking into account the flies, rats, and bird shit dropping into the somtam!

Or, the simple act of handling money and food in succession without sanitizing/washing of hands.

TWICE, at two different 7-11 stores, when I was at the cashier I watched a clerk with a feather duster who had been dusting shelves and merchandise give a quick pass on the sandwich toaster they use to heat up ham and cheese sandwiches and the like. I have NEVER let them warm a sandwich for me at any location since then.

Now, that said, I think some folks (especially some westerners) go waaay too far in trying to sanitize their existence. Our native immune systems are less effective when not occasionally exposed to outside invaders (viruses, bacteria, etc).

[Takiap]

I voted No since I don't think HIV is anywhere near as dangerous as the common media would have us believe.

On general hygiene..................in the 11+ years I've been living here. no street vendor's sneeze has ever made me ill. If statistics were available, I'd be amazed if more people get ill here than anywhere else from eating out. PLEASE, the last thing I need is to see the local street vendors wearing rubber gloves. If that's the sort of life a person is after, I would suggest either eating at a local hospital, or better still, buy a ticket out of here.

As for the nervous Thais.........I would quite happily share a meal. including cutlery, with an HIV positive person. Absolutely nothing to worry about.

[Spitfire]

Current HIV rates in Thailand estimate that somewhere around half a million (just over actually) people are infected with HIV/AIDS out of a total population of about 67 million. Going on these figures then, and keeping in mind that there are maybe many thousands more who are unaware of their status, that is about 6.5%.....ish.

There is much hysteria displayed by many, especially the uninformed, so the reaction of the local WI committee round you Pete is probably to be expected.

As far as the virus surviving outside the body goes, current medical thinking estimates less than a minute as the virus is very temperature sensitive and needs an environment of around 98 degrees F to survive, it is a blood to blood pathogen and casual contact is considered as safe.

It is highly likely that most of us come in to contact/speak to people with this affliction without even knowing it, especially those who holiday in some of the nightlife hot-spots.

As to whether disclosure should be mandatory....well....I'm unsure to be honest, perhaps not, maybe only with certain professions that may have a heightened risk of transmission to a third party.

I believe now it has become mandatory at hospitals in Thailand for all people having operational procedures to have a HIV test before commencing, but can choose whether or not to be informed about the result.

Statistics on infection rates from.....http://www.avert.org/thailand-aids-hiv.htm

[Spitfire]

Definitely not drinking enough coffee this morning, just want to correct my shoddy calculation in the above post as have missed the edit window......it's not 6.5% in the first paragraph, should have typed 1.3% ish.

[dtaai-maai]

Definitely not drinking enough coffee this morning, just want to correct my shoddy calculation in the above post as have missed the edit window......it's not 6.5% in the first paragraph, should have typed 1.3% ish.

Off the top of my head, Spitfire, I'd suggest it's nearer half that. Very approx 0.72%.
These modern little calculators can be tricky when the hands are shaking, can't they?

So, what system do you use to calculate percentages for your students' grades?

[Spitfire]

Ha Ha.....I read the stats wrong in the link but they are slightly strangely presented...

Estimated total population, 2011 66,720,153
Estimated number of people living with HIV, end 2009 530,000
Adults (15+) 520,000
Women (15+) 210,000
Estimated adult (15-49) HIV prevalence 1.3%
Estimated number of AIDS deaths in 2009 28,000


Ok...I'll get my coat.

[Takiap]

I suppose it's easy for me to talk since I don't play the field, but the way I see it, you have far more chance of getting killed on the roads here, than you have you catching and dieing from HIV. Even unprotected sex with an infected woman doesn't guarantee you'll catch the virus. A friend of mine, who is now married and living in Thailand, spent his first few trips here with a Thai lady who died from AIDS about one and a half years after their last encounter. He never caught the virus, but it was at least a very real wake-up call. It also took him several months to build up enough courage to go and get tested himself. Based on that, and on a lot of reading, I don't believe the virus is as quick to spread as some would have us believe. I also know a few guys who've been coming here for years, and not one of them have caught the virus, despite their policy of not wanting to wear a rain coat.

Who knows for sure, but casual contact is most definitely not a risk. If anything, it's just another reason for some people to discriminate against others.


What amazes me is the fact that far more body fluids are exchanged here compared to my own country, and yet Thailand's HIV rate is but a mere speck by comparison. Oh well, I guess we'll have to let the white coats figure it all out..................over to you Dr Mike

[wpcoe]

PLEASE, the last thing I need is to see the local street vendors wearing rubber gloves.

Not to worry. Nothing would change other than the presence of the gloves (and perhaps factoring in the price of gloves into the price of the food served.) Still sneeze on to the gloved hand and prepare food with said glove.