Foreign peoples unite

[Randy Cornhole]

Ive just had a great idea.
Lets all just take our money and go home for 1 year! Simple isn't it.
Then we'll see how they get on with selling all these new houses we can't legally own anyway.
The farmers can have their land back to grow pineapples and the like which they can't sell and the Thai bar owners can have their bars back which they can't afford to drink in. The flower sellers would go bust as would all the hotels.
The bar girls could go back home to look after their own children.
Anyway you get my drift.
Without the tourist dollar Thailand would be in real trouble.

[Jaime]

Do you think they'd realise what had happened?

[Randy Cornhole]

They will if we go! There economy will be shot to pieces!
Don't shoot the goose that lays the golden egg.....

[Jaime]

Nah - instead of realising that they'd killed the golden goose the majority of the population would just go back to subsisting on rice and pond water soup and they'd be content. The other 5 per cent would find new ways to screw them instead of us.

[Guess]

Randy,

Tourism is an important part of the Thai economy. The ex-pat community add s even more fuel. However the steep economic growth that we have experienced here since 1997 has much to do with the growth in exports and the domestic markets. This is mainly due to the confidence that foreign businesses now have in Thailand.

I suspect that the economy would not be so dramtically affected by a decline in the tourist trade as many people percieve.

The Spanish economy went through a strong growth period in the 1980s when tourism was on the decline. Similar happend in Greece, Peru, Portugal and Chile and to a much larger degree the UK.

I believe that many people who went "home" for a year would never be able to afford to come back.

[Rider]

Fair observation but a chunk of Thailand's growth is helped along by tourism. The government make no secret of that.

[tuktukmike]

To be fair i dont think all of us returning home would have any impact.

The tourists will still come in their hordes, local issues like land sales would not affect tourism.

I doubt that Thailand would really care if we stayed or left as we do not spend the sort of money a tourist does.

When we came here as tourists 7 years ago we spent more than £6000 on our 24 day holiday.

Now living here we would never spend that sort of amount over say a one month period.

Land sales to Farangs are not considered as inward investment anymore than it would be in the UK, the inward investment that interests any Nation is that of corperate investment ie the opening of large production plants and so on.

Much again the same as the UK ie Honda/Swindon Nissan/Sunderland and so on.

If there is a reason for some protest then lets all stop drinking Chang as they could have given all the bars that sell their product English commentary like they have the Hilton.

Mike.

[Burger]

On the subject of tourists, saw this the other day, quite interesting.
Source is from Tourism Authority of Thailand:

1) Year 2005 saw 13.38 million visitors, actually up from 12 million in 2004 despite the Tsunami (would've thought numbers would have dropped in year after Tsunami.)
2) Those 13.38 million visitors stayed an average of 8 days (seems short period!?)
3) They spent an average of 4,150 Baht each per day (seems low but maybe average affected by backpackers!?)
4) Total tourism income/money spent 450 Billion Baht (6,500 million pounds)
Seems a staggering amount BUT it only represents 2.25% of Thailand's GDP.
However tourist numbers and income just about double what it was 10 years ago. Big upward trend.

Educated guestimates reckon there's approx. 400,000 foreigners living in Thailand, average spend say 65,000 Baht per month (taking into account some of the expats money is earned from tourists) = 312 Billion Baht.
Therefore expats represent about 1.5% of GDP (based on these guestimates).

So johnny foreigner overall (tourist and expats) represent maybe 3.75% of GDP, not as much as I'd thought it'd be, but fast growing market.
If it doubles again in the next 10 years like the last 10, then would represent real value to Thai economy IMO.

Burger

[hogus]

hmmmm....

at the first sight the idea is very attractive, of course.
But like some others I fear that the Thai-government won't be very interested whether we stay or go.
As Burger said, approx. 3.75 % of the GDP is coming directly from tourism.
If you take a bigger view to the affected branches, which are dependent on the tourism the % of GDP will grow up around a multiple.
(Couple of months ago I read it seems to be about 30%-40% of GDP, but I can't give any source, therefore let it be a pure hypothesis!)

Of course, also in my experiences you can only "discipline" Thais by money and diminished income, because they're mostly greedy from nature and addicted to consumption.
May be it would be a more effective way to publish the huge mismanagement, i.e. to point out the law-disaster for foreigners, opaque visa-methods, defective infrastructure, low educational level of the locals etc. ?
A decline of urgently needed big foreign investments from companies or governments could lead, perhaps, to a change in thinking of the responsible politicians?
Unfortunately, this would affect the poor "normal" population at first again.

In my eyes Thailand is digging his own grave part by part...investments and even holidays are much less expensive in the neighbor countries already with similar or even no inconveniences.

Most of us came to TH in the hope to find a better more life, because we weren't satisfied with and in our own countries, right?
So, why we should be able or have the power to change anything in TH?

Honestly I must confess, that I have a better (financial) standing after many years in TH, than I thought before.
That means not for me to stay here for the rest of my life, especially if other countries in SEA offers me better more possibilities, investment chances, or a cheaper but similar lifestyle.
If Thailand becomes too worst, I'll take all my money and move to another country where I've the feeling to be more welcome...that's all!

But, of course, like most of us I hope to have some more nice and funny years here!
Let's see what's going on!

[rosax13]

Good statement hogus!

TH is coming down!
I've been there for many years as tourist and had the idea to relocate from my own country someday.
Forget it! No worth anymore!
Every cent you invest in that country is a lost cent!!!!
Thx to the TRT-government!
Normally I was ready to invest about 10 mio Baht last year in a house and Thai-stocks, I never ever will do it!
Phils, Vietnam and Malaysia are more attractive!

Bye, bye sweet Thailand! See you next life!

Rosax

[hogus]

@ rosax 13

Switzerland, huh???....10 mio Baht???....I thought Saddam's accounts are frozen

Just kidding!

Malaysia is very attractive for investments...I'm totally agreed...but Vietnam???...and the Phils has similar restrictive laws for foreigners as TH, but the lifecosts are cheaper more (nearly 30%), because of the better exchange rate...very comfortable for people with Euros or other hard currencies.

[Guess]

Burger,

Interesting stats. I am surprised at it being so low. The stats reinforce my argument completely.

As for your low figures quoted on length of visits and amount spent every day I agree backpakcers will acount for at least the low spending part but I would guess that their visits are longer than the average.

I was told a couple of years ago that the nation with the largest proportion of the 13.8 Million visitors (as you quoted for now but more like 11 million two years ago ) was Malaysia. They would account for the low figures. They often come just for weekends, they tend not to shop as things are not much cheaqper here than at home and the Muslims (and about 50% of Malaysians are Muslim) do not drink.

However, if does not matter too much as to the amount the ex-pats contribute to the Thai economy. I believe the Thais shoud have a clearly defined policy om immigration but they do not.

[Jaime]

I believe the Thais shoud have a clearly defined policy om immigration but they do not.

They do have a policy - keep 'em all out!

Land ownership by foreigners - not allowed
Thai citizenship for foreigners - not allowed
Voting rights for foreigners - not allowed
Employment rights for foreigners - restricted opportunities

Despite all the moaning that takes place on Thai forums about what bastards the British and other western embassies are towards their Thai girlfriends and wives when they get their visas refused, I can only contrast the above restrictions on foreigners in Thailand with the doors that have been opened for my wife here in the UK:

On arrival - can work in any industry at any level, paying tax and national insurance
On arrival - can own land, property and businesses
On birth of children - can receive government child benefit
After 1 year - permanent residency & can vote in local elections
After 3 years - British citizenship & can vote in all elections

There's so much more I can't be bothered to type it all out.

Foreigners who contribute to society are welcomed here (and I guess in places like the states as well) at least in the legal sense, provided they tick all the right boxes. In Thailand it is the opposite - they smile when taking your money but Thailand does not want foreigners to take part in its affairs in any way, at any level of society.

This reactionary approach to foreigners is a reflection of Thailand's societal insecurity and its irritating pride-come-inferiority complex.