Pension cuts could affect future claimaints

[sargeant]

DB as i have posted i am here BECAUSE i was given wrong information ADMITTED by Inland Revenue

I made a life ALTERING decision based on that incorrect information

IMHO as they had, and admitted that they had, told me i would NEVER pay Tax again they should have left me alone .
The decision should have been IR had told me NO TAX and that as i had proved that they HAD. I should have been left zero rated and not just start taxing me as if they had nothing to do with it.

[sargeant]

Mags darling could you ask your lady with answers the following question

If after this law comes into force and foreign new claimant widows cannot claim widows pension
will a BRITISH wife (passport birth cert British) whose DUES fully paid in British husband croaks also be stopped from getting widows pension because she is living in Thailand

[Noz]

If after this law comes into force and foreign new claimant widows cannot claim widows pension will a BRITISH wife (passport birth cert British) whose DUES fully paid in British husband croaks also be stopped from getting widows pension because she is living in Thailand

I don't think living in Thailand will have anything to do with it. See this link:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/pers ... wered.html

I AM A WIDOW AND MY STATE PENSION IS DUE TO MY HUSBAND’S CONTRIBUTIONS. IS MY PENSION SAFE?

Currently, widows can inherit their husband’s basic state pension, plus half of his entitlement to top-ups such as the state second pension and SERPS, if her own NI contributions would give her less.
If you have already reached state pension age or will do so before the April 2016 cut-off date, the widow’s pension is safe. But, apart from the exception mentioned above for the married woman’s stamp, those who reach state pension age after that date will not be entitled to a widow’s pension; instead their state pension will depend on their own contributions.

And here http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-22447029

"As part of this change, derived entitlement to the basic state pension - where someone receives a married person's pension or a widow's or widower's pension based not on their own working life but the National Insurance record of their spouse or civil partner - will also go."

[sargeant]

quote BB

Despite living and working in the UK for over 20 years, and having accrued more NI credits than your friend, my wife will not get a pension either.

Actually BB she should if i read it correct get the 144 quid (based on her personal contributions and whether you are dead or alive) unless mags says different
quote Mags

Sarge - your wife is OK because you are already claiming your pension. Those affected will be spouses of people who begin to claim (or more correctly become entitled to) after the date of change.

quote Mags

And Hands Up yes you are right about the conditions for the spouse pension. I'm sorry I did get it wrong - foreign wives who don't reside in the UK will only be protected if they are already receiving their pension at the time of the change. So that gives you 3 years my dear

So Noz i think you are incorrect but i agree it is bluddy confusing

[margaretcarnes]

Sarge - British women who retire and live abroad will - as the rules are at present - continue to be treated as they are now. They earn their own pension entitlements, and apart from the ongoing rule about no annual increases in Thailand (and let's not forget some other countries) I'm not aware of any plans to change that basic entitlement.
What the government is trying to do is to cut off support to those foreign wives who are not ordinarily resident in the UK.

[Big Boy]

Here's an interesting twist then Mags. My Thai wife is also naturalised British. Where does she stand please?

[margaretcarnes]

Mags darling could you ask your lady with answers the following question

If after this law comes into force and foreign new claimant widows cannot claim widows pension
will a BRITISH wife (passport birth cert British) whose DUES fully paid in British husband croaks also be stopped from getting widows pension because she is living in Thailand

The brief answer to that is No. The widows pension is an entltlement which, once in payment, continues regardless of location. It is pretty much the same principal as my own additional bit of pension, which is based on my ex husbands NI contributions to cover the years when I was entitled to pay the old Married Womens reduced stamp. If I had been foolish enough to re-marry before pension age I would have lost that addition.
But the whole widows' pension thing is disappearing as new 'equal rights' pensions are comng in. It is still payable to widows who are under pension age, and who are already claiming, but as far as I know (and I'm really not up to speed on this Sarge) it hasn't been payable to widows over pension age for quite some time. Pension Credit has dealt with any shortfalls on that front.
Where confusion does understandably arise is that with any radical change in benefit entitlements, there has always been what is called 'Transitional Protection'. That means that anyone already getting a benefit, pension, or an addition to a pension, can continue to receive it in perpetuity despite the fact that new claimants cannot claim whatever it is because of new rules.
Eventually things even up, and as people quite literally die the playing field is levelled out.
What is happening now is that the Government is implementing much more radical changes. Largely driven IMO by the perceived need to reduce 'handouts', which in itself has been fuelled by the governments' own rhetoric about the cost of Welfare. They are panicking. Pensioners are increasingly being singled out as a drain on society in the UK, simply because we have lived longer than was expected when Beveridge produced his report in the 40's.
The most disturbing side effect of all this to me is that younger people are falling for the rhetoric. There is a growing resentment in the UK of pensioners who 'get everything' - bus passes included - and much of this resentment comes from people who can never hope to achieve 40 years of full time work.
Much as I disagree with Tory policies, Cam has to be seen to do something. And he has to do it before the next election. The result is a rushed and ill thought through raft of changes, which - as always - fails to recognise or publicise the fact that a huge number of people actually fail to claim the benefits they are entitled to.
It is much easier for the Government to target the minority - like the Thai wives of expats - because as we all know Brits who marry Thai women are all either ex cons or sad failures, and the resulting savings in handouts will provide some good tabloid headlines.

[margaretcarnes]

Here's an interesting twist then Mags. My Thai wife is also naturalised British. Where does she stand please?

Great - thanks BB - just what i need after that last post! But my first thought is what do you mean by 'naturalised'? And at a guess your wifes' situation is the same as that of my sister-in law who is Rapanui.
Married to a Brit. Lived and worked in the UK, but has retained her own passport and nationality. Accrues her own UK pension rights on account of paying National Insurance contributions. Moves back to Thailand and retains those rights.
So will your wife eventually be entitled to the new basic UK state pension?
Subject to further enquiries I would say no. But this is only an educated guess at the moment. Given the governments proposals regarding non resident foreign wives it would be logical to assume that your wife - and my sis in law - who still retain their own nationalities, will be stuck with only the basic pensions which they have earned.
OR - they may get the new minimum pension for as long as they remain resident in the UK, and revert to an actual contributions based amount if they return to their home country.......
Thanks a bunch BB. I wonder if Cam has considered these anomalies? Gimme time.....

[Big Boy]

No, my wife went through the full naturalisation process, and is now a dual passport holder.

One thing that you can be sure of is that Cam is making it up as he goes along.

[margaretcarnes]

No, my wife went through the full naturalisation process, and is now a dual passport holder.

One thing that you can be sure of is that Cam is making it up as he goes along.

Couldn't agree more BB! And a reactive policy can only be doomed to failure. I hope.

[caller]

BB, you said earlier that your wife had worked in the UK for 20 years and presumably paid NI for that period too? As far as I can see, that means she will be entitled to a reduced pension in her own right when reaching 66/67 based on those contributions and nothing based on yours.

Also, did she have children in the UK, as was discussed earlier, that could contribute to her NI stock?

Has your wife used the calculator?

https://www.gov.uk/calculate-state-pension

Edit - forgot to add, that one thing all the 'simplification' of the welfare payments system achieves is a huge reduction in the cost of administering it. And the biggest cost factor in all of that administration is the assessment of means tested benefits, so getting rid of those reduces the vast army of public servants currently needed to manage all the changes and additions to the various schemes successive Governments have introduced over the last 50 years!

[MrPlum]

https://www.gov.uk/calculate-state-pension

Many thanks for this link. Answered a number of questions I had paid little attention to.

[Noz]

So Noz i think you are incorrect but i agree it is bluddy confusing

I don't think I am. It seems pretty clear. If you currently get a widow's pension you're ok and that won't change. If you're applying as new after the rules change in 2016, then you are only entitled to your own pension based on your own contributions. No piggybacking on a spouse's contributions. Doesn't matter where you live. Mags' posts you quoted in reply and her subsequent longer post agree with what I said.

[Big Boy]

BB, you said earlier that your wife had worked in the UK for 20 years and presumably paid NI for that period too?

What I said, or should have said if I didn't , was that my wife lived in the UK for well over 20 years. She was employed and paid her NI for about 5 years. Yes she would also have accrued some credit when she had my son.

No, I haven't put her circumstances through the calculator. OAP is so far down the line, I've never taken it into our retirement plans. Maybe I'll start getting excited about it in 10 year's time.

I just find it damned annoying that the goalposts are being moved for something that so many have paid into, and now find themselves excluded through no fault of their own.

[Condoking]

Forgive me if I am wrong, but that Pension calculator only applies to the current pensions law and not the forthcoming changes in 2016.