UK Barclays Bank customers

[Guess]

AS I SAID BEFORE, AVOID THE NATIONWIDE LIKE THE PLAGUE!

Sargeant. Again ignore this post you won't understand it and it will make you sleepy again.

On second thoughts read it one hundred times.

Arguments over which is the beter bank have been going on for years. When was under thirty I had used all of what was then the big 4 banks in the UK and had problems with all of them and ended up going full circle and back to the original Barclays.

They all have pros and cons. Barclays are very technology focussed and spend vast amounts of R&D budget looking at new technology that can give them the edge. I have had many a City lunch with those guys discusing current projects and even products (services in common parlance) that could not be made available for ten years at least.

I also had a good relationship with Nationwide. Their philosophy was to keep a keen eye on the competition and emulate and improve anything that became a success (Japanese style, invent nothing, copy others and improve). Both philosophies complimented each other in the market place and the choice for the customer is each for his own. 1 million customers have 1 million different sets of requirement. Nationwides strength lay in the fact that they listened to the majority of their customers and also the complaints of other bank's customers.

Anyway this has Jack Shit to do with the problems of getting cash in Thailand.
All banks use the same Networks to transfer ATM transaction details so a problem with a network node in Thailand will affect Barclays and Nationwide (both use VISANet). If your card has a Visa or Visa Electron sign on it than that is what it uses.

If, as someone has suggested, the UK banks are independently making their own decisions on declinations on an ad hoc basis then the whole banking infrastructure in the UK has a problem. Decisions like that should only be made by the controlling authoties, i.e the Bank of England who will seek advice from the Foreign office in the case of Thailand. For this reason I suggested contacting your UK bank and demanding an official policy on withdrawls in Thailand. In the mean time take up the telphone/Internet banking option.

[STEVE G]

Guess, I know nothing about the banking industry, but I heard that these problems are sometimes caused by software that looks for transactions out of character with the normal use of the account, does that sound feasible?

[Guess]

Yes they do. You have heard correctly. It is one of the many things I have discussed with Barclays and NatWest.

In this case now though people in Hua Hin are telling me that their patterns are normal. E.g I get 30,000 baht out of my account every month in two transactions usually from the same machine and have been doing it for years.

Also Spending Pattern Analysis is more appropriately used in the Credit Card business where stakes are higher and usually in most countries no PIN.

The PIN should be the ultimate protection but I am hearing rumours that there are large crime syndicates based in Eastern Europe who have found ways of cracking it. Retinal scanning does not solve the problem because that is digitised and encrypted and can also be cracked.

The movement in Europe is towards photgraphing every user. If the full face can not be seen the ATM will not work. If it can be seen it is recorded both locally and remotely. This is a superb solution to combat Chav Scum Hoodies but causes serious issues when it comes to Muslim ladies.

[sargeant]

Guess now lomus got his cash we can discuss.
every thing you say is absolutely 100 percent bangon i have heard virtually all of it at my expence from mumbai delhi or leicester mind you some i did not know quite enlightening
since dec 2005 i have spent in excess of 200quid just on phone cards ditto my mate ringing barclays because they have stopped our cards put them back on i draw go back the next day stopped put it back on draw go back the next day stopped
last month after it being stopped yet again i lost my rag climbed out of my pram went ballistic and in a very quiet voice asked
(WAKE UP WOMAN )
Excuse me do you have my account details in front of you yes says he
you have just spent 15pence of my money telling me about fraud in thailand could you please tell me how many different ATMs i have used
Yes sir says he ONE
gently i prodded how many transactions have i made each month for the last year OH says he long pause three a month sir says he
all on the last three days of the month asks i definitally sir says he
Please explain the fraud says i because this is now 10 months and i demand that full details of the banking ombudsman be posted to me as i wish to make a complaint
OH SAYS HE THAT WONT BE NECESSARY SIR I WILL SWITCH YOUR CARD ON AND ANNOTATE IT FOR TWO YEARS BUT IF YOU DO HAVE ANY FURTHER PROBLEMS HERE IS A REVERSE CHARGE PHONE NUMBER

The next day my mate had same problem but at least he had a reverse charge number and rang from my house phone (OPEN BOX) virtually same conversation

this is november and THIS is THE first month either of us has had no problem
A little extra info my account and bank details are at my present thai address before they were across the road total 6 years but in thailand 91/2 years statements sent every month to thailand 9.5 years

Please Please Please i beg of you explain

that Prof hawking guy has refused to take that task on

Iwill stay awake promise

[Wanderlust]

sargeant & Guess,
Is it at all possible that some of these problems are because of the actual branch your account is held at? Would that explain the different experiences being discussed? Also would it be affected by the amounts being drawn, so if you drew 30k baht in 6x5k amounts rather than 3x10k then it doesn't trigger any blocks? And finally, is the fact that sargeant is drawing on 3 consecutive days (regardless of how long he has been doing so) triggering a block?
Just a few random thoughts on the causes.

[sargeant]

good points wanderlust gotta say i dont know but that doesnt explain why he turned me on annotated it for 2 years and now it works
the biggest problem me and my mate faced was for example we were both on our phones side by side on petchkasem road and both got told totally different reasons and at the same atm machine and the same time
secondly going through the security checks once should have been enough
because one reason i was given was wives ex girls were drawing money months after the guy was dead (good luck to them)( compassion guess gimme a break)
25 phone calls i made in 10 months 25 security checks
I am trapped though because i cannot open an account unless i go back to te uk and thats a raving non starter
What is also frustrating about barclays is they dont even have a street vendors cart in thailand let alone an office and still call themselves an international bank

[Pagey]

Sargeant, can we have the reverse charge phone number please ?

[Guess]

Is it at all possible that some of these problems are because of the actual branch your account is held at?Would that explain the different experiences being discussed?

None whatsoever, the issuing bank has no concept of a branch anymore with regards to ATM and EFTPOS transactions and probably nowhere at all now. Abbey Nat never did have. Their branches were actually just sales outlets. Barclays had already been grouping branches into groups of five or six to reduce staffing and buildings cost when I was last in the UK. The very last bank of any sort in Ealing common now sells Portugese Chicken Burgers with Pir Piri saice.


Also would it be affected by the amounts being drawn, so if you drew 30k
baht in 6x5k amounts rather than 3x10k then it doesn't trigger any blocks?

Possibly but this depends on the risky policy I have already discussed and that is the topic of unilaterally decided declinations. If that is what the UK banks are doing to combat foreign ATM fraud then the withdrawl pattern software that STEVE G mentioned could well be inplemented and that is exactly the sort of criteria I would use. (E.g. what is the most this guy has taken out of a Thai ATM in the last six months and decline anything over.) Put it to the test the next time you get declined. Try again for 100 baht and see what happens. However beware, there may be a limit locally or by your bank on how many transactions can be done in one day.

And finally, is the fact that sargeant is drawing on 3 consecutive days (regardless of how long he has been doing so) triggering a block?
Just a few random thoughts on the causes.

Again yes. Any criteria sesired can be used by the ATM management team. All this though is dependent on the issuing bank getting the request. According to Lomu in at least one case they did not.

If you want to do something then get anybody who gets a declination from a functioning ATM to record the time (GMT) and post it here with the amount requested. When you have a few send them all to the relevant banks and authorities in the UK. Ethically thay cannot offer a service and take it away without notification.

[sargeant]

guess you are right they dont have a concept of a branch and possibly thats why they have no concept of customers either
You are bang on Hammersmith business centre my branch was ealing broadway
Ref the ammounts i thought that for a while but it should have been possible to sort that in less than 10 months especially in light of the offhand way it was sorted
If they had been blocking unusual transactions that i could understand ad would have been glad they were watching my money
Yes guess bank of ayudaya did go down once
one last point when it failed in the ayudaya atms i went to the main branch and they swiped it through no pin and no problem but my charges went up for manual transaction
IM not a patient woman my bottom you tricked me for a while but im on yer trail guess so ill be looking for a falang ladyboy with attitude tonight

I will get back with the reverse charge just as soon as my mate gets back from town

[lomuamart]

Well said, Guess.
I'm just happy to be solvent again - and I don't mean glue.
Thought they were stuck on the outside of ATMs, weren't they? Anyway?

[lomuamart]

To reiterate, the reverse charge number is +44 1604 614812.
Some of us don't want a bank account in this country, until they accept who we are.

[sargeant]

thanks lomu only just prized him out of our local roadside hostellry
anyway its the same one we got
glad to hear you are solvent if it happens again try the ombudsman trick it has worked for me and my mate this month at least

[PJG]

Just some further info on the problems with using ATM's in Thailand. There is an article in my Local Paper linking Card Scams to Thailand. It seems that people's cards are being skimmed in UK and a few days later money is withdrawn from ATM's in Thailand using the correct Pin number. Most of the victims have never been to Thailand but the common denominatior is the use of cards in Petrol service stations. One lady had £600 taken from her Halifax Account in 6 withdrawals and was told by the Police to contact the Thai Embassy as the theft had taken place in Thailand.

It seems that the scams are now fairly widespread with most of the transactions being carried out in Thailand. That perhaps explains why the Banks are suspicious about ATM withdrawals in Thailand.

Am leaving for Thailand to-morrow for a short visit. Will warn the Bank in advance this time and see if I have more success using the ATM.

[lomuamart]

There was an article in The Guardian a couple of days ago about how much was being lost by UK banks every year. The introduction of chip and pin has meant that shop purchase fraud had dropped- most criminals don't have the pin in these situations. However, ATM fraud has exploded, yet again.
Whilst no specific mention was made of Thailand, this country has been know for at least 10 years as being one of the worst in the world for credit/debit card fraud.
Looking back at some posts on here again, I just can't believe that all banks in the UK are the same. I appreciate you know a lot about this, Guess, but this is really new. Is there any Barclays customer out there who has not experienced problems like this, in Thailand, over the past 6 mths? Converserly, is there any other major UK bank customer who has?
I honestly think this is a policy initiated by Barclays. It has absolutely nothing to do with the Bank of England and the other major institutions.
I was emailing my folks the other day and mentioned the trouble I'd been having. My father, whilst never a banker, was and is pretty much on the ball in these matters and his reply was that it's rampant with Barclays at the moment and he has no idea where these security measures will stop - even if they do. Banks are losing too much money.
So, despite all that I and others have written and the fact that the ATM card worked fine at Bangkok Bank the other day - for the second time - Barclays told me that I could expect more trouble over the forthcoming months.
"Just call the reverse charge number and we'll sort it out again. Sorry for the inconvenience".
Good idea to advise the bank about your travels, PJG.

[sargeant]

Lomu pjg
2 good posts just a question or 2
lomu when was the 1st time you had this prob
guess i dont know but i would bow to your knowledge but if the thieves are targetting connect cards why shouldnt barclays try to stop it and why would they have to ask the bank of england to do so
If as pjg states it is uk cards turning up here why stop peoples cards who have thai addresses and have lived here years like me

Lomu i hope we get some feedback from other card holders i am eagerly waiting
Oh and i have got scratch and sniff sorry chip and pin