Baht Rises Dramatically Against Pound/Dollar - Problems!

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JimmyGreaves
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Baht Rises Dramatically Against Pound/Dollar - Problems!

Post by JimmyGreaves »

The baht has risen dramatically against the pound dollar in the last hour:

1.00 GBP
United Kingdom Pounds = 66.9116 THB
Thailand Baht

A drop of nearly 3 baht in the day.


1.00 USD
United States Dollars = 34.0009 THB
Thailand Baht

Big problems ahead for us who rely on money from abroad.

Just got another 300 grey hairs in less than a minute when I checked forex site.

:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:
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Post by bozzman101 »

hloy cow the euro is down to 44 :cuss: :cuss:
just checked x com
gald i sent a few million to bank in hua hin before christmas :wink: :wink: :wink:
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Post by HansMartin »

Any pundits out there know "Why?"

:roll:
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Post by JimboPSM »

I complained a couple of days ago to the BBC News website about the GBP/THB & USD/THB charts and data.

Over the last few months they have frequently indicated rates with violent swings and the rate numbers that they quote are often 2 to 3 % different to the rates quoted by Bangkok, Kasikorn and Siam Commercial Banks (which are real rates that you actually get).

I received this response:
Hi James,

The data we display for GBP/THB is derived from 5 separate sources.

- 3 contributors: Barclays, Saxo Bank and Global Forex Trading
- a GTIS averaged rate calculated as an average of the recent contributed rates
- a GTIS rate calculated from GBP/USD and USD/THB.

In all cases these have indicated a rate of 69 - 69.50 for most of today. The price swings early on in the day were due to significantly diverging rates contributed by Saxo Bank and BMIL for USD/THB, which affected the GTIS calculated rate.

Given that the 3 contributed rates (which come from major financial institutions) match the calculated cross, this suggests that the prices you are showing are valid, at least within the US and UK.

Chris
No explanation was offered as to why there are significantly diverging rates and they only "suggest" the prices are valid.

It is my belief that there is some kind of logic error, glitch or software problem embedded in the data feed that BBC, Yahoo, fxstreet etc use and that you need to check with the commercial banks to get the true rates
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Post by JimboPSM »

This is an extract from a report on Bloomberg today, however I'm afraid it does not make economic sense to me, you will have to judge for yourselves.
Thai Baht Rises to Strongest Since 1997 as Investors Buy Stocks

By Jake Lee and Yumi Teso

Jan. 25 (Bloomberg) -- The Thai baht rose to the strongest since 1997 in offshore trade, as international investors increased purchases of the country's stocks.

The economy will expand as much as 5 percent in 2007, driven by exports, Prime Minister Surayud Chulanont said yesterday. Finance Minister Pridiyathorn Devakula on Jan. 18 said growth was ``at least 5 percent'' last year. Global investors have been net buyers of equities for the past 10 days, the longest streak since October, stock exchange data show.

``Fund inflows into Thai stocks are a good factor and supportive for the baht,'' said Minoru Shioiri, a senior manager of the foreign-exchange trading and credit division in Tokyo at Mitsubishi UFJ Securities Co.

The baht rose to as strong as 33.91 against the dollar, and was at 34.04 as of 2 p.m. in London, according to data compiled by Bloomberg. The currency traded at about 35 in late Asian trade yesterday, according to Sumitomo Mitsui Banking Corp. Thailand's SET Index rose 0.5 percent to 660.71, a three-week high.

Since mid-December, the central bank has imposed penalties on investors withdrawing funds within a year and issued measures to boost money leaving the country, to help stem currency gains. Bank of Thailand Governor Tarisa Watanagase Jan. 22 said she doesn't want the baht to move ahead of other regional currencies.

To contact the reporters on this story: Yumi Teso in Singapore at yteso@bloomberg.net ; Jake Lee in Hong Kong at jlee127@bloomberg.net
Last Updated: January 25, 2007 09:14 EST
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Post by JimboPSM »

Finally, an explanation in The Nation of the wild swings in the THB that we have been seeing.

It appears that we now do have two kinds of THB, an onshore THB and an offshore THB which operate at different rates.

I am guessing that the swings are a result of the interactive data feeds that are probably (and in my view incorrectly) coming from a mix of both rates, I will try and verify whether my guess is correct.
Baht hits 34 to the dollar in offshore trading

Buoyed by the yuan's new high yesterday, the baht surged to 34 to the US dollar in the offshore market, underlining the futility of the central bank's drastic measures to rein in baht speculation.

Onshore, the baht ran up to Bt35.75, forcing the Bank of Thailand (BOT) to enter the market with baht sales to sap the unit's upward momentum.

Traders said dollar sales and the yuan's advances were both behind the rapid appreciation of the baht.

Despite the BOT's intervention to stabilise the baht, analysts asked whether now was the time for the authority to revise its policy to stem capital inflows.

The baht opened at 35.86, then sky-rocketed for the first time since the central bank introduced its draconian capital controls on December 19.

BOT Governor Tarisa Watana-gase said the offshore baht's dazzling performance had a psychological spill-over effect on the onshore market, despite their separation.

A commercial bank dealer said the baht shot up without looking back after piercing the technical resistance level of Bt35.90. Some investors, who had bought greenbacks at Bt36 expecting the baht to weaken further, due to the domestic political situation, dumped their dollars to cut their losses.

Exporters also kept cashing in their dollars, while importers stayed on the sidelines thinking the baht would gain some more.

"The market earlier did not think the baht would break 35.90. When it went through that level, it climbed up quickly and reached its strongest point at 35.75/35.78 in the early afternoon," the dealer said.

The BOT appeared to supervise the market via primary dealers when a big lot of dollar buying went through. The baht then settled at a more sustainable level of 35.75.

A Siam Commercial Bank

dealer believes the BOT did initiate market operations, while the baht was just riding the regional market trend.

The yuan hit 7.7681 to the dollar, its highest point since its revaluation in July 2005.

The yen was also stronger at 120.21 to the dollar after a European Central Bank meeting remarked that the Japanese currency had been too feeble for too long. The yen's slump is being rumoured to be a possible topic at the Group of 7 meeting next month.

Then the market sold the dollar to seal in profits.

A BankThai dealer said the baht had added value sharply over the past few days, particularly in the offshore market. He said the market was waiting for the central bank to relax its withholding measure by exempting the foreign borrowings of local companies. Thus, there was a pick-up in demand for the baht.

Standard Chartered Bank (Thai) economist Usara Wilaipich said the side effects from the central bank's capital-reserve requirement had distorted the market more than the central bank had expected, while its objective of stabilising the baht had bumped into an "impact limit".

She pointed to the one-sided effect of the separation of non-resident accounts for stock trading from normal non-resident accounts. This has dried up offshore baht liquidity, as foreigners sought baht to pay for stock trades.

Another side effect is the higher cost of foreign borrowings by local companies.

"While there are these side effects, the objective of the central bank to stabilise the baht has reached the impact limit that can be effective at a certain level," she said.

The BOT will eventually resign itself to diluting the measure, as demanded by the current market situation, she said, adding that the central bank would then rely on monetary policy to squelch baht speculation.

An investment banker said if the central bank's target was the speculators who were intent on making money from appreciating Asian currencies, it could simply have fixed the baht rate at 36 for all incoming and outgoing baht and eliminated the currency gain from the equation.

"This would have had the effect of allowing the free flow of money without all the negative side effects of this 30-per-cent rule, including that one-day plunge in the market, which had to have crushed local investors," he said.

A recent Phatra Securities report questioned the effectiveness of the capital-control policy.

"The authorities' attempts to stabilise or weaken the baht may have only a limited impact, because the underlying cause of the baht's strength, in our view, is that Thailand is exporting too much. That is, Thailand cannot find ways to use the foreign exchange it earns," said the report.

The government should urgently focus on reviving both private and public investment. The report said doing so would promote growth in the long term and raise demand for imports to bring about a market equilibrium that calls for a weaker baht.

Chulalongkorn University economics lecturer Sompop Manarungsan said if the central bank scrapped the capital-control measure, the net effect would be positive. The benefits from the measure are outweighed by the damage to the capital market.

Anoma Srisukkasem,

Somruedi Banchongduang

The Nation
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Post by JimboPSM »

I have found this quote from the new Governor of the Bank of Thailand in Thailand Outlook for January 11th which confirms that the 30% reserve requirement created a two tier baht.
Dr Tarisa said the 30% reserve requirement had created a two-tier baht market, but it would have a negligible impact on the economy. She said the offshore baht rate was unlikely to influence onshore trade as its volume was relatively thin.
...... so the baht has ended up in tiers :cry:
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Post by lomuamart »

I can't work it out. Checked the rate against GBP yesterday on the net and it was 67 something. This morning 66 something. However, I withdrew a few thousand from an ATM yesterday and this morning checked internet banking and the rate I got at about 11am was over 70.
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Post by JimboPSM »

lomuamart wrote:I can't work it out. Checked the rate against GBP yesterday on the net and it was 67 something. This morning 66 something. However, I withdrew a few thousand from an ATM yesterday and this morning checked internet banking and the rate I got at about 11am was over 70.
There are now two rates for the THB, an onshore rate as quoted by Bangkok, Kasikorn, Siam Commercial and an offshore rate which is related to the 30% reserve requirement.

At the moment I don't know how this might affect ATM withdrawals from banks outside Thailand and what defines the rate you might get on a transaction.

It would help if any forum members could briefly put down what rate they are getting at the moment if they use an ATM to get money from an overseas bank- I would not put it past some banks to take advantage of the situation to make extra profit from their customers.
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Post by JimboPSM »

Opening rates at Kasikorn bank this morning:

USD/THB
  • TT Buy – 35.75
    TT Sell – 35.95
    Mid-Mkt – 35.85
GBP/THB
  • TT Buy - 70.16375
    TT Sell - 70.77375
    Mid-Mkt - 70.46875
Just to upset the digestion, here are the opening BBC Mid-Market rates
  • USD/THB – 34.000 (5.16% below Kasikorn)
    GBP/THB – 66.775 (5.24% below Kasikorn)
From these numbers it appears that BBC feed is currently taking the offshore numbers; if my various assumptions are correct, there is now a 5% gap between the onshore and offshore THB rates.

Since market opening in Thailand, the BBC rates have been jumping between the figures above and the Kasikorn numbers; this confirms in my mind that they are using a mixed feed from the onshore and offshore rates which is results in highly confusing numbers and charts.
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Post by lomuamart »

As I said, I withdrew 3,000 THB from an ATM at 11am yesterday. Earlier this morning I checked internet banking and my Barclays account back in the UK had been debited 42.52 GBP - rate 70.55
I always lose a few Baht to the pound on any ATM withdrawal here, normally about 3. In the last few hours (I've just checked again), the bank have taken their commission back home and the debit now shows at 45.19 - rate 66.39
So, when I withdrew yesterday, the rate I got was as shown above - it shows immediately on my banking details and I get the rate at that moment.
However, the commission that has been deducted is 1 THB more per pound than I'm normally hit with.
Small money, I know, but if the rate yesterday was really 67, then I would have expected the transaction to go through in my account at @64 today.
There are discrepancies, but either way, I've ended up better off (by a whopping 2 pounds or so) than I would have expected if the rate was as low as shown on the internet.
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Post by JimboPSM »

Lomuamart, that was actually a marginally better rate than Kasikorn yesterday (apart from the charges you received) so you got an "onshore" rate.

Hopefully that means that all bank withdrawals using an ATM will get the "onshore" rate.

As an aside, do you know if the charges you get from Barclays for using an ATM are a fixed fee, a percentage or a combination of the two?
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Post by lomuamart »

Looks like they charge 2.6% commission and a fee that works out to 1.5%. On average it looks about 4.1% total, but the more I withdraw, the less the %age is. Used to have a brochure from them (last year's) on their international withdrawal fees, but can't find it.
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Post by Guess »

Comparing tourist rates offered by currency exchangers and retail bank ATM rates is just muddying the waters.

The real rates are agreed between the WB member banks based on complex criteria. During normality and stable commercial activities rates tend to move slowly.

Other factors can cause very fast changes in the value of currencies. The two factors that most affect currency rate changes are political and speculative.

There are some extremely rich people and organizations around the world who deal in Forex. One of their many tools used to do their job is secrecy. The tracks are usually covered and currencies are purchased in many small chunks. When there is a sudden demand for a currency the value will rise.

When you put futures into the equation the situation becomes very interesting. Many people specialize in currencies that they predict will drop considerably. To put the concept in a nutshell. You find a buyer who wants a certain currency in six months and sell it to him at an agreed price. You actually purchase the currency when you believe it is at the lowest rate it will be in the stated period.

It is this kind of dealing along with the lack of controls on THB/Myanmar exchanges that may be causing these massive fluctuations which have culminated in the THB being the highest against the USD for many years. Over a longer term the weakness of the USD will alter the value.

Over the last 120 days The THB has been fair game for the speculators. The political instability makes it almost certain that there will be fluctuations and that means there is money to be made in Forex.

Here is a URL of a guy who can have an enormous effect on exchange rates if he were to suddenly take an interest in the THB.

http://www.soros.org/about/bios/a_soros
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Post by Mack111 »

thats pretty high, i'm with Abbey international and they only charge flat fee for using ATM card overseas at 3 GBP regardless of the amount

you can work with that and just take out bigger sums at a time
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