Thai Airways 'sorry' passengers forced to vacate seats for crew

[Nereus]

"Thainess" at its best! I had them try this trick on me once. Only once! The Captains ears are probably still burning!
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THAI 'sorry' passengers forced to vacate seats for crew

https://www.bangkokpost.com/news/genera ... s-for-crew

The Thai Airways International president has apologised to two passengers forced to give up their first-class seats for two off-duty pilots deadheading from Zurich to Bangkok.

The aircraft's departure was reportedly delayed for about two hours, with the on-duty pilots refusing to take off until first-class seats were made available for their off-duty colleagues.

The national airline posted the apology from president Sumeth Damrongchaitham on its Facebook page late on Thursday night.

He said the matter was severe and affected the airline's image. He had ordered an investigation and would ensure such an incident did not occur again.

"I express sorrow and apologise to all passengers affected by the unprofessional action that caused the delay. And I apologise to the passengers who were directly affected by the seat change. I take responsibility for the incident," Mr Sumeth said.

The incident reportedly involved THAI flight TG971 from Zurich to Bangkok on Oct 11. It was scheduled to depart at 1.30pm but the duty pilots refused to take off unless some first-class passengers agreed to give up their seats to two THAI pilots deadheading to Bangkok.

All first-class passengers initially refused to do so. After about two hours of delay, a couple finally vacated their seats so the flight could depart.

They later filed a complaint, saying the two off-duty pilots should have been given vacant seats in business class, rather than taking all passengers hostage to achieve what they wanted.

The flight was over an hour late arriving at Suvarnabhumi airport.

[Jose]

A Pilots job contract normally states that he is entitled to First class travel if flying as part of his job , so they were just trying to get what they are entitled too.

[StevePIraq]

The pilots salaries are paid by Thai airways who only make money from paying customers. I would imagine 2 paying customers will now use another airline.

[Nereus]

A Pilots job contract normally states that he is entitled to First class travel if flying as part of his job , so they were just trying to get what they are entitled too.

Really? Well I have been a commercial pilot and I never had that option! IF there is a first class seat available, then yes, but it is not an option to remove first class fare paying passengers! More so if as reported there were business class seats available.

[StevePIraq]

The Jump seat is usually allocated to returning crew.

[PeteC]

If the people in First were upgrades using empty seats, then I agree that the returning pilots being given those seats was the correct thing to do. Otherwise, no.

The airline failed in not taking all of this into consideration when the flight was being booked and open for check in. They didn't know about the returning pilots? Pete

[Nereus]

The Jump seat is usually allocated to returning crew.

Yes, sometimes the jump seat is used at the discretion of the captain, but it is only one seat, and it also depends on the length of the flight. Been away from it too long now, but in the US any qualified US pilot for what ever reason could ask to use the jump seat. Did not have to be an employee, it was an industry wide practice at the time.


But the point in this case is the old "me first" attitude, and some mis-guided practice that pilots are some from of semi-god!

[bluelagoon]

Another reason why I never fly Thai Airways....took them only once years ago...the staff were rude all along starting from the ground staff. European or Middle Eastern Airlines are much more respectful with passengers which seems to be a minimum.

[STEVE G]

But the point in this case is the old "me first" attitude, and some mis-guided practice that pilots are some from of semi-god!

Yes, working in the industry, I've regularly seen pilots demand this kind of thing when the company is paying but the moment they're off duty, I see them checking in on the same budget airline flights that I use.
Not so long ago, we had a 747-8 freighter from an American company stuck overnight here because a replacement crew member refused to fly in on an economy ticket and the financial loss on that delay would be way more than $100,000.

[laphanphon]

That's just wrong.

Ex airline employee myself, and they should have taken the business seats.....period. If in their contract to fly First Class only, doubtful, then they would have been ticketed for, and seats blocked.

Nobody uses the jump seat when seats in first or business are available, or even economy / coach, especially for a long haul flight. Only if the only seat left on the plane, then the jump seat, as not the most comfortable..

[Big Boy]

So, according to this report, the First Class passengers were upgrades anyway.

https://www.bangkokpost.com/news/genera ... out-zurich

[Nereus]

Yes, that is what is being reported. But what is not being reported is that the 777 has flat bed seats in business class, where as the 747 just has recliners. Also the number of pax booked business class on the 777 is not posted. The first class seats on the 747 are not flat bed either, so my guess is the station manager was trying to pacify at least some of the 777 business class by upgrading them to first class, although it has been posted that the cabin service was still business class.

[Dannie Boy]

A slightly different slant on the story according to “Live and Let fly”

CAPTAIN DELAYS FLIGHT 2.5 HOURS WHEN DENIED FIRST CLASS SEATS FOR FRIENDS
MATTHEW OCTOBER 19, 2018 21 COMMENTS

Sometimes it is necessary to dig a little deeper. A story is not always what it appears to be on the surface.

It’s true. A Thai Airways captain demanded first class seats for his off-duty pilot colleagues on a flight from Zurich to Bangkok last week. It is also true that when initially refused, he delayed the flight. The flight landed 1.5 hours late in Bangkok, taking off only after two passengers agreed to move to business class.

Thai Airways’ president issued an apology on Facebook:

As the top management of the company, I am sorry and apologize to all passengers who have affected by this non-professional conduct and delay. I also apologize to the passengers who were forced to move seats. I am liable for the passengers on the flight in the incident, and now invite all involved to examine the facts and take appropriate action, including measures to ensure this will not happen in the future.

If that were it, boy would I come down hard on the captain of the flight. What gall. What arrogance.

But there’s more to the story. Lucky lays out the issue nicely and in great detail, but I’m going to use bullet points instead:

Zurich is not a three-cabin route for Thai Airways.
777-300s and 747-400s used on this route have first class cabins, but are sold as part of business class and service levels are identical to business class.
It appears the pilots’ contracts guarantee first class seating on dead-heading flights.
The captain refused to take off because he did not want to set a precedent for seating off-duty pilots in business class
Two business class passengers who had snagged first class seats eventually agreed to row 16, thus ending the impasse.
If You Give Them An Inch, They Take A Mile

As I get older, I’m realizing more and more that if you give an unscrupulous person an inch, he takes a mile. I cannot read Thai and and thus am going off Google Translate, but if Thai off-duty pilots are guaranteed first class seats, I cannot fault them for exercising that right.

Had the pilots just said, okay, we’ll take business class, a bad precedent would have been set. Thai Airways may have felt emboldened to require this more often. Perhaps this whole issue was an error by out-station staff that led to upgrades for passengers who should not have received first class seats. Or perhaps the pilots decided last-minute that they wanted to get back to Bangkok. I don’t know. I just think labor contracts should be respected by both sides.

For the record, I do not like to see pilots in first class. Business Class should be enough (though business class on Thai Airways leaves much to be desired…). But my personal opinion does not matter. If Thai Airways and their pilots agreed to first class seats, Thai Airways should respect that contractual right.

CONCLUSION

It is too bad that most passengers on the flight got caught in the middle of this snafu. This delay is also a poor testament of labor relations at Thai Airways. Even so, sometimes you just cannot roll over and be taken advantage of.

[Nereus]

A slightly different slant on the story according to “Live and Let fly”
Hmm, maybe!
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THAI pilots told to keep mum about Zurich delay

https://www.bangkokpost.com/news/genera ... out-Zurich

Thai Airways International has ordered four pilots involved in a flight delay in Zurich last week not to discuss the matter in public.

Zurich-Bangkok flight TG971 was delayed for two hours on Oct 11 because of confusion over seating arrangements, after two off-duty pilots were denied first-class seats by the THAI station manager in the northern Swiss city.

Two inactive pilots, called deadheads in aviation jargon, believed they were entitled to first-class seats on the flight but all the seats had been taken.
A deadhead is an airline crew member who is sent to a particular destination to assume a duty or for other purposes. On the flight they are on, they are inactive or not supposed to work as a crew.

Flight TG971 left Zurich only after a couple agreed to give up their first-class seats for the two pilots.

The problem emerged after a Boeing B777-300ER, which was supposed to be used for the flight, was found to have a problem in Zurich and a Boeing B747-400 was used instead.

The pilots who were supposed to fly the B777-300ER were therefore sent home because they were not licensed to fly the substitute plane.

The B777-300ER did not have first-class seats while the 747 offered them. The station manager therefore upgraded all business-class passengers to first class, leaving no seats for the two inactive pilots.

News about the delay went viral on social media and the pilots were criticised for thinking only of themselves without caring about the passengers.

After apologising to the passengers on the flight, THAI set up a panel to investigate the issue.

A THAI source told Matichon Online on Saturday that all four pilots involved were ordered not give any information about the incident after the chairman of Thai Pilots Association gave an interview and a pilot posted an item on Facebook in their defence.

The source said the problem stemmed from internal “miscommunication”.

“There is no clear guideline on what to do once the tickets have been sold on non-first-class flights and a plane with first-class seats is used instead. Should the business-class passengers be upgraded to first class or should the section be closed?

“What happened on that flight is the business-class passengers were upgraded but all the services remained business class.”

The source explained that for active pilots, crew cabins are available but if they aren’t, seats must be reserved for them -- first class for pilots or business class if a plane doesn’t have a first-class section.

But for inactive pilots, there is no rule that first-class seats should be reserved for them or not, the source continued.
“We have to wait for the results of the investigation. What we know now is that all the first-class seats were taken and the inactive pilots should have been able to take business-class seats back home.

But the pilots and the station manager should not fight and hold the passengers hostage,” the source said.

[Nereus]

THAI should put customers first

https://www.bangkokpost.com/opinion/opinion/1561794

The business mantra "Customer is king" cannot be applied to Thai Airways International, after the recent headline-making flight from Zurich to Bangkok.

The incident involved THAI flight TG971 from Zurich to Bangkok on Oct 11, which was scheduled to depart at 1.30pm. However, the on-duty pilots refused to take off until their off-duty colleagues who were bound to return to Bangkok received first-class seats which happened to be fully booked.

Such a stiff demand means some first-class passengers would have to give up their seats to the so-called "deadhead" pilots.

Initially, none of the first-class passengers agreed to give up their seats, while the rogue pilots defiantly refused to compromise, as business seats were deemed not good enough. Instead, they maintained the stiff demand, citing company regulations that all the pilots have the right to first-class seats.

The delay continued for two and a half hours until a couple finally vacated their first-class seats for the demanding pilot so that the flight, with more than 300 passengers, could depart.

The couple, one of whom was a retired senior government official, later filed a complaint which took off on social media.

The media attention forced THAI president Sumeth Damrongchaitham to come out and apologise to the affected passengers, and pledge to investigate the case, a reaction that several critics see as not adequate as the incident has caused wide damage to the national flag carrier struggling to stay viable in a highly competitive business.

Even the THAI labour union, which is supposed to protect its staff, criticised the off-duty pilots, admitting the case has severely affected the airline's image.

Mr Sumeth said he has set up a panel to probe the case.

The flag carrier accounced to the the media that the Oct 11 incident happened after a Boeing 777-300 had an engine problem and could not fly from Zurich to Bangkok.

As a result, another flight was sent to take the passengers and pilots of the first plane back.

This resulted in insufficient seats in first class for the pilots and under the company regulations, the airline has to reserve first-class seats for pilots.

In one post, a man who claimed to be a THAI staffer, mentioned conflict between ground officers and the pilots.

It's bad that the TG970 has become a case, and it's worse that the involved pilots, on-duty and deadhead colleagues, have not repented their shameful act that only shows arrogance, poor judgement, a lack of responsibility, and lack of professionalism.

If anything, the incident is tantamount to taking the passengers hostage, without regard for the consequences.
However, the pilots were still showered with support from several of their colleagues who posted messages in social media which merely intensified public anger.

While they insist that the company must stick to the regulations and protect the rights of pilots, they forget the rights of passengers who deserve standard service, to say the least. Such a poor attitude and arrogance are not relevant to the service industry.

When Mr Sumeth took over the presidency of loss-making THAI airways International in September, he vowed to make a turn-around with several plans.

The national flag carrier is one of six financially ailing state firms that required business rehabilitation.
THAI reported losses of 12 billion baht in 2013, 15.6 billion baht in 2014 and 13.1 billion baht in 2015.

The company turned a marginal net profit of 15.1 million baht in 2016, but its financial situation deteriorated again in 2017 when it posted a net loss of 2.1 billion baht.

In the first six months of this year, the company posted a net loss of 381 million baht.
Under Mr Sumeth, the airline's new management team has vowed to get the national flag carrier back in the black by 2022.
The state enterprise has been in the red for several years because of stiff competition as a result of the rising number of airlines, and air routes.

The market share of THAI fell to 27% this year from 37% in the past five years.

Among the rehabilitation plan is the proposed purchase of new aircraft, worth several billions of baht.
Mr Sumeth at least owes the public an explanation about the TG 970 case. Instead, citing "regulations" he has simply "ordered an investigation".

Mr Sumeth must realise that with rogue pilots, his dreams for the flag carrier to make a turnaround may evaporate into thin air.