Vaccines - Covid 19

[handdrummer]

Eventually, all the world's governments will achieve their objective of total population control. The vaccine is the perfect foil.

At some point, I think that governments will stop paying Social Security and pensions to those who aren't vaccinated. Insurance companies will not pay for medical care for the unvaccinated, you won't get a driver's license unless vaccinated, you won't be able to go to school unless vaccinated, etc., etc. And still, the vaccine won't stop people from being infected, getting sick, passing it on, hospitalized, or dying. But------the pharmaceutical companies will continue to make billions and the medical professionals & insurance cos. will make billions and millions, while the majority will live in gulags. it's a Brave New World coming and I'm glad I won't be here to experience it. Unfortunately, my children will.

[Dannie Boy]

So what’s the solution? The reason that COVID is still spreading in large numbers is part (mainly?) because a lot of people remain unvaccinated so it’s still spreading too easily. We know that being vaccinated doesn’t stop you catching it, but people are catching it because too many people are not vaccinated. I can’t find anything quickly to prove my theory but I’m fairly certain that if (virtually) everyone was vaccinated then the ability for it to circulate will rapidly diminish

[buksida]

So what’s the solution? The reason that COVID is still spreading in large numbers is part (mainly?) because a lot of people remain unvaccinated so it’s still spreading too easily.

Not necessarily. The UK claims that around 70% are double vaxed yet they're still getting 40,000 cases per day so the vaccines don't really work in preventing transmission (they cant ALL be unvaxed people getting it). I could be wrong but I thought the main purpose of the vaccine was to prevent hospitalization so the solution is simple - charge the unvaxed for covid treatment should they catch it.

[Big Boy]

The solution has to be better vaccines, together with more vaccination.

We've had the debate about Sinovac being crap. Yes, it helps, but it is not fully fit for purpose. Likewise, I don't think any current vaccine fully does the job. As with everybody else, we all probably know a lot of people who have been double jabbed with various vaccines.

I also know a lot of people who have been unfortunate to catch Covid.

- Double jabbed with Sinopharm, I know 0 people who caught it, but the reputation is terrible.
- Double jabbed with Sinovac, I know 2 people who caught it, but the reputation is terrible.
- Jabbed with Sinovac/AZ, I know 0 people who caught it.
- Double jabbed with AZ, I know over a dozen people who caught it - 3 people who caught it twice.
- Double jabbed with Pfizer, I know over a dozen people who have caught it.
- Jabbed with Johnson, I know 0 people who caught it.

NB: My sample includes both Thailand and UK.

My point is, I often hear the 'my vaccine is better than your vaccine' debate. IMHO they are all unfit for total protection. We will need boosters until a 2nd or 3rd generation vaccine finally slays the beast.

[hhinner]

^^ Vaccination reduces the risk of hospitalization but it doesn't eliminate it. Vaccination also reduces how infectious the virus is in vaccinated people. People who aren't vaccinated pose a risk for vaccinated people who may be elderly or in a risk group where COVID-19 might be a danger to them despite being vaccinated. Then there are those who can't be vaccinated and those who are immunocompromised where the vaccines aren't very effective.

Recommended reading: https://www.factcheck.org/2021/09/covid ... accinated/.

[hhinner]

Mods: maybe vaccine politics should have its own thread as announcements about vaccination opportunities trend to get lost in the clutter??

[Dannie Boy]

So what’s the solution? The reason that COVID is still spreading in large numbers is part (mainly?) because a lot of people remain unvaccinated so it’s still spreading too easily.

Not necessarily. The UK claims that around 70% are double vaxed yet they're still getting 40,000 cases per day so the vaccines don't really work in preventing transmission (they cant ALL be unvaxed people getting it). I could be wrong but I thought the main purpose of the vaccine was to prevent hospitalization so the solution is simple - charge the unvaxed for covid treatment should they catch it.

I agree that it doesn’t stop vaccinated people getting COVID, but I’m certain I’ve read somewhere that being vaccinated reduces (but doesn’t stop) the transmission, so the more people who get vaccinated, the less the transmission.

As BB has mentioned, we’re all still receiving the “first generation” of the vaccine (which was understandably rushed out in record breaking time to provide the best protection possible in the shortest possible time, hopefully the 2nd and 3rd generations will offer better protection.

[hhinner]

^^ Not to mention the pill-type treatments now appearing (no, not fah-thalai-jone ).

[Dannie Boy]

So what’s the solution? The reason that COVID is still spreading in large numbers is part (mainly?) because a lot of people remain unvaccinated so it’s still spreading too easily.

Not necessarily. The UK claims that around 70% are double vaxed yet they're still getting 40,000 cases per day so the vaccines don't really work in preventing transmission (they cant ALL be unvaxed people getting it). I could be wrong but I thought the main purpose of the vaccine was to prevent hospitalization so the solution is simple - charge the unvaxed for covid treatment should they catch it.

I agree that it doesn’t stop vaccinated people getting COVID, but I’m certain I’ve read somewhere that being vaccinated reduces (but doesn’t stop) the transmission, so the more people who get vaccinated, the less the transmission.

As BB has mentioned, we’re all still receiving the “first generation” of the vaccine (which was understandably rushed out in record breaking time to provide the best protection possible in the shortest possible time, hopefully the 2nd and 3rd generations will offer better protection.

I found an article supporting what I said about reduced transmission- no doubt somebody will look to find the opposite!!

https://www.newscientist.com/article/22 ... accinated/

[HHTel]

LONDON — Months of data from the U.K.’s inoculation program have given deeper insight into how effective vaccines are against Covid-19.

The situation is looking bad once again in Britain, but a closer look reveals that it could be lot worse without the vaccines.

The latest government figures show that hospitalizations are rising. In the week ending Oct. 17, 6,315 people were admitted to hospital with Covid-19 — an increase of 15% from a week earlier.

But of the people admitted to hospital between Sept. 13 and Oct. 10, the vast majority were unvaccinated. Hospitalization rates were more than twice as high in unvaccinated people across all age groups, compared to those who had received two doses of a vaccine.

The risk of dying from Covid was also much higher among the unvaccinated population, official data on the spread of the virus in England shows.

For every 100,000 unvaccinated people between the age of 60 and 69 in England, 20 passed away after contracting the virus. Among vaccinated people of the same age group, that number dropped to 4 per 100,000. In people aged 70 to 79, 47 in every 100,000 unvaccinated people died after catching Covid, and in over-80s the rate of death among the unvaccinated was 128 per 100,000.

In people aged 18 to 40, 48 deaths from the virus were recorded. Of those, 34 — or 71% — were unvaccinated.

Charts at the link:

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/22/4-chart ... e-uk-.html

Plus of course, the unvaccinated covid cases (the majority) are free to spread it to both vaccinated and unvaccinated!

Just to add. Therefore there are more unvaccinated people spreading the virus than vaccinated. Reduce those and the whole situation changes. Simple maths.

[buksida]

I found an article supporting what I said about reduced transmission- no doubt somebody will look to find the opposite!!

https://www.newscientist.com/article/22 ... accinated/

Fairplay, I trust the New Scientist.

It still doesn't explain why countries with high vaccination rates are still getting tens of thousands of daily cases - they're never going to get 100%, some people just don't want/trust it. We have to learn to live with this virus, not be punished because of it.

[sateeb]

I'm sure the stats are out there somewhere but it would simplify and clarify matters if Covid hospitalizations and deaths were split up into Vaxxed and non-vaxxed groups. That, to me, is the most important stat as most of us now know that being vaxxed doesn't necessarily prevent one from contracting C19.

Not a betting man but I would have a flutter that that the vaxxed group would be significantly lower than the non-vaxxed.

Edit...HHTel started the ball rolling above

[Big Boy]

I don't have those stats, but I have been monitoring the vaccine status of PKK deaths for a few weeks now. Since I started monitoring, all but one of the deaths was not vaccinated. One death (last week, I think) had received 1 shot of Sinovac.

[hhinner]

^^ I've been (morbidly) following those as well. Quite a large proportion are quite elderly unvaccinated, many of whom didn't want the vaccine out of fear of side effects. Some not vaccinated because their relatives didn't want them to be. Most seem to have underlying chronic health problems as well.

[handdrummer]

^^ I've been (morbidly) following those as well. Quite a large proportion are quite elderly unvaccinated, many of whom didn't want the vaccine out of fear of side effects. Some not vaccinated because their relatives didn't want them to be. Most seem to have underlying chronic health problems as well.

Most elderly people have underlying health problems and if it weren't for Covid, vaccinated or not, wouldn't die early.

Fear of side effects is real. To use me as an example; I can't take pain meds and if I had to deal with a severe headache for 3 days and several nights of sleeplessness I would be suicidal. I'd rather take my chances without a vaccine. I take every precaution possible when I go out and my immune system is in good condition so my chances of getting the virus are greatly reduced.