Electric Vehicles (EV) Thread

[KhunLA]

Number of 'registered' EVs, first 3 months of 2023

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Price & specs

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[caller]

If you can't find a charging station, you're not looking:
https://www.plugshare.com/
cs.png

CS Network.jpg

334882194_225596886541444_6573948444980772963_n.jpg

Seems to be large swathes of Thailand without any cover. Khon Kaen is a major city in the NE and that seems poorly covered. I am sure it will improve in time, but right now, your obvious enthusiasm isnt really matched by the reality. I also recently drove in stages, from Hua Hin to Khon Kaen and back and if some of the service stations we stopped at had electric chargers, they were well hidden!

[KhunLA]

If you can't find a charging station, you're not looking:
https://www.plugshare.com/
cs.png

CS Network.jpg

334882194_225596886541444_6573948444980772963_n.jpg

Seems to be large swathes of Thailand without any cover. Khon Kaen is a major city in the NE and that seems poorly covered. I am sure it will improve in time, but right now, your obvious enthusiasm isnt really matched by the reality. I also recently drove in stages, from Hua Hin to Khon Kaen and back and if some of the service stations we stopped at had electric chargers, they were well hidden!

Don't know how many CS y'all think are needed, but Central Plaza Korat to Central Plaza Khon Kaen is 190 kms. Not that you would need one, but there are 8 CS in between those 2 points.

I see more than enough. There are few to no places that have 250-300 kms with no CS stations. Consider, most people charge at home, and don't go further than 100 kms away from, in there normal routines.

As stated earlier, I got planned trips, CM, CR, NBLP, with no worries of getting to anywhere. Same with our southern loop, already checked, and no problem.

Along the N Myanmar border is a bit thin on CSs. But that's about it. PlugShare site shows most, if you peek at that. I'd guestimate 90% of folks that actually go out & about, aren't going to have a problem finding CSs every 200 kms at worse.

Use Gmaps, and type A Muang to A. Muang to the next province, and none are too far away, along with CSs in between.

[caller]

Central Plaza Korat to Central Plaza Khon Kaen is 190 kms. Not that you would need one, but there are 8 CS in between those 2 points.

Yes, I know the two well and the road in-between. I have lived in Korat and was in both Central's mentioned above in Songkran week. I will be heading up there again soon to visit a personal friend in KK who is in a bad way.

[GroveHillWanderer]

Seems to be large swathes of Thailand without any cover. Khon Kaen is a major city in the NE and that seems poorly covered. I am sure it will improve in time, but right now, your obvious enthusiasm isnt really matched by the reality. I also recently drove in stages, from Hua Hin to Khon Kaen and back and if some of the service stations we stopped at had electric chargers, they were well hidden!

Not all chargers are in service stations. MG advertises having CS's every 150km and none of their chargers are in service stations. You also have charging stations at shopping malls and PEA offices, to name just two other options.

Just because you didn't personally see EV chargers in the service stations you happened to stop in, doesn't mean there aren't any.

Just FWIW, PlugShare shows 17 charging locations in Khon Kaen, which I would say is a decent number.

[caller]

17? How is that a decent number. Its a city.

[KhunLA]

17? How is that a decent number. Its a city.

Don't think the charging stations are for people actually living there, as they mostly charge at home. More for people visiting or passing through. I've never need to use one in my area, or within 100 kms of home.

I'm mid province/PKK, and can go to the top or bottom of the province, round trip, and top up when I get back home.

[Dannie Boy]

The level of EV charging points in Thailand probably isn’t too bad - last year a total of just under 93k EV cars were sold - compared to the UK where the figure was 365k.

What is unknown is how many of the EV chargers are fully operational - you read about a relatively high incidence of non-availability in the UK, maybe it’s better here?

No doubt though, that more needs to be done to improve the current situation - if you pull up at a petrol station and the pump is being used, you wait a max of 5 minutes - at an EV charging point the wait could be an hour+!!

[caller]

Meanwhile, back in the UK, the debate is getting heated. I doubt Thailand is different to anywhere else with EV issues. I'd like to know how many chargers would be needed for a condo block full of cars, or where they will even find the room to put them?

One thing I don't understand is this; If most charge their cars at home, why are there so many charging points at high end malls in Bkk, for all the hi-so's mercs, beemers, or what have you? And I can't recall ever seeing a BYD, MG or Haval in the one we pass going to our usual parking spot at Central Chit Lom.

Anyway, back to the UK and from The Times a couple of days back, I will copy in full if you can't get around the paywall.

But in my view, the most interesting comment in the article is this: Toyota boss Akio Toyoda said that the “silent majority” in the auto industry did not believe EVs were the future. Do check out the comments as well.

Ditch ‘unrealistic’ pledge to ban petrol cars by 2030, ministers told

Ministers have been urged by MPs, economists and motoring groups to rethink plans to ban the sale of new petrol and diesel cars by 2030.

Criticism is growing over the most significant government intervention in the car market to date, amid claims that regulation is not needed to promote electric vehicles (EVs).

The sale of new petrol and diesel cars will be banned in 2030 while new hybrid cars, which use a combination of electric and conventional fuels, will be banned in 2035.

Doubts have been raised over whether there will be adequate charging infrastructure and MPs have warned that a move to entirely EV is “unrealistic”. Consumer demand for EVs, especially second-hand vehicles, has fallen in recent months as squeezed household budgets and high energy prices turned people away. Interest in new EVs has fallen by almost two thirds since the start of last year, according to Auto Trader.

A report by the Centre for Economics and Business Research (CEBR), commissioned by the pro-petrol lobby group Fair Fuel UK, questioned the benefits of regulation. It said that even without a ban there would be significant falls in carbon emissions, with EVs becoming more popular while petrol and diesel cars become more fuel efficient.

The government’s forecasts for EV uptake range from 60 per cent to more than 95 per cent of new car sales by the end of the decade. Its estimates are more optimistic than in other big markets including the United States, where forecasters suggest EVs will account for 15 per cent of sales in 2030 and 19 per cent by 2050. Cheap petrol and the vast size of the country are said to be significant factors in the US.

Karl McCartney, Conservative MP for Lincoln and a member of the transport select committee, said that the ban was not “realistic” and that the government “shouldn’t force people to do things that really don’t wash”.

He said: “The use of EVs will spread to urban areas but once you get outside the big cities, the situation is very different. There isn’t the infrastructure or the desire.”

Jacob Rees-Mogg, the former business secretary, said: “It’s absolute madness. We are not ready. The petrol engine is an extremely efficient way of providing transport. The charging infrastructure just isn’t there. The cost of electric cars is still very high. The range of electric cars is still not good enough.”

The government wants 300,000 public charge points to be installed by 2030. There were 28,375 in January last year and just over 37,000 at the start of this year, meaning that at the current rate of installation 106,000 would be in place by the target date.

The 2030 ban on petrol and diesel cars was announced by Boris Johnson in 2020. It was intended to propel Britain to become a leader in EV uptake, in turn driving investment by the motor industry. But the road has been bumpy, with manufacturers left in the dark and Britishvolt, the company behind a plan to build a £3.8 billion factory in Blyth, collapsing in January.

From next year manufacturers will be mandated on how many zero-emission vehicles they sell, starting at 22 per cent of their total production. That will rise to 28 per cent of sales in 2025, 80 per cent in 2030 and 100 per cent in 2035.

Pressure from countries including Germany and Italy resulted in the European Commission recently diluting its 2035 ban on the sale of pure petrol and diesel cars to permit the use of vehicles running on electrofuels (e-fuels), which use CO2 captured from industrial emissions combined with hydrogen produced by renewable energy.

The CEBR report claimed that the ban would cost each household £14,700. Its analysis concluded that the decision represented “poor” value for money, with costs more than five times higher than the benefits.

“The government is going through it with complete myopia, doing it on an entirely virtue-signalling basis rather than a practical one,” said Howard Cox of Fair Fuel UK. “We need to scrap the ban and work on clean fuel technology and let it evolve naturally.”

Ian Plummer, Auto Trader’s commercial director, said: “A healthy used-electric market is crucial to the success of the new market and ensuring a fair transition to electric vehicles, but it may begin to struggle without action, specifically on affordable options and battery health confidence.”

Hugh Bladon, of the Alliance of British Drivers, added: “The infrastructure isn’t there and yet the ban is seven years way.”

Motoring bosses have also voiced concerns over the policy. Oliver Zipse, chief executive of BMW, last year urged “English politicians to review their strategy for ending the combustion engine in 2030 or 2035” while the Toyota boss Akio Toyoda said that the “silent majority” in the auto industry did not believe EVs were the future.

Case study

Car dealers are acutely aware of the fall in price of used electric vehicles — and are struggling to shift them from their forecourts (Ben Clatworthy writes).

“Prices are in freefall, it’s crazy,” said Jamie Caple, the boss of Car Quay, an independent used-car dealership near Derby. “We were really looking to press on with the number of EVs on the forecourt, but unfortunately because of market conditions we have really pushed back to conventional stuff, your petrol and diesels.”

Caple said that he had three EVs on his forecourt and all were now listed at less than he paid for them, with him anticipating losses of more than £1,000, but he is “fully stocked up with petrol and diesels” which were selling well.

He said: “A very quick way of going out of business is buying something for one price and then selling it for less.”

The current market has caused him to question the logic of the 2030 deadline — and whether it is achievable. Like so many in the auto industry, Caple is particularly concerned about charging infrastructure and highlights the fact that as more people covert to EVs, the more “horror stories there are of people becoming stranded” or turning up at a charging station and finding several of the units broken.

Caple said: “When you see what is happening now with EVs and then look at 2030, it puts what was already a very ambitious target into even more jeopardy. I just can’t see we are going to be ready for everyone to be driving EVs. The infrastructure isn’t there.

“I do feel like the government has announced the policy but really it’s about showing off their green credentials. It’s politically driven. It’s a way of appealing to younger voters and showing green credentials. It’s going to take a brave party to perhaps say ‘We are putting the brakes on this — we are going to push it back to 2035 or 2040’.”

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/ff40 ... 5ab5bfa4c2

[KhunLA]

The level of EV charging points in Thailand probably isn’t too bad - last year a total of just under 93k EV cars were sold - compared to the UK where the figure was 365k.

What is unknown is how many of the EV chargers are fully operational - you read about a relatively high incidence of non-availability in the UK, maybe it’s better here?

No doubt though, that more needs to be done to improve the current situation - if you pull up at a petrol station and the pump is being used, you wait a max of 5 minutes - at an EV charging point the wait could be an hour+!!

Apps of vendor state if operational, same with PlugShare site & ChargeLoma app. IF informed, which EV drivers seem to be pretty good at. Also reviews of Charging Stations on same sites & apps.

When we were out and about, we called ahead to verify (MG chargers), and wouldn't you know, the 1 we didn't call was out due to a lightening strike. Although we didn't call, since at Krung Thep, knowing there was so many, and simply stopped at another that was on the way home. Didn't even need to make a detour.

Planning ahead usually works with all things.

[STEVE G]

But in my view, the most interesting comment in the article is this: Toyota boss Akio Toyoda said that the “silent majority” in the auto industry did not believe EVs were the future. Do check out the comments as well.

Akio Toyoda was recently replaced as CEO of Toyota and one of the main reasons was that his resistance to EVs had left the company behind in this coming transport revolution.
To be honest, all this talk about how impossible EVs are is starting to look a bit silly considering how many are now being sold.
There is a marketing theory about the public adoption of new technology and it says that the first 15% is the hard part and after that, the rest is easy. Electric car sales are at about 15% worldwide now and accelerating rapidly, so just watch it happen!

[Dannie Boy]

But in my view, the most interesting comment in the article is this: Toyota boss Akio Toyoda said that the “silent majority” in the auto industry did not believe EVs were the future. Do check out the comments as well.

Akio Toyoda was recently replaced as CEO of Toyota and one of the main reasons was that his resistance to EVs had left the company behind in this coming transport revolution.
To be honest, all this talk about how impossible EVs are is starting to look a bit silly considering how many are now being sold.
There is a marketing theory about the public adoption of new technology and it says that the first 15% is the hard part and after that, the rest is easy. Electric car sales are at about 15% worldwide now and accelerating rapidly, so just watch it happen!

Just as long as the infrastructure keeps pace with production!!

I still believe there will be a bit of a lull until there’s a breakthrough in battery technology (solid state) in a few years, then things might take off, but that still needs the charging infrastructure to be in place!!

[pharvey]

But in my view, the most interesting comment in the article is this: Toyota boss Akio Toyoda said that the “silent majority” in the auto industry did not believe EVs were the future. Do check out the comments as well.

Akio Toyoda was recently replaced as CEO of Toyota and one of the main reasons was that his resistance to EVs had left the company behind in this coming transport revolution.
To be honest, all this talk about how impossible EVs are is starting to look a bit silly considering how many are now being sold.
There is a marketing theory about the public adoption of new technology and it says that the first 15% is the hard part and after that, the rest is easy. Electric car sales are at about 15% worldwide now and accelerating rapidly, so just watch it happen!

Just as long as the infrastructure keeps pace with production!!

I still believe there will be a bit of a lull until there’s a breakthrough in battery technology (solid state) in a few years, then things might take off, but that still needs the charging infrastructure to be in place!!

Personally I believe we're some way off yet and there are key improvements/changes to be made. Infrastructure is obviously an issue currently, but the subject of NEGATIVE environmental impact of EVs is rarely broached. Intensive mining for the materials required for EV batteries (Lithium, Nickel etc. amongst more "exotic" materials), and it's impact on the environment. Production of the batteries themselves - huge water usage for example. Charging of batteries - in the most part from power supplied by Fossil Fuel "Fired" Power Plants. Lifespan and "Recyclability" of batteries - low on both counts, where do the "dead batteries" go?

As sales and use of E|Vs increase, so will their impact on the environment - we may well be trying to solve a problem by simply causing or growing another.

Don't get me wrong, EVs are the way of the future, but there many considerations and much that needs to be done.

[STEVE G]

....but the subject of NEGATIVE environmental impact of EVs is rarely broached.

I'm not so sure about that, it sometimes seems to get broached more often than the negative impacts of fossil fuels.
Let's be honest, oil extraction isn't exactly renowned for beautifying the planet.

[pharvey]

....but the subject of NEGATIVE environmental impact of EVs is rarely broached.

I'm not so sure about that, it sometimes seems to get broached more often than the negative impacts of fossil fuels.
Let's be honest, oil extraction isn't exactly renowned for beautifying the planet.

OK, "Rarely Broached" was perhaps incorrect, but I can't say that I've seen their negative impact coming up more than that of fossil fuels.

And no, oil extraction certainly isn't wonderful for the planet. BUT as mentioned it's not going to stop anytime soon as regardless of ICEs, fossil fuel powered stations are still necessary for the production of and charging of EV batteries. Add that to the increase in intensive mining........

I've no doubt that solutions will be found whether it be in materials of construction, design and also further development of green energy, but we're somewhat further away than many believe IMHO.