Electric Vehicles (EV) Thread

[Dannie Boy]

EV’s are definitely being touted as the green alternative to ICE’s, but it’s somewhat disingenuous in that to produce the batteries, there’s a huge impact on the environment both in production and in recharging the batteries. I don’t know what the difference is between the two, but it’s definitely not the case that EV’s have a clear conscious!!

[KhunLA]

Everything and anything than humans produce, manufacture has an impact on the planet. But guessing EVs are far better than ICEs and the fuels that power them. Locally, ground level air pollution, EVs win hands down, as any scooter rider's nose knows.

Of course electricity should be generated much cleaner, solar, hydro, wind, thermal (if available). Anything but fossil fuel, biomass or nuclear.

You really can't get any more inefficient than petrol for transport and energy from ground to your car or grid.
If only a small percentage of this vid is accurate, it's embarrassing that politicians & govts have allowed big oils grip on our transport & energy to exist as long as it has.

[KhunLA]

Yesterday was a treat, as while on my morning rounds to the park & surfside, I saw the most EVs yet. Not cars, as see them quite often, thankfully.

Saw 4 'smaller' EVs. 2 of the EM types, must have been that HomePro promo a while back. Then saw 4 wheeler, dual seat, older one that had some year on it, as did the chickie driving it (think golf cart type). Best was a Titan stand up scooter. Rather tall gent, and really nice scooter. As I tried to see the brand name, catch up to it, realized he was doing 55 kph. Really nice scooter.

Searched it, not cheap, as for a wee bit more or less, you could buy a real E-motorcycle, though not as portable. Impressive performer. Saw all 4 in less than a 15 ish minutes time span.

There really is something for every lifestyle or budget. Saw this one (EM type) a day or so prior. Brought a smile to my face:

[Big Boy]

Yes, my wife has one that she uses as an invalid buggy. It easily does 40kph, which is plenty fast enough for running to and from local shops, hairdresser, etc. Very cheap with Government incentives. A lovely little machine. Just an overnight charge every Friday evening.

[Dannie Boy]

I found your YouTube video somewhat biased against fossil fuels, so even though there is evidence that lifetime emissions of Battery Vehicles are lower than ICE Vehicles, this article seems to be more balanced (to me anyway).

The inference here is that producing batteries for EV’s does create pollution, however it’s possible to manage these easier/better than you can with fossil fuels and almost certainly the current situation can/will be improved upon, making the distinction between the two greater as technology evolves.

https://8billiontrees.com/carbon-offset ... roduction/

[Nereus]

but it’s somewhat disingenuous in that to produce the batteries, there’s a huge impact on the environment

Oh, you are not allowed to say that, Dannie Boy!

[Dannie Boy]

but it’s somewhat disingenuous in that to produce the batteries, there’s a huge impact on the environment

Oh, you are not allowed to say that, Dannie Boy!

I’m a naughty boy - time for a good spanking !!

[STEVE G]

I've no doubt that solutions will be found whether it be in materials of construction, design and also further development of green energy, but we're somewhat further away than many believe IMHO.

The plan is for the world to get to net zero carbon emissions
by 2050 and that means starting now and improving as things progress.
If we delay until everything is perfect it will be too late, you can't wait until you have 100% renewable energy and then start changing to electrified transport, both need to be developed in parallel.
The Boomer generation has kicked the can too far down the road already on this one and doing more nothing again will be disastrous for the world.
Meanwhile, just look at the numbers, China is at 30% EV sales already, Norway over 90%. This transport revolution is happening now and almost no car manufacturer is doing any development on IC engines anymore, they're finished.

[KhunLA]

So the anti EV'er didn't, don't have a problem with mining lithium and production of batteries, in products they use; computer. laptops, phones, camera, medical equipment, etc etc etc.

Or used in heat-resistant glass and ceramics, lithium grease lubricants, flux additives for iron, steel and aluminum production. Don't forget lithium for the nutters, to calm them down.

Just bad to produce for EVs. Wonder where that thinking/propaganda came from ?

HINT: corporations (that use), but would rather you buy their product (petrol/diesel) instead. Over and over again, to use and maintain inefficient machines that simply use more everyday.

Some of, if not the worst polluter on the planet.

[KhunLA]

I will concede, there are reason not to own an EV:
... you can't charge at home
... or going to a charging station once a week is too inconvenient
... not in your budget ... but that 771k to 2M baht SUV, 4x4 might be
... you'd rather spend more money to operate & maintain your transport
... you don't wont better performance for you money
... you have to have a truck
... you have to be there ASAP, driving as fast as possible, and only stopping on the way every 4 or 5 hours to refuel, piss, then back in the vehicle for a couple more 4 or 5 hr legs till you get to your destination.

I can't think of any others. I'd say you don't care about saving he planet, but the planet doesn't need saving. BUT, you would help the local air pollution problem if using an EV.

[caller]

There will come a time in Thailand when sales of EVs will start to stagnate, simply because the vast majority of Thai's can't afford any new car, and only cheaper 2nd hand cars, at best. The vast majority of Thai's live hand to mouth and that isn't going to change anytime soon. I guess the only good thing is that sales of electric bikes should increase!

[STEVE G]

The BYD Seagull should be coming soon and should be as affordable as any car in Thailand:
https://carnewschina.com/2023/04/26/byd ... last-week/

I think they talking of selling in Thailand for around about 400,000bt.

As for the rest of the population, electric scooters could be the way ahead, something like a battery powered Honda Click would work. No one goes that far on a scooter so you shouldn't have so much of a range problem.
There is a Spanish company that makes an electric scooter with a battery that you can remove like a wheeled case and take home to charge.

[Dannie Boy]

The BYD Seagull should be coming soon and should be as affordable as any car in Thailand:
https://carnewschina.com/2023/04/26/byd ... last-week/

I think they talking of selling in Thailand for around about 400,000bt.

As for the rest of the population, electric scooters could be the way ahead, something like a battery powered Honda Click would work. No one goes that far on a scooter so you shouldn't have so much of a range problem.
There is a Spanish company that makes an electric scooter with a battery that you can remove like a wheeled case and take home to charge.

This article suggests that the price in Thailand is likely to be more like 700,000B so quite a bit more than you’ve suggested Steve, but still relatively cheap compared to other cars. Although Caller was suggesting EV sales might dry up soon, I’m not so sure, Thais manage to be prodigious buyers of pickups, no doubt many on loans, but I’m sure where there’s a will there’s a way!!

https://www.carsome.co.th/news/item/car-review-byd

[Dannie Boy]

Another “positive” article re EV’s and in particular recycling redundant batteries which have so far been a thorny subject!!

https://www.positive.news/environment/e ... ean-it-up/

[pharvey]

So the anti EV'er didn't, don't have a problem with mining lithium and production of batteries, in products they use; computer. laptops, phones, camera, medical equipment, etc etc etc.

Well, I've not once stated I'm anti-EVs (quite the opposite) and with reference to mining, it is the MASSIVE INCREASE that is required to produce the batteries for EVs. Some of the figures quoted are truly frightening: -

"For the world to meet demand for electric vehicle and energy storage batteries in the next decade, it will need to have built almost 400 new mines by 2035, according to London-based price reporting agency, Benchmark Minerals.

Lithium-ion batteries – the so-called ‘white gold’ that powers electric vehicles and energy storage – requires graphite, lithium, nickel and cobalt to be mined.

According to Benchmark the price of lithium soared 280% between January 2021 and January 2022 – and establishing a domestic supply of lithium has become the modern-day version of oil security.

The Benchmark forecast however predicts that with increased demand for lithium-ion batteries, at least 384 new mines for these battery components are needed, with that number only reducing to 336 if recycled raw materials support the cause.

The need for lithium-ion batteries is expected to grow six times by 2032, according to Benchmark’s research.

However, supplies of lithium, graphite, nickel and cobalt are in limited, with China owning the majority of the global lithium-ion battery supply chain."


Taken From: - https://techinformed.com/almost-400-new ... ata-finds/

As for the charging of the batteries themselves, it's pretty much a no-brainer that the supply of green/"greener" energy is massively inadequate as it stands, so fossil fuel powered stations will still be required for quite some time.

Technology needs to move on and quickly or we are realistically just robbing Peter to pay Paul.