Tax residency in Thailand and taxing overseas income

[Benroon]

It's been published in the Royal Gazette - you just need google and a thai speaker/reader to find the official document but it is also confirmed here

https://thailand.postsen.com/live-style ... -2024.html

Here is a calculator to tell you how much you will be liable to pay

https://www.uobam.co.th/en/tax-calculation

So essentially for retired chaps a ballpark figure for the 65k a month (and you're over 65) - will mean a tax bill of circa 18,000 a year. (I can imagine this is going to get very messy for anyone using agents money)

[HHTel]

On the UK side, there's a current push to close bank accounts if you're not a UK resident. Pension companies are also aiming to stop depositing pensions abroad.

The new revenue tax issued will likely be challenged in the courts according to the Thai Examiner:

The change in tax interpretation in Thailand in a directive issued on September 15th, 16/2023, is widely expected to be challenged in the courts on the basis that it is only a revised interpretation of an existing provision of the Thai tax code, which has been accepted for 35 years.

There's also information on the UK banks attitude and planned restriction for UK expats:

https://www.thaiexaminer.com/thai-news- ... ent-goals/

[Motyduke]

It's been published in the Royal Gazette - you just need google and a thai speaker/reader to find the official document but it is also confirmed here

https://thailand.postsen.com/live-style ... -2024.html

Here is a calculator to tell you how much you will be liable to pay

https://www.uobam.co.th/en/tax-calculation

So essentially for retired chaps a ballpark figure for the 65k a month (and you're over 65) - will mean a tax bill of circa 18,000 a year. (I can imagine this is going to get very messy for anyone using agents money)

But what about countries with double tax treaty with Thailand ?

[malcolminthemiddle]

As far as I can tell it doesn't need to be published in the Gazette. The rule has always been there. It's just a matter of interpretation and enforcement.

The change is underlined. Any change /new law shall be published in the Royal Gazette to become effective.

Clause 1: Persons residing in Thailand according to Section 41, paragraph three, of the Revenue Code who have assessable income due to work duties or activities performed abroad. or because of assets located abroad according to Section 41, paragraph two of the Revenue Code In the said tax year and has brought that assessable income into Thailand in any tax year

[HHTel]

Because of the word 'Royal' people think it's administered by the monarchy. It's full title is 'The Royal Government Gazette'.
It's the government who dictate what is published in this gazette.

Afik anything published there is up for 'challenge'.

Yes the government is obliged to publish any change in the Gazette.

[STEVE G]

...— from employment, a business carried on overseas, or property situated overseas — that is brought into Thailand should be subject to personal income tax....

Does a pension or investment income come into that?

[Benroon]

...— from employment, a business carried on overseas, or property situated overseas — that is brought into Thailand should be subject to personal income tax....

Does a pension or investment income come into that?

Yes definitely - thats the low hanging fruit. Investment income will be subject for tax for sure unless it's taxed in the UK ie they take it off at source. Private pensions absolutely unless again they deduct at source. Each person will have to work out where their tax liability is the least I guess. However how you go about proving tax has been paid remains to be seen, but it will be the thai banks that run the show thats for sure in my opinion. I'm pretty sure the onus will be firmly on the foreigners plate ie show us the proof/or settle your bill or no annual extension.

Thailand has signed up to the CRS (Common Reporting Standard) earlier this year, probably in preparation for this, else it's a hell of a coincidence, which essentially means if the authorities here want to delve into your UK tax affairs, they only have to ask, so most of the dodges I've read about will be non starters, the US has not signed up to it.

It's pointless building up angst about this, it was always coming, no-one lives tax free and playing devils advocate everyone should have been preparing for this as the rules they are about to enforce, have been in place for a very long time. So who's missing army rule now?

(Palestine and Borth Korea are still tax free havens!)

[Benroon]

On the UK side, there's a current push to close bank accounts if you're not a UK resident. Pension companies are also aiming to stop depositing pensions abroad.

The new revenue tax issued will likely be challenged in the courts according to the Thai Examiner:

The change in tax interpretation in Thailand in a directive issued on September 15th, 16/2023, is widely expected to be challenged in the courts on the basis that it is only a revised interpretation of an existing provision of the Thai tax code, which has been accepted for 35 years.

There's also information on the UK banks attitude and planned restriction for UK expats:

https://www.thaiexaminer.com/thai-news- ... ent-goals/

Would be interesting to know who would challenge it? and even if challenged I'm thinking that wouldn't make any difference to the forthcoming taxation of foreigners. The cats out the bag now, the rules are already in place, we have to pay.

[Troon Expat]

Maybe I am missing something regarding retirees living off pension income. Are not all pensions taxed at source ? They certainly appear to be in the U.K. The Inland Revenue issue a statement each year to all tax payers of gross income along with the tax deducted.
Would it not simply be a case of printing off this statement as evidence of the tax payed ? Otherwise what is the point of double taxation agreement if they are going to tax you again ?

[Big Boy]

Exactly, but people love to scaremonger. These changes get issued every couple of years (usually just before Christmas), and initiate a lot of discussion. They rarely turn out to be anywhere near as bad as some people seem to wish. The dual tax agreement has been mentioned from the outset, but it suits many to ignore the fact.

We can't do much about it, just wait to see what really happens. These things used to upset me, but it doesn't help. It'll all come out in the wash. Let's just wait and see.

[Benroon]

Exactly, but people love to scaremonger. These changes get issued every couple of years (usually just before Christmas), and initiate a lot of discussion. They rarely turn out to be anywhere near as bad as some people seem to wish. The dual tax agreement has been mentioned from the outset, but it suits many to ignore the fact.

We can't do much about it, just wait to see what really happens. These things used to upset me, but it doesn't help. It'll all come out in the wash. Let's just wait and see.

Who's scaremongering? this is a forum to discuss stuff, thats how it works right? If you don't want people to post, just say it. Clearly that might explain why the numbers are so low on here. When did this change get issued last? whats the relevance with Christmas? Who would wish it to be bad? Isn't the purpose of a forum to try to help each other? As for 'can't do much about it' isn't the point of discussion to allow for mitigation? Presumably you're an expert in Thailands tax self assessment?

So the dual tax agreement has been mentioned, so can you give us a blow by blow breakdown as to how that's going to play out please, especially when it comes to investment funds, house sale funds, inheritance funds, SIPP funds, none of which will be taxed at source, plus the impact of resident versus non resident status on the agreement - we're all ears!

Still I'm sure 'wait and see' is going to prove to be invaluable advice for posters on here 11 weeks away from implentation.

[Benroon]

Maybe I am missing something regarding retirees living off pension income. Are not all pensions taxed at source ? They certainly appear to be in the U.K. The Inland Revenue issue a statement each year to all tax payers of gross income along with the tax deducted.
Would it not simply be a case of printing off this statement as evidence of the tax payed ? Otherwise what is the point of double taxation agreement if they are going to tax you again ?

Yes if you're living off the state pension alone you won't even make the first tax bracket, government pensions are liable for tax at source (subject to thresholds) but private ones are not if you have declared yourself non resident. Most people here don't even know they're non resident according to HMRC rules.

However there are numerous revenue streams people use to fund their lives in thailand, not everyone is a pensioner so there are numerous other aspects to consider, forearmed is forewarned as they say.

Still, information or discussion is frowned upon it seems so I guess it's every man for himself!

[caller]

I have 3 sources of income. 2 are taxed at source and tax paid annually will be available from the revenue. No real problem there for me.

My 3rd source I declare to the revenue, via self-assessment (with evidence). I then receive an annual statement of the tax I have paid. So no real problem there.

I am just curious how they reconcile this with the fact the UK and Thailand tax years differ, as well as how it fits into to my annual extension renewal, each August. But I suspect that for pensions, if this all comes into play, that they will just require one-off evidence that tax is paid at source.

[Big Boy]

After the farce of how we had to prove the legitimacy of our pensions, my only fear is what evidence the revenue department will need to prove that my P60 is genuine.

[nanyang]

Maybe I am missing something regarding retirees living off pension income. Are not all pensions taxed at source ? They certainly appear to be in the U.K. The Inland Revenue issue a statement each year to all tax payers of gross income along with the tax deducted.
Would it not simply be a case of printing off this statement as evidence of the tax payed ? Otherwise what is the point of double taxation agreement if they are going to tax you again ?

They won't.