A question for small business owners in Thailand

Post by **GLCQuantum** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 9:33 pm

Hi Pagey,

Have been coming to Thailand for 12 years and have been settled here in Hua Hin for 3.

The way I see it is if you can afford to be without the 60k expected salary for 2 years and not worry about it you have no problems.

I live here on minimal wages yet I would still not begin to think about returning to my home country to earn a much higher salary at this time.

There probably will be a point in time that I have to go back or go somewhere else to attain security but not for a while I hope , so what I'm saying is if you can afford to semi retire here and are not living on month to month wages I'm sure you will be a happy camper.

Post by **caller** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 9:41 pm

Pete,

The Grand Hotel could fit the bill as well - its just off the Petchkasem Road, with a car park/market seperating it from Sao Palao(?) hospital.

Its a bit run down and really needs a major refurb.

Post by **GLCQuantum** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 9:53 pm

Caller,

Have just taken the Grand Hotel at a very reasonable price.

Eventually I bartered them down from 1,280 baht to 80 baht.

Apparantly I have to do all refurbishments myself, which when calculated comes to an astonishing 1,000,000,000 baht.

Shall try to pay it at 10 baht a month.

Bank manager is not happy

Post by **PeteC** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 10:01 pm

caller wrote:Pete,

The Grand Hotel could fit the bill as well - its just off the Petchkasem Road, with a car park/market seperating it from Sao Palao(?) hospital.

Its a bit run down and really needs a major refurb.

That makes more sense to me if it's on about 8 rai? The Hilton sits pretty by the beach regardless if Hilton, or their new buy out corp. owns it. Seems foolish to kill a golden goose unless another big corp., is making love to them, and if that were the case, it wouldn't be advertised for sale.

Also, HH is booming and growing in all aspects at present and to sell a hotel now seems to me that something is wrong with the place and the current people just don't have the cash to fix it and compete, or the Thai owners are getting old and just want to get out.

Interesting to see which place we're talking about. As the sale offer is being published, it shouldn't be long before we know for sure. Pete

Post by **Pagey** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 12:47 am

QLC Qantum : The 60k would make my retirement a lot easier and more comfortable, or 30k or 40k, depends on how long I decide to stay here. However, if I buy a business and it makes 6-10 k a year then in 10 years I will be in the same position or better because I would be able to sell the business for 2 or 3 times annual earnings.

Bradders : It's a pity you are not in Hua Hin over the next 3 weeks 'cos I am sure your enthusiasm would rub off on me ! Look at my previous threads on cost of living with good contributions from the regulars, Lomu,Buks etc. It depends what you want. 2 years ago I rented a 2 bed 2 storey town house with big balcony near the Grand hotel for 10,000 Baht per month or 2k GBP p.a. A bar girl will rent a room for about 3 or 4 k per month. I am looking at buying a cheap studio condo to start with or renting and I will how it goes. I will be careful for a year as calculations on paper don't always work in real life. A/c can be expensive if you have it on all day/night. And if you like the beer and girls 2 or 3 times a week then 12k a year will not be enough (I am quoting a previous post now!) not speaking from experience

However, I won't be paying more than 10,000 Bht per month I hope. I bedroom will suffice for me.
Cheers Bradders

Ideacon : Sensible positive advice without being reckless from someone who seems to have succeeded in LOS and enjoys life here.

Post by **gooze** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 9:52 am

Just to confirm one fact as one or two of you have hypothosised it is in fact the Grand Hotel that is up for sale at around about the 700 million mark.

The Hilton would be astronomically exspensive to buy and the price would have to be in $ for anyone to understand it.

The Grand I beleive has been on the market quite some time.

Post by **lomuamart** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 10:36 am

Bradders,
It's not the cost of living that's doubled, it's the amount of money Imm want to see that you have for your visa, that has.
Prices are certainly going up here. I'd estimate that we're spending 20% more, for the same, than we were doing 5 odd years ago. That may be a bit on the high side and it's all relative - 20% of nothing's, nothing - but as the Baht strengthens and fuel prices continue to rise, inflation is inevitable.
It's the visa extension requirements that bother me from a financial point of view. As I've posted before, Imm are not going to issue me with a marriage extension unless I bring the income into Thailand. Call me bloodyminded, but as a matter of principle, I don't see that Imm should determine where my money is banked. As long as I'm able to demonstrate that I have the amount necessary to satisfy their financial requirements, surely that should be sufficient? Unfortunately, it seems not to be though.
This leaves me with the options of either caving in and doing the transfers, or waiting until next year when I'm 50 and going for a retirement extension. The 65k monthly income I can show and it seems, for now, that it dosn't have to be transferred here, but what happens a few years down the road if Imm decide to up the amount to 100K a month? I'll be pretty much stuffed then.
It sometimes seems to me to be a simple case over here of how far the authorities think they can push the financial requirements for long staying farangs without causing too much negative impact on the economy. Each time the goalposts move, there will be casulties, but they're not sufficiently large enough in numbers yet to cause the powers that be any concern.
Maybe I'm just having a "bad hair day", but I don't see the future here as being as certain as it was when I first came over - at least given my circumstances.
Now, where's that beer? I might as well have a few and just forget about it all

Post by **Pagey** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 5:01 pm

Well its Friday here, the last day of my weekend ( In Saudi weekend is Thurs and Fri). I am going to lay by the pool near my apartment (there is 16 pools on my compound) to top up my tan for when I stroll on the beach to Kao Takieb and back every other day. While I am there my room boy will make my bed, wash my pots, clean my bathroom and generally tidy up. I will shove all my laundry in a bag and in 2 days it will come back washed and ironed on hangers. Later I may order a 3 course meal to be delivered to my apartment for 3 quid.
Then at 4 o clock I will stroll to one of the 3 bars and drink lots of extra strong home brew for a pound a pint.

So why do I want to leave all this ?

Well the 2 businesses are one offs and will not come on the market very ofen and I don't want to miss out. One with a brand name, if successful, would cost 3 times as much as I know what the current owner paid to set it up. I don't myself frequent either of these type of establishments but it is purely a business transaction.

So JW,Bucks, Barry etc, when we meet for that drink I will tell you what both businesses are so you can maybe give me a different point of view.

I am worried about the initial moving with little knowledge and no support (apart from this board of course

). When I came to Saudi my company did everything so that made it easy.

Last day at work tomorrow then fly tomorrow night on Etihad via Abu Dhabi. Land in BKK at 18.25 Sunday then hope to get a taxi straight to HH.
See you all soon.

Post by **PeteC** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 5:32 pm

lomuamart wrote: Call me bloodyminded, but as a matter of principle, I don't see that Imm should determine where my money is banked

May be of small comfort as announced today that in 5 years time, foreign banks will be allowed to open branches throughout the country. Pete

Post by **barrys** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 11:34 pm

Have a good flight Pagey.
Look forward to meeting you when you get here.

Post by **bradders** » Sat Jul 14, 2007 1:46 am

Pagey wrote:Well its Friday here, the last day of my weekend ( In Saudi weekend is Thurs and Fri). I am going to lay by the pool near my apartment (there is 16 pools on my compound) to top up my tan for when I stroll on the beach to Kao Takieb and back every other day. While I am there my room boy will make my bed, wash my pots, clean my bathroom and generally tidy up. I will shove all my laundry in a bag and in 2 days it will come back washed and ironed on hangers. Later I may order a 3 course meal to be delivered to my apartment for 3 quid.
Then at 4 o clock I will stroll to one of the 3 bars and drink lots of extra strong home brew for a pound a pint.

So why do I want to leave all this ?

Well the 2 businesses are one offs and will not come on the market very ofen and I don't want to miss out. One with a brand name, if successful, would cost 3 times as much as I know what the current owner paid to set it up. I don't myself frequent either of these type of establishments but it is purely a business transaction.

So JW,Bucks, Barry etc, when we meet for that drink I will tell you what both businesses are so you can maybe give me a different point of view.

I am worried about the initial moving with little knowledge and no support (apart from this board of course ). When I came to Saudi my company did everything so that made it easy.

Last day at work tomorrow then fly tomorrow night on Etihad via Abu Dhabi. Land in BKK at 18.25 Sunday then hope to get a taxi straight to HH.
See you all soon.

Hi Pagey!!
According to your posting date and time there's a good chance you'll see/read this before your flight to HH (?)

Quote: So why do I want to leave all this ?

Well Pagey you're certainly being pampered there in Saudi - good tax free salary - cheap beer & food - serviced swimming pools - laundry service - etc.

Do I sense you're having second thoughts about relocating to HH?
Worried & apprehensive about committing to the move?

Need a reminder my friend WHY you've come this far? Have you forgotten all the time that you've spent .........

Thinking about living in HH?
The time spent researching the two (one being "unique") business opportunities there?
The hours working on your spreadsheets?
The quality of life available beyond generating 'additional' bucks - and no one (or many) 'special' in your life to share your spoils with?

The very fact your started this thread - now into page 3 - suggests you're more than half way there - just need a bit of a nudge maybe??

Saudi may be able to offer you certain privilages but by your own admission Pagey it's not perfect (e.g. boss as an example) - tell me a place that is? I'm sure HH will test your resliance and character in more ways than one (ask any expat in HH or anywhere!) but what price freedom my friend? - being your own boss? - making your own decisions? Doesn't that sound an attractive alternative??

When you arrive in HH you'll have friends and supporters around you - maybe they can't do 'everything or as much' as your company did when you arrived in Saudi but I bet the likes of JW, Barry, Bucks etc will do their best to help you on your way!!

IF - I repeat - IF - one of these businesses check's out ok just "go for it" Pagey - you mention in your post such opportunities don't come up that often! The years fly by and I've gotta feeling you'll be a happier man in HH for the next two year than living a somewhat 'lonely'(lady wise) life in Saudi. Money's important - but it 'aint everything! Especially if you have enough to be comfy and get by on.

Safe & pleasant journey's - enjoy your break - and let's hope you make the right decision!!!

Look forward to hearing how you get on......

Good Luck Pal !!!

bradders

ozuncle · Post by **ozuncle** » Sat Jul 14, 2007 11:04 am

A stupid question perhaps, but does buying a business automatically give you a visa?

If so, what sort of visa?

Post by **Mack111** » Sat Jul 14, 2007 11:08 am

think it might but there some crazy rule that the biz got to be millions of baht and you must employ X amount of Thai's

i'm sure some of the guys will no better

Post by **Pagey** » Sat Jul 14, 2007 12:53 pm

Bradders : yes I am worried and having second thoughts. I have asked for advice and I am taking it. The red tape and visa problems and work permit issues are stumbling blocks that I will seek more advice about when I get there.

By the way, who said there are no lady friends in Saudi ?

Just a couple more hours to go at work and I'm spending most of them surfing !!

Post by **barrys** » Sat Jul 14, 2007 12:55 pm

Buying/owning a business does not give you any right to a visa.

The procedure is as follows (at least it's the one I went through):

I first formed the company and started trading - I was allowed to be the owner of the company but not permitted to work. I could, however, give a certain amount of "training/instruction" to the staff.
So anytime I went anywhere business-related, I took my wife (one of the company's staff) with me as a "trainee".

Visa and work permit are then 2 totally separate issues.
You first need a non-immigrant "B" visa, which is most easily obtained before coming to Thailand.
They are apparently easy to get at the Thai consulates in Cardiff (Cardief) and Dublin - they don't require any supporting documentation as far as I know.
However, it is possible to get one from here, issued legally in Bangkok.

Once you have your non-imm B, you can then apply for a work permit under the following conditions:
Your company must be at least a THB 2 million Thai-registered limited company.
You must be the only farang director of the company (otherwise a work permit has to be requested for each one, thus multiplying the number of Thai employees required and raising the value of the company you must have accordingly)
You must have at least 4 Thai employees registered with the authorities here and paying social insurance, i.e. 10% of their gross pay, divided equally between employer and employee
You must be employed by the company at a min. salary (in my case) of THB 50 k per month (the min. figure varies depending on the country you're from).

Having got through all this, you can then apply for a 1 year visa (which means you only have to report every 90 days) after 3 months, as long as all the social insurance contributions and your own personal income tax (7% = THB 3,500 per month) has been fully paid up for that period.

QED

If you try to do all this yourself, it will take a very long time, because on the frequent occasions you have to go the authority (in Prachuabkirikhan) you are likely to find they also need this and that document, which you weren't told about the time before!

I chose the convenient route and got a law/accountants office in HH to do everything for me.
The result was that I only had to go to Prachuab twice (interview and to collect the work permit) with someone from the law office and did not have to wait around for hours.
I paid law office and "fast-track" fees totalling THB 25,000 to get my work permit and a one-year visa and was very happy with the service.
If anyone wants to know which office I used, please PM me - I can recommend them.