House Rental - Will Owner's Greed Be Suicidal?

[Jim]

Big Boy, sorry I didnt make myself clear. What I was trying to say is that we're always open to offers, no matter what the advertised rate, but that you're less likely to haggle the price down in peak season. You're quite right, the house is sunk cost so we're happy to take what we can get in rentals rather than have the place empty.

[Big Boy]

gooze wrote:

The OP said he had looked via some agents.

I think you have misunderstood, and have taken the word agent as meaning a bona-fide estate agent. I need to qualify my use of the word agent. This somebody who is renting on behalf of the owner. As I said, my daughter tends to use her (Thai) friends network, many of who are acting on behalf of an absent Farang.

and

I do not know how much holiday per year the OP gets but for me when i used to go on holiday if I had to worry about 100 pounds on accomadation I would go somwhere I could better afford.

Do some overtime and stop whinging about 100 quid you cheap Charlie. Could understand it if you were renting for 3 months or more.

Ouch ................... no worries, we're all entitled to our opinion. You are probably one of those who live in Hua Hin, and use your Thai residency to gain the Thai rate when visiting National Parks etc. However, I don't consider you to be a cheap Charlie - just careful with your money.

I have read many times on this forum how much people pay for their rented properties - even so, I don't mind paying a little extra for my short term rental. What I don't like is sheer profiteering at my expense. Many ex-pats have boasted how they pay less than 10,000 per month for their long term leases - again, I don't consider them to be cheap Charlies. They are simply paying the going rate. Why then, when I seek out a property at a little more than the going rate due to my short stay status, do you consider me a cheap Charlie? Or is this a term that you apply to everybody who rents a property rather than buying?

and

I would go somwhere I could better afford

Have you actually investigated how much the average holiday maker spends per month during a visit to Hua Hin and then compared it to what the average ex-pat spends? I think, unless you are somebody that has money to burn, and likes wasting it, you'll be spending a fraction of what I spend during my visit next month.

Jim wrote:

Big Boy, sorry I didnt make myself clear. What I was trying to say is that we're always open to offers, no matter what the advertised rate, but that you're less likely to haggle the price down in peak season. You're quite right, the house is sunk cost so we're happy to take what we can get in rentals rather than have the place empty.

That is my point exactly. For some reason this year, the people with empty properties in Soi Sarawat and Soi Grand are not prepared to negotiate - its 3 months or nothing. I accept that I have been branded as a cheap Charlie, but I am not going to pay 3 months rental for a property that I only need for 1 month. This stubborness is almost certainly going to see these properties remain empty during the low season.

[big jimmy]

Just a minor point Big Boy , I have no interest in the renting of property in HH whatsoever.....but if you have a Thai daughter, and presumably a Thai wife.... and if you love HH so much..... why have you not bought property here ?

[Big Boy]

Just a minor point Big Boy , I have no interest in the renting of property in HH whatsoever.....but if you have a Thai daughter, and presumably a Thai wife.... and if you love HH so much..... why have you not bought property here ?

I am waiting to retire there - hopefully in 2 years time. At that point I will most definitely by buying a property................................ Or maybe I'm just a cheap Charlie who doesn't want to part with his money

I've actually arranged for JW to give me the tour when I'm there next month, just to get a real feel for what's on offer.

[gooze]

BIG BOY:

You obviously love HH. You have stated that you wish to retire here shortly.I do appreciate that the average one month tourist spends more than the full timers. By the way I rent long term and that costs me 15000 per month.

I think you took my cheap charlie comment slightly out of context. My point was primarily you are only here for one month pay a little extra and have better accomadation. I also agree with you that the Thai concept of leaving properties empty is bizare.

Three years ago you could buy a place behind the Grand for under 1 million not now things change prices go up.

Didnt mean to offend you my apologies if I did.

I would also point out there are a large number of people who live here who probably spend as much as you per month. There is a mythology that all people who live here survive on 50,000 per month. I wish I could.

good luck anyway.

[Big Boy]

gooze,

No offence taken, I hope you realised most of my comments were light hearted.

The truth of the matter is that I really enjoy living in Soi Sarawat or Soi Grand. I like the mix of Thai and Farang there, and have always had good neighbours. It is not the money that has been bothering me, it is the fact that they will only rent for 3 months not 1. This means that I have to stay elsewhere (actually this time, I've got a much better location - don't know about the house), and they have an empty property that is not earning for them.

I am well aware of the way prices are going up over there - the only saving grace is that if any potential Thai property that I might consider goes up by 1000 Pounds, my UK property is increasing by 5000 Pounds, or more.

[Rider]

I have to agree with H2O on this one, Hua Hin is atrocious for finding decent and cheap digs for the medium term. This is one reason I visit HH much less.
It's quite easy to see that the infrastructure of having the places hasn't sprang up at the same rate as people are visiting.
I've been to other Thai cities/towns that actually have much better rental availability for folk.

[matthew80]

Spent the month of July in a very nice "gated community house" for what I think was about 35000 baht. My only issues were related to utilities, and the odd critters that came out of their dark crevices at night-time but otherwise, I learned quite quickly that if you want something decent now in Hua Hin, you have to be prepared to pay "tourist prices", even in low season. Thanks to JW and gang for all their help! We had a great time!

[klikster]

And when it rains it doesnt flood!!!!!

Riiiiight!

And it seldom stops raining.

[canthai]

As a property owner in Hua Hin I would rather have my home sit empty than agree to a substantially discounted rate. We have to protect our investment. Short term rentals, three months and less, typically are seasoned holiday makers who respect the home they are using temporarily. Long term renters usually will modify the home decor to their liking. I do not want someone attaching pictures to the walls, painting rooms, and partying with a bunch of locals. If my home sits vacant I am not too concerned.

[hogus]

If you rent out your property, it doesn't matter so much, whether you'll give it to short-term renters or long-term renters...both can be good or bad guys, IMO.

The only difference is, that short-term renters are tourists or pensioners (which are staying during European winter-time) mostly, and compare the prices with hotel/guesthouse-prices only.
So they’re more willing to pay a higher rental for some months, perhaps, because it's not so a bad business in their eyes.

Long-term renters are insiders mostly, and know normally about the market prices for renting a house. So you can't get double or triple rental easily, as from short-timers!

The positive effect is, that you can earn in may be 5 months enough money with short-timers (if you can find enough of them), so that it doesn't matter if you rent your property out for the rest of the year, and may be it will preserve in good condition, too.
The negative effect is, that social problems with the locals can rise up, because they just can afford "normal" prices to rent a house.... and it will be more and more difficult for them to find a house for rent under normal conditions.

[JW]

Hi Matthew80,

Pleased you enjoyed the stay! See you next time.

[johnnyk]

I'm renting my house to a friend at this time.
He wants to stay for up to a year or more and I'm quite happy with that.
OK, I could get more $$$ per week or per month but to me its a win:

He's someone I know
He's not a boozer or smoker
I don't have to hunt for new punters every 2 weeks or so
I don't have to rent to people whom I don't know
There's no bother with reservations, schedules and hand-holding
No arranging check-in check out and cleaning
One person and his ways are easier on your house than 20 different people with 20 different ways of living
I know how much rental income I'm going to get over the year.

[buksida]

hogus put it well, it seems there are two schools of landlords - essentially those that need/want the additional rental income and those that don't. The two schools of tenants are those on holiday with money to burn and those that live here permanently.

If a house can make the same in 3 months as another can in a year then all the better because there really is a short term window to make that "holiday rental" income - there are far less tourists now days than there used to be, regardless of TAT's bogus stats.

It does get annoying though when there a plenty of empty places that landlords don't want to rent out as they're only after the tourist dollar. As said above the farangs take a little more care about their properties and don't want packs of teenagers in there and the Thais are only thinking of tomorrow as usual.

A far safer bet for the steady rental revenue is the long termers - having moved myself several times over the past year due to asshole landlords or asshole neighbours its not something I enjoy so would be happy to plonk down a years rent if the price and property were right.

Its a give and take situation both from the landlord and the tenant and all are different - naturally I'd love to be affluent enough to have a "spare" house sitting empty not to have to worry about income but such is life!

[Guess]

He's someone I know
He's not a boozer or smoker
I don't have to hunt for new punters every 2 weeks or so
I don't have to rent to people whom I don't know
There's no bother with reservations, schedules and hand-holding
No arranging check-in check out and cleaning
One person and his ways are easier on your house than 20 different people with 20 different ways of living
I know how much rental income I'm going to get over the year.

These are exactly the sort of things you need to consider as a landlord. I was renting out my house in England for two years while spending most of my time in Chon Buri or traveling the length and breadth of Thailand.

The rules for the landlord should apply here also. You have to look at the whole picture for the length of time you wish to rent your house out.

One thing that I found was that it was sometimes and financial benefit to let out the house on a short term. I got nearly treble the monthly rent for a six week let. Of course you need to check the tenants out and hold a hefty deposit. However if a reliable tenants with an existing track record or someone that is directly or indirectly known to you it is worth taking the standard or even reduced rent if they wish to stay for a year or more.

I don't think I was greedy by taking the treble short term rent as the house was empty for about six weeks either side. You always have to clean the house out no matter what the tenant has promised you. When the day comes they just want to get out.

What it is all about is occupancy rates and what hassle you are prepared to go through dealing with tenants. The hassle I mean is not connected with the utility bills which can be all paid by a motorcycle taxi driver in one morning for a 200 BHT service charge which is taken from the deposit.

The hassle I am referring to is calls at odd hours to ask stupid questions and complain that things are not working when the contract explicitly states that it is the responsibility of the tenant. The other hassle is getting the rent. The law in Thailand is much more favorable to the landlord than in most of the western countries but they still have a period where they can remain in your property without paying rent. You then have the hassle of going down the official legal route or employing a senior MIB to get things moving quickly and pay the premium.

Basically it is all down to common sense, a little knowledge of the current market status and the ability to use a calculator. There are no hard and fast rules.

I have found that some Thai owners or Thais acting with full autonomy for a farang in law get the idea that the best thing to do is look at the rental income of the most expensive house on the estate and stick at that until some mug comes along and pays. In a tenants market like now in Thailand that is not necessary. Most landlords will see sense if you make them a firm offer and wave the cash under there noses. If the refuse they risk the house remaining empty. Every day is lost forever.