Global Warming/Climate Change 2

Discussion on science, nature and technology across the globe.
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STEVE G
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Re: Global Warming 2

Post by STEVE G »

although i enjoy these debates, the fact is nobody is gonna convince me that the whole GW affair is anything other than a scam to control & fleece the populations with scare tactics.
This is one of the biggest problems; some people are unwilling to change their minds whatever the evidence, as you have just admitted.
I believe this is happening but if there is an article in New Scientist, or some similar publication stating that the physics has been misunderstood for the last hundred odd years, I'd be the first to admit that I was wrong.
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Re: Global Warming 2

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STEVE G wrote: This is one of the biggest problems; some people are unwilling to change their minds whatever the evidence, as you have just admitted.
eh? what did i admit? :shock:
& what evidence would that be then?????


I believe this is happening but if there is an article in New Scientist, or some similar publication stating that the physics has been misunderstood for the last hundred odd years, I'd be the first to admit that I was wrong.
aw gawd :cry: not the old 'rewriting of the laws of physics' line again :roll:
are they really relevant if you provide false data & manipulated figures? :? :tsk:
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Re: Global Warming 2

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eh? what did i admit?
That nothing would convince you.
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Re: Global Warming 2

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STEVE G wrote: That nothing would convince you.
the truth will always convince me :|

STEVE G wrote:Yes, well suppose it would be a bit much to expect the Daily Mail to re-write the laws of physics to match their conclussions!
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... nised.html

do they really need to?
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Re: Global Warming 2

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not the old 'rewriting of the laws of physics' line again...are they really relevant if you provide false data & manipulated figures?
If we allow that atmospheric C02 levels are rising, then you need to change the known physics for a rise in temperature not to happen, surely that is only logical.
If anyone can prove that C02 levels are not rising, then we can live with the physics and stay at the same temperature!
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Re: Global Warming 2

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Cato scholars have been particularly energetic in promoting the Climategate scandal. Last year, private e-mails of climate scientists at the University of East Anglia, in England, were mysteriously leaked, and their exchanges appeared to suggest a willingness to falsify data in order to buttress the idea that global warming is real. In the two weeks after the e-mails went public, one Cato scholar gave more than twenty media interviews trumpeting the alleged scandal. But five independent inquiries have since exonerated the researchers, and nothing was found in their e-mails or data to discredit the scientific consensus on global warming.

Nevertheless, the controversy succeeded in spreading skepticism about climate change. Even though the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration recently issued a report concluding that the evidence for global warming is unequivocal, more Americans are convinced than at any time since 1997 that scientists have exaggerated the seriousness of global warming. The Kochs promote this statistic on their company’s Web site but do not mention the role that their funding has played in fostering such doubt.

In a 2002 memo, the Republican political consultant Frank Luntz wrote that so long as “voters believe there is no consensus about global warming within the scientific community” the status quo would prevail. The key for opponents of environmental reform, he said, was to question the science—a public-relations strategy that the tobacco industry used effectively for years to forestall regulation. The Kochs have funded many sources of environmental skepticism, such as the Heritage Foundation, which has argued that “scientific facts gathered in the past 10 years do not support the notion of catastrophic human-made warming.” The brothers have given money to more obscure groups, too, such as the Independent Women’s Forum, which opposes the presentation of global warming as a scientific fact in American public schools. Until 2008, the group was run by Nancy Pfotenhauer, a former lobbyist for Koch Industries. Mary Beth Jarvis, a vice-president of a Koch subsidiary, is on the group’s board.

Naomi Oreskes, a professor of history and science studies at the University of California, San Diego, is the co-author of “Merchants of Doubt,” a new book that chronicles various attempts by American industry to manipulate public opinion on science. She noted that the Kochs, as the heads of “a company with refineries and pipelines,” have “a lot at stake.” She added, “If the answer is to phase out fossil fuels, a different group of people are going to be making money, so we shouldn’t be surprised that they’re fighting tooth and nail.”

David Koch told New York that he was unconvinced that global warming has been caused by human activity. Even if it has been, he said, the heating of the planet will be beneficial, resulting in longer growing seasons in the Northern Hemisphere. “The Earth will be able to support enormously more people because far greater land area will be available to produce food,” he said.
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2010 ... z0zr9rzNbu

Fox editor urged climate skepticism

Fox News Washington managing editor Bill Sammon sent an e-mail to staff last December offering guidance on how to handle the climate debate, three weeks after the Climategate scandal broke and in the midst of the Copenhagen climate summit.

“Given the controversy over the veracity of climate change data,” Sammon wrote, “we should refrain from asserting that the planet has warmed (or cooled) in any given period without IMMEDIATELY pointing out that such theories are based upon data that critics have called into question. It is not our place as journalists to assert such notions as facts, especially as this debate intensifies.”
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1210/46409.html
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Re: Global Warming 2

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Fox News Washington managing editor Bill Sammon sent an e-mail to staff last December offering guidance on how to handle the climate debate, three weeks after the Climategate scandal broke and in the midst of the Copenhagen climate summit.

“Given the controversy over the veracity of climate change data,” Sammon wrote, “we should refrain from asserting that the planet has warmed (or cooled) in any given period without IMMEDIATELY pointing out that such theories are based upon data that critics have called into question. It is not our place as journalists to assert such notions as facts, especially as this debate intensifies.
Sounds pretty "fair and balanced" to me... :duck:
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Re: Global Warming 2

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Regardless of weather the amount of damage we are doing is of any real significance the fact that there is so much needless pollution bothers me. I certainly am no scientist and can't keep up with the ever changing data we recieve but we could probably cut down emissions by 25% quite easily if anyone gave a shit. Needless (lazy) polution is a severe dissapointment for the human race, especially if when the time comes we all find out that really we DID need to cut down emissions and we DID need to listen to those 'crazy scientists' but it's all hindsight as...now the world's F*****d
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Re: Global Warming 2

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Where are the conspiracy theorists when you need them?
Here is a member of the famed Rockefeller dynasty fighting climate change legislation:

Republicans attempt to stifle action on climate change
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2 ... ate-change
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Re: Global Warming 2

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STEVE G wrote:Where are the conspiracy theorists when you need them?
Here is a member of the famed Rockefeller dynasty fighting climate change legislation
:o :D

Although it did only say he wanted to 'delay' EPA action on climate change, Steve. Maybe he is upset that the bill did not contain anything on 'population change' that his family have been fighting for, over the past couple of centuries. If all else fails, slip it in with some legislation when no-one's looking, maybe the CT's were right all along about the real motives behind climate change :wink:

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Re: Global Warming 2

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STEVE G wrote:Where are the conspiracy theorists when you need them?
You mean the environmental theorists who are conspiring to bury us in taxes and tariffs and turn us all into carbon criminals?
STEVE G wrote:Here is a member of the famed Rockefeller dynasty fighting climate change legislation:
Not quite, steve. He's on your team. Do a search for 'rockefeller global warming'.
E-Dork wrote:...polution is a severe dissapointment for the human race, especially if when the time comes we all find out that really we DID need to cut down emissions and we DID need to listen to those 'crazy scientists' but it's all hindsight as...now the world's F*****d
Earth to earth, ashes to ashes, dust to dust. The planet will recover but not if it's ecosystems are overwhelmed by mountains of plastic, chemicals and pollutants, including radiation from U.S. and Israeli nuclear WMDs in the form of depleted uranium. The shrill voices shrieking 'the end of the world is nigh' due to GW, are the very same criminals profiting from war, the pharma 'sickness industry' and toxic food, with which they sicken us. Monsanto is buying up all the world's seed supply to force us to eat their untested GM foods, ending thousands of years of diversity. It's naive to think this corrupt class of money-worshippers give a damn about us or the planet. Only in as much as they can profit by it. 'Science' is just another means to them achieving their ends and IMO people are daft to be taken in by their ludicrous posturing.

Solving the problem is easy. Lock up every owner and CEOs whose industries pollute. They would put their heads together and solve the pollution problem in a heartbeat. But they won't do that will they? All the trillions given to banker bandits could have revitalized the green energy market, clothed, fed and housed every person on the planet and been directed towards giving us clean air, water and food.

Stop the phoney wars of conquest, redirect polluting industries to be non-polluting, restore the rule of law and good governance and return the land back to people who can take better care of it. Most of all, end the cult of money and the debt-based money system. Replace it with 'social money'.

As long as 300 parasitic mega-wealthy families at the top see the rest of us as 'useless eaters' and numbers on a balance sheet, I agree with you. 'the world's F*****d'
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STEVE G
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Re: Global Warming 2

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'Science' is just another means to them achieving their ends and IMO people are daft to be taken in by their ludicrous posturing.
And what of the hundred odd year old physics; are they flawed?
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Re: Global Warming 2

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STEVE G wrote: And what of the hundred odd year old physics; are they flawed?
:roll:
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Re: Global Warming 2

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I take it the answer the answer is no then?
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Re: Global Warming 2

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STEVE G wrote:And what of the hundred odd year old physics; are they flawed?
Clearly, for many people they are. There have been too many incidences of dodgy dealings to trust those who make the pronouncements. If you site all your temperature gauges next to cities and heat sources, you will certainly get scientific 'proof' of warming. If you exclude Russian stations that don't conform to your desired outcome, you will get even more 'proof'. If you present discredited hockey stick graphs and attempt to 'hide the decline', then don't complain when people stop trusting you. If your livelihood is dependent on proving the science, then you will understandably have a bias towards data that keeps you in employment. And if you are presently sat in a 20' snowdrift and remembering that the warmistas said they were a thing of the past, then don't be surprised if you experience some 'now you're taking the p**s' incredulity, when you turn around and say 'Oh, this is also due to GW'.

It wasn't Oil or energy companies doing these things.

Well intentioned scientists, like well-intentioned doctors, don't decide the policy. They merely provide the pretext. Tell me how the previous problems I listed will be solved by carbon trading? How much is the carbon footprint of a Tomahawk missile? If I exchange the carbon for a few acres of forest in the Amazon can I still go ahead and decimate a city?

These criminals should all be swinging from branches. Bankers, warmongers, racketeers, venal corporations. The misery and mayhem they have caused around the world is beyond words. The corruption at the highest levels is huge. Those creating these scams are not concerned elder statesmen, filled with concern for their fellow man and taking responsibility for the stewardship of the planet. Those people are long gone in a puff of '9-11' smoke, replaced by racketeering gangsters.

Why are you trusting them? What is it about their track record on the stewardship of the planet that gives you such a high degree of confidence in their pronouncements?

They are evil corrupt men, laughing at the millions of 'sucker-dupes' who, shiney-eyed, swallow the latest money-making wheeze to 'save the planet', even while they are busily destroying it. Not until the last animal is killed, the last tree remains, the last human has been stripped of his or her savings and dignity, will these blood-suckers stop.

Show me some evidence to the contrary.
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