Above two posts are correct, I'll try and dig out that ATol article.
Basically there are a disproportionate number of MPs in Issan compared to the south, it seems like it is calculated geographically and not demographically - a major advantage to TRT/PPP who have monopolised on this.
PAD press release
The role of the PAD "guards" seems to bear many similaities to the role of AH's SA as the enforement arm of a movment for whihc aims for permaanet dictatoship. Demcractic parties do not need para milittray enforemenet arms.The role of the PAD "guards" seems to bear many similarities to the role of AH's SA as the enforcement arm of a movement for which aims for permanent dictatorship. Democratic parties do not need para military enforcement arms.
Posted this elsewhere but maybe it should be here instead!
Not taking sides but thinking outside of the box.
The army has historically been loyal to the monarchy. This government is historically loyal to Thaksin. The army has asked Somchai to dissolve government, his answer is to impose a state of emergency at Suvarnabuhmi and Don Muang and tell the army to stay in their barracks. So now we have a faceoff between the monarchy and the government. If the army wins, as Buksida says we have another two years of military rule, not forward thinking but the last time is was not really a problem for anyone other than business Farangh2Farangh slowed down. Then the country has a new election or selects a new form of governing body. Maybe by then they will have found a way to counter vote buying!
Now let’s suppose that the government wins, the first thing to happen is that they will now have little opposition and Khun Thaksin will be pardoned or whatever and will return triumphantly to his home country. Now we have one man who has proved to be dangerous and no respecter of the laws or morals and principles, except of course by his citizens! But now he will be even more powerful, even more powerful than the army and the monarchy that he effectively will have defeated. As Buksida quite rightly points out, those holding a UK passport will be the first to be effected as he wreaks his revenge. And what of the monarchy, the lesse majest laws will most probably be drastically reduced in power; Thaksin has already fallen foul of those and does not like them. Thaksin will by then be so arrogant that he will want to become a president/dictatotor and will attempt to force the monarchy, if they have not already done so voluntarily, to abdicate. Bananas and republics spring to mind.
Oh and of course Thaksin has always wanted to live in Hua Hin and own a golf course here, if he gets his way there will be an empty property on the Petkasem road with its own local golf course under the management of a famous brewery, the owners of which by then, will no doubt be staunch Thaksin supporters.
Not taking sides but thinking outside of the box.
The army has historically been loyal to the monarchy. This government is historically loyal to Thaksin. The army has asked Somchai to dissolve government, his answer is to impose a state of emergency at Suvarnabuhmi and Don Muang and tell the army to stay in their barracks. So now we have a faceoff between the monarchy and the government. If the army wins, as Buksida says we have another two years of military rule, not forward thinking but the last time is was not really a problem for anyone other than business Farangh2Farangh slowed down. Then the country has a new election or selects a new form of governing body. Maybe by then they will have found a way to counter vote buying!
Now let’s suppose that the government wins, the first thing to happen is that they will now have little opposition and Khun Thaksin will be pardoned or whatever and will return triumphantly to his home country. Now we have one man who has proved to be dangerous and no respecter of the laws or morals and principles, except of course by his citizens! But now he will be even more powerful, even more powerful than the army and the monarchy that he effectively will have defeated. As Buksida quite rightly points out, those holding a UK passport will be the first to be effected as he wreaks his revenge. And what of the monarchy, the lesse majest laws will most probably be drastically reduced in power; Thaksin has already fallen foul of those and does not like them. Thaksin will by then be so arrogant that he will want to become a president/dictatotor and will attempt to force the monarchy, if they have not already done so voluntarily, to abdicate. Bananas and republics spring to mind.
Oh and of course Thaksin has always wanted to live in Hua Hin and own a golf course here, if he gets his way there will be an empty property on the Petkasem road with its own local golf course under the management of a famous brewery, the owners of which by then, will no doubt be staunch Thaksin supporters.
I’ve been trying to find out the details of this as well and it’s a complex issue due to the two votes you get in an election, one for the constituency and one for the electoral area.buksida wrote:Above two posts are correct, I'll try and dig out that ATol article.
Basically there are a disproportionate number of MPs in Issan compared to the south, it seems like it is calculated geographically and not demographically - a major advantage to TRT/PPP who have monopolised on this.
Certainly the electoral areas were set up demographically with roughly just short of eight million people in each one, but that only accounts for 80 seats in the house.
The other 400 seats are elected by constituency, and if you just look at the totals this may be where the problems lie; in 2007 the PPP obtained 199 seats with 26,293,456 constituency votes whereas the Democrats got 132 seats from 21,745,696 votes which is clearly in the PPP’s favour. (Although they still polled more votes than anyone else.)
I think this is perhaps because each constituency has between one and three seats depending on population size, but you clearly can’t have less than a whole MP so possibly some small areas have one MP for a small population, and conversely you can’t have more than three MPs so perhaps some large constituencies are penalized there as well.
Incidentally it was a Democrat government that introduced this system in the 1997 constitution, so they should perhaps have thought up a system that they liked!
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Wanderlust
- Legend
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- Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2004 12:27 pm
- Location: Hua Hin
I am beginning to think that the electoral system that would fit best with Thailand right now would be some form of proportional representation, as from what I can see there is very little constituency work done, nor interaction between the constituents and their MP (unlike the UK where a change to PR would remove the local link people use I think) except at elections. They could also do with a more flexible voter registration and absentee vote system, as so many Thais work so far from their birthplace, and PR should mean that they could vote where they are rather than the road clogging accident causing melee when they all go home to vote; it could easily be based on the ID card system as long as the identities were kept completely separate from their vote details that is.
I believe WL that this is one of the functions of the Tabien Bahn (Blue Book). They should be on a book at their new location and can then vote there, obtain new ID card, driving licence etc there, without going back to family village.Wanderlust wrote:They could also do with a more flexible voter registration and absentee vote system, as so many Thais work so far from their birthplace, and PR should mean that they could vote where they are rather than the road clogging accident causing melee when they all go home to vote
Obviously some can't get on one, ie: builders in a camp, 4 bar girls sharing a room and moving in and out every week etc.
SJ
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Wanderlust
- Legend
- Posts: 2862
- Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2004 12:27 pm
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SJ,
I think you are right, but I also believe that for many it is extremely difficult to get put on the Terbian Ban,either because they are renting and the landlord does not want to do it for tax reasons, or because they are living in 'temporary' accommodation (e.g. building site workers, farm labourers etc) which does not have a Terbian Ban to be used. I also think this would be the majority of absentee voters so it is a significant number.
I think you are right, but I also believe that for many it is extremely difficult to get put on the Terbian Ban,either because they are renting and the landlord does not want to do it for tax reasons, or because they are living in 'temporary' accommodation (e.g. building site workers, farm labourers etc) which does not have a Terbian Ban to be used. I also think this would be the majority of absentee voters so it is a significant number.
Here is another PAD press release sent to foreign correspondents:
Dear Sirs,
People’s Alliance for Democracy Announcement 27/2008 On Victory of the People
The People’s Alliance for Democracy has been rallying for 192 days since May 25, 2008 for the two objectives, which are to oppose attempts to amend the 2007 Constitution and to drive out the proxy-killer government in order to pave the way for new politics.
Throughout the 192 days of protest, the longest protest seen in Thai history, the PAD has carried out its duties of protecting the nation, religion, the Monarchy and the Constitution. It is an achievement of the PAD in being able to protect the 2007 Constitution, leading to the possibility of the Thai judicial system being able to prove the wrongdoings of politicians.
The Constitution Court’s verdict is clear proof that the previous administration’s power was not obtained through democracy under the Constitution but was accomplished through electoral fraud and that the rally by the People’s Alliance for Democracy was legitimate.
The Constitution Court’s verdict leads the People’s Alliance for Democracy to realize the two goals of its protest.
1. The People’s Alliance for Democracy is victorious in its attempt to protect the 2007 Constitution and made it possible for three ruling coalition political parties to be disbanded for electoral fraud.
2. The PAD is victorious in being able to drive out the proxy-killer government.
The PAD now declares that the victory it attained in meeting the
objectives of its gathering on December 2, 2008 is a “victory of the people.”
Now that the PAD has achieved its goals and on the auspicious occasion of His Majesty the King’s birthday, the PAD realizes there is no need for it to continue its rally.
Therefore, the PAD calls an end to its rally at Government House, the Suvarnabhumi Airport, and the Don Muang Airport on December 3, 2008.
As the current period is now a period of a political vacuum in the country, the PAD would like to call on whichever side that attains power to run the country to find a solution for the current problems and not to create conditions for another political turmoil in the country. Do not bring to power people from the Thaksin regime. Address the wrongdoings conducted by those in the Thaksin regime. Join with the people in making new politics a reality.
The PAD would like to make the following pledges.
1. If a proxy government of the Thaksin regime is set up again or if there is an attempt to amend the Constitution or the law to whitewash the wrongdoings of those in the Thaksin regime, to benefit politicians, or to lessen the power of the King, the PAD will return.
2. From now on, if there is any government which comes into power but is insincere in its efforts to launch new politics with the people, the PAD will return.
We would like to sincerely thank the people for being part of this
historic event. Until we meet again when the country needs us.
With deepest respect,
People’s Alliance for Democracy
December 2, 2008
Ladawan Pittayapiboon (Wan)
Executive Secretary
Tel. 662 629 4488 x 1200
Fax. 662 629 4474
Manager Media Group Co., Ltd. / Thaiday Dot Com Co., Ltd.
102/1 Pra-arthit Road, Chanasongkram, Pranakorn, Bangkok 10200 THAILAND
Source: Press release to Thai based foreign correspondents
Thoughts/Observations: Reads like a veiled threat to me, though by the looks of it they are not going to get involved in politics themselves and leave the door open to whoever is currently there (Red party or Dems). Its like "we've just buggered up the entire country, now we're stepping back and you can try to fix it - if you screw up again we'll come back and wreak more havoc! Oh and if you don't use 'our' politics we'll be back".
Its only just beginning!
Dear Sirs,
People’s Alliance for Democracy Announcement 27/2008 On Victory of the People
The People’s Alliance for Democracy has been rallying for 192 days since May 25, 2008 for the two objectives, which are to oppose attempts to amend the 2007 Constitution and to drive out the proxy-killer government in order to pave the way for new politics.
Throughout the 192 days of protest, the longest protest seen in Thai history, the PAD has carried out its duties of protecting the nation, religion, the Monarchy and the Constitution. It is an achievement of the PAD in being able to protect the 2007 Constitution, leading to the possibility of the Thai judicial system being able to prove the wrongdoings of politicians.
The Constitution Court’s verdict is clear proof that the previous administration’s power was not obtained through democracy under the Constitution but was accomplished through electoral fraud and that the rally by the People’s Alliance for Democracy was legitimate.
The Constitution Court’s verdict leads the People’s Alliance for Democracy to realize the two goals of its protest.
1. The People’s Alliance for Democracy is victorious in its attempt to protect the 2007 Constitution and made it possible for three ruling coalition political parties to be disbanded for electoral fraud.
2. The PAD is victorious in being able to drive out the proxy-killer government.
The PAD now declares that the victory it attained in meeting the
objectives of its gathering on December 2, 2008 is a “victory of the people.”
Now that the PAD has achieved its goals and on the auspicious occasion of His Majesty the King’s birthday, the PAD realizes there is no need for it to continue its rally.
Therefore, the PAD calls an end to its rally at Government House, the Suvarnabhumi Airport, and the Don Muang Airport on December 3, 2008.
As the current period is now a period of a political vacuum in the country, the PAD would like to call on whichever side that attains power to run the country to find a solution for the current problems and not to create conditions for another political turmoil in the country. Do not bring to power people from the Thaksin regime. Address the wrongdoings conducted by those in the Thaksin regime. Join with the people in making new politics a reality.
The PAD would like to make the following pledges.
1. If a proxy government of the Thaksin regime is set up again or if there is an attempt to amend the Constitution or the law to whitewash the wrongdoings of those in the Thaksin regime, to benefit politicians, or to lessen the power of the King, the PAD will return.
2. From now on, if there is any government which comes into power but is insincere in its efforts to launch new politics with the people, the PAD will return.
We would like to sincerely thank the people for being part of this
historic event. Until we meet again when the country needs us.
With deepest respect,
People’s Alliance for Democracy
December 2, 2008
Ladawan Pittayapiboon (Wan)
Executive Secretary
Tel. 662 629 4488 x 1200
Fax. 662 629 4474
Manager Media Group Co., Ltd. / Thaiday Dot Com Co., Ltd.
102/1 Pra-arthit Road, Chanasongkram, Pranakorn, Bangkok 10200 THAILAND
Source: Press release to Thai based foreign correspondents
Thoughts/Observations: Reads like a veiled threat to me, though by the looks of it they are not going to get involved in politics themselves and leave the door open to whoever is currently there (Red party or Dems). Its like "we've just buggered up the entire country, now we're stepping back and you can try to fix it - if you screw up again we'll come back and wreak more havoc! Oh and if you don't use 'our' politics we'll be back".
Its only just beginning!
Who is the happier man, he who has braved the storm of life and lived or he who has stayed securely on shore and merely existed? - Hunter S Thompson
They have partial proportional representation already through the party list system.Wanderlust wrote:I am beginning to think that the electoral system that would fit best with Thailand right now would be some form of proportional representation,.
The only way to stop Thaksin is for the other parties to offer the poor a better deal. Its a fantasy to think that Thaksin's popularity is due to vote buying. He was the first and only politician to try to understand the problems of the ªÒǺéÒ¹ and offer them something and they love him. Ask any taxi driver, cleaner, gardener etc.
If they try to impose an appointed government the red shirts will come out and there will be a civil war.
I think a key element in this drama was the Friday resignation of the Police Chief (some may say it was a sacking by the PM). Everyone was expecting a confrontation over the weekend. The Army Chief had already showed his "yellow" colours by publicly announcing he would like the PM to resign. One can only read between the lines and assume the PM requested the Police to attack the PAD with riot gear which was refused, (hence the sacking of Police Chief Patcharawat Wongsuwan). At that point PM Somchai Wongsawat had nowhere to turn to other than appeal to the "red shirts" to rise up. With a threat of civil war the Constitution Court hastily dissolved the PPP.
It is on very few occasions throughout the world that you could honestly proclaim "Power To The People" but in this case, whether you agree with PAD or not, it is a claim that could be truly merited.
There is still the question of the "Red Shirted" PPP supporters. What will they do? Should they try to emulate the antics of the PAD I suspect the Army and Police would have no problem using force to destroy them. So indeed the proclamation should possibly be "Power To The Middle Class People"!
It is on very few occasions throughout the world that you could honestly proclaim "Power To The People" but in this case, whether you agree with PAD or not, it is a claim that could be truly merited.
There is still the question of the "Red Shirted" PPP supporters. What will they do? Should they try to emulate the antics of the PAD I suspect the Army and Police would have no problem using force to destroy them. So indeed the proclamation should possibly be "Power To The Middle Class People"!
I agree
Buks, I totally agree. IMHO No group in any country should be able to say this as it sets them above the law and undermines the entire system not to mention public confidence. "Power to the selfish idiots" is more like it.Reads like a veiled threat to me, though by the looks of it they are not going to get involved in politics themselves and leave the door open to whoever is currently there (Red party or Dems). Its like "we've just buggered up the entire country, now we're stepping back and you can try to fix it - if you screw up again we'll come back and wreak more havoc! Oh and if you don't use 'our' politics we'll be back".
Not to overstate the case. .and please dont take this the wrong way. . I certainly dont see any "Hitler" here. .but as someone else observed, these are precisely the kinds of actions which put the Nazis into power.
I was rooting for the PAD until they seized the airports and trashed their own country that they say they love. I wont wear my yellow shirt again. (and I dont even own a red shirt.) PAD = 100 hired thugs and 2000 uneducated housewives. . .in the hands of political schemers.
The only saving grace here is that TIT and most Thai people outside Bkk seem to have ignored the whole business and continued on with their daily lives. Except of course for the one million working Thais who lost or will lose their jobs because of PAD stupidity.
One departing tourist lamented "They have trashed tourism here" and that is the sad but true legacy of PAD politics.
I read somewhere that the PAD intend to maintain an airport presence . .. so the message to tourists is loud and clear. . you come here at your own risk. We may let you in, then again. .. we may not. We may let you out. . .then again. . .we may not. Welcome to Thailand!
The PAD in action at the airport:
http://www.matichon.co.th/news_detail.p ... 2&catid=01
Click on the pictures to enlarge.
Maybe they could be the new check in staff
http://www.matichon.co.th/news_detail.p ... 2&catid=01
Click on the pictures to enlarge.
Maybe they could be the new check in staff
Sorry, how is that the same actions?Chas,
these are precisely the kinds of actions which put the Nazis into power.
Is that all that is important here? What about the BIG picture? Everyone knows that corruption is rife in Thailand, yet when it comes down to it, all anyone does is blow hot air. When some people stand up and make a stand and try to fight it, all people care about is the couple days that it effected them.One departing tourist lamented "They have trashed tourism here" and that is the sad but true legacy of PAD politics.
It is wrong to label the PAD as thugs, they are the Thai elite. Educated people who do not seek violence.