Land purchase through Thai spouse forbidden

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Khundon1975
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Post by Khundon1975 »

SJ

In the past when we have purchased any properties there, I was present and signed the Letter of confirmation, no problems.

Any ideas on what happens if a Thai wife of a foreign husband is in land office, registering a property and the husband is not in the country.

How do you think it would be possible, for her to prove that the funds used to purchase property, was solely from her own funds, if the husband is not there to sign the written legal confirmation.
Would bank transfer records from UK to Thai bank get around that problem.

If a downloaded copy of the form "Letter of confirmation" is filled out by the foreign husband whilst he is abroad, and presented to land Dept, by the Thai wife, will this be acceptable to them?

Has anyone on the forum faced this dilemma and if so how did you proceed?

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Super Joe
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Post by Super Joe »

Hi,
Firstly you never have to show prove/demonstrate any funds, they never ask to see any of that. They only want your signature on the declaration. Every other possible task the land office needs from a foreigner present with passport and signature they permit to be done by Power of Attorney with your lawyer, best check with a lawyer that this particular sign off can also be done by POA, or whether it's too important/sensitve.
A pre-signed form would not be accepected, they always want you in person with passport in hand, or a lawyer with POA in my experiences.

Can't answer for sure though I'm afraid.

SJ
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Khundon1975
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Post by Khundon1975 »

SJ

Thanks for that quick answer, look like a Lawyer then, as I won't be back there in time. :thumb:
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Post by PeteC »

This more or less puts the subject to rest. The official almost said he was wrong with his previous sweeping statements, but not quite. Pete :cheers:
____________________
No witch-hunt, says Lands Department
Foreign ownership debate intensifies

By: KANANA KATHARANGSIPORN
Published: 15/06/2009 at 12:00 AM

Newspaper section: Business
The Lands Department does not have a policy to scrutinise acquisitions in which illegal use of Thai nominees on behalf of foreigners is suspected, says director-general Anuwat Maytheewibulwut.

Land ownership revocation cases mostly occur when a complaint or conflict is brought to the department's attention, he said.

"Each year there are 5.5 million land-related transactions handled by the department and we receive around 1,000 complaints," he said. "We have no time to check every transaction, but we will investigate when there's a complaint."

Mr Anuwat was responding after several sharp letters in the Bangkok Post over the past two weeks from readers who questioned the department's policy on land acquisition by foreigners. Some alleged it was xenophobic.

He said it was likely a misunderstanding that the department would scrutinise every transaction suspected to have a Thai nominee owning land for foreigners. In fact, an investigation will be initiated only if there is a complaint.

"There is nothing new in the Land Code for land acquisition by foreigners," he added.

"For purchases or transfers, we have some regulations and processes to investigate illegality, but not that many. We must respect individual rights and assume individuals will not give fake statements to officials."

According to the Land Code, a foreigner can legally acquire land by inheritance as a legal heir, and his or her land ownership must be approved by the Interior Ministry.

Alternatively, a foreigner must invest at least 40 million baht and maintain it for five years through investment in Thai government bonds, property mutual funds, or in share capital of a Board of Investment-promoted company.

Under these two criteria, a foreigner can purchase up to one rai of land for residential use. The department also allows foreign ownership up to 49% of saleable space in a condominium, said Mr Anuwat.

If a foreigner has a Thai spouse, either legitimate or common-law, and wants to buy land, the Thai spouse must give officials of the Lands Department a joint written confirmation that the money for the purchase is wholly separate property or the personal property of the Thai spouse, not jointly acquired property.

"If a foreigner has a conflict with his or her Thai spouse and makes a complaint on land ownership to the department, we will investigate," said Mr Anuwat. "If we find the ownership is illegal, we will ask them to transfer or sell that piece of land within 180 to 365 days."

If the transfer or sale cannot be made within a year, the department will use its authority to do it. Any legal dispute between the couple not involving land ownership must be resolved under civil law.

"Changing foreign land acquisition regulations such as an extension of the leasehold period to longer than 30 years or increasing foreigners' quotas to buy condominiums is a government matter. The department is always ready to carry out the government's policy," Mr Anuwat said.

He added that all foreigners who comply with the law will get full protection under the law.

"For anyone involved in land ownership on behalf of foreigners, what they should be sure of is concern for the nation, ethics and morality in applying the law to make sure they are good Thai citizens," he said.
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STEVE G
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Post by STEVE G »

This goes back to what has been my experience here so far; my partner has land here, some payed for by me and some from her family, and the land office treated both cases identically with no fuss whatsoever.
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Post by Spitfire »

Shades of grey and ambiguity. Technically, yes but maybe no, if nobody says anything then nobody cares about it. :roll:
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Post by ozuncle »

STEVE G wrote:This goes back to what has been my experience here so far; my partner has land here, some payed for by me and some from her family, and the land office treated both cases identically with no fuss whatsoever.
STEVE G,
Forgive me if i'm wrong but I think there is a difference if you are married as compared to partner.
My wife took my surname after marriage and I had to sign the disclaimer.
My daughter who is legally married but retains a Thai passport in her maiden name was not asked anything about a husband.
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STEVE G
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Post by STEVE G »

Yes, technically it should be the same but if your Thai wife, common-law or full retains a Thai name the matter won't even arise.
To be honest, I think problems come up when you start running things like property developments through your Thai wife, where there is obvious abuse of the intent of the law rather than just owning a house.
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Super Joe
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Post by Super Joe »

ozuncle wrote:
STEVE G wrote:This goes back to what has been my experience here so far; my partner has land here, some payed for by me and some from her family, and the land office treated both cases identically with no fuss whatsoever.
STEVE G, Forgive me if i'm wrong but I think there is a difference if you are married as compared to partner.
My wife took my surname after marriage and I had to sign the disclaimer. My daughter who is legally married but retains a Thai passport in her maiden name was not asked anything about a husband.
Oz, you are correct that the Land Office only seem to get Thais who have taken the foreigners surname on ID card, passport or whatever to sign the disclaimer, but this is the wrong practice by the officials, surnames are irrelevant. A Thai married to a foreigner that did not have the disclaimer signed by the foreigner did not register the land in accordance with Land Code regulations. A serious side to this is that apparently (so I'm told) the Thai has to indicate on one of the forms when registering land whether or not she is married to a foreigner, some would have made a false declaration there.
Some lawyers say you can go back retrospectively and make the declaration but then run the risk of drawing attention to your case. The fact that a land office oficial registered the land at the time not asking for a spouses signature, even if they were told of a marriage, will not alter it's legal status at a later date.

Part Extract From Land Code:
"An alien whose spouse is a Thai national either legitimate or illegitimate, that Thai national can purchase land but the alien spouse of that Thai national must give a joint written confirmation that the money which that Thai national will expend on purchasing the land is wholly the separate property or personal effects of that Thai national and not the Sin Somros or jointly acquired property."


Part Extract From Ministry of Interior:
The procedure for the acquisition of land by Thais having spouses being aliens, either by lawful marriage (with proper registration of marriage) or unlawful marriage (without proper registration of marriage) and children of aliens have been changed to be as follows ....... rest left off



I think the thought's at the time from foreign spouses who were not forced to sign the declaration was that it was a bit of a result and might enable a potential claim to part of the money in case of a future divorce. Apparently there are many divorce cases where judges do not take into account this declaration that the funds were all 'private property', and have included the monies as 'common property' and awarded a 50/50 split.

SJ
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