johnnyk wrote:They won't build it, they will buy a turnkey most likely from France (very safe, the world's most nuclear country).
No reason they can't run it properly.
Yep - and France is also well known for being generous to politicians in need.....
johnnyk wrote:They won't build it, they will buy a turnkey most likely from France (very safe, the world's most nuclear country). No reason they can't run it properly.
I hope you're right John. Every now and then though (like daily) Thais decide they need to do things the Thai way and no need for farang experience. After it's done if we smell steamed crab coming form the cooling towers, we'll all know what happened. Pete
Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. Source
Johnny K they thought that 3 mile island and no doubt Chernobyl was safe too! We won't mention the leaks from Japan and the UK either. I'm just waiting for the 1st f-ck up from India or Pakistan to happen (planned or otherwise). You have more confidence than I and I tend to concur with VS on the issue. Unfortunately there may be no other option in the future (alternative energy sources).
I have a good Thai friend who is high up in the national Thai electric utility company. He says it's not going to happen (nuclear energy). It's too dangerous, public sediment is against, and the generating cost is too high. He believes that an increased usage of solar energy is the solution and I think he is right. The production of solar cells and windmills is nowadays a relatively low-tech field, which the Thais could handle.
One wonders why not every new house in Thailand is already built with solar cells as in Greece and Israel...
One wonders why not every new house in Thailand is already built with solar cells as in Greece and Israel.
Economically speaking, solar cells will not pay for themselves yet. That's one of the reasons Greece and Spain are broke (haven't heard about solar in Israel). The technology is just not good enough yet. It costs more to implement than it yields in power.
My brain is like an Internet browser; 12 tabs are open and 5 of them are not responding, there's a GIF playing in an endless loop,... and where is that annoying music coming from?
One wonders why not every new house in Thailand is already built with solar cells as in Greece and Israel.
Economically speaking, solar cells will not pay for themselves yet. That's
one of the reasons Greece and Spain are broke
(haven't heard about solar in Israel). The technology is just not good enough yet. It costs more to implement than it yields in power.
I'm not sure about that one. The reason why Greece is broke is because its people don't pay their taxes. Most of the Greek houses remain unfinished because taxes are not due until the house is finished.
I believe that today's advanced solar cell technology is economically feasible. Much has happened in that field during the past couple of years.
Lung Per wrote:I believe that today's advanced solar cell technology is economically feasible. Much has happened in that field during the past couple of years.
Yes, it is but it still costs a fortune, and certainly more that what many people can afford. Of course you can also build your own system, but can you imagine trying to find all the bits in Thailand as a farang who can't speak Thai. Also, electricity is quite cheap in Thailand, so most people simply can't be bothered. Many Thais only pay a couple of hundred baht each month for the amount of power they use, so they have no real reason to spend 100k on a solar power system.
Wind powered generators are also a good alternative, and once again, one can easily make your own. Two or three of those on your property, together with a good sized battery bank, and you should be able to power a small two bedroom homed if there's no aircon and/or swimming pool pump.
As far as nucllear power in Thailand is concerned...............there won't be any reactors in Hua-Hin. Why not? There's not enough water available for cooling it
Says I after entering day sixteen without any mains water
Don't try to impress me with your manner of dress cos a monkey himself is a monkey no less - cold fact
This is a quote from The Nation going back to March 18 that I missed:
"The source said Burn and Roe Asia will submit its feasibility study on the nuclear power plant project and potential locations to the Electricity Generating Authority of Thailand in May.
The company has already reduced 14 locations down to five, with two in Surat Thani, one in Nakhon Si Thammarat, one in Trat and one in Nakhon Sawan. With Surat Thani and Nakhon Si Thammarat likely to make the final cut, a ministry source said yesterday....."
Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. Source
I read today that president Obama wants to see humans orbiting Mars by 2030. I'll bet my bottom dollar man will put foot on the red planet before Thailand goes nuclear, and no, I'm not being sarcastic.
Don't try to impress me with your manner of dress cos a monkey himself is a monkey no less - cold fact
I read today that president Obama wants to see humans orbiting Mars by 2030.
Yeah, but it won't be American humans... he has pretty much done away with Nasa. After three more shuttle missions we are scrapping the government funded space program and will pay millions (per person) to the Russians just to take our astronauts to the international space station after that.
He is reducing the U.S. from a superpower to a third world country as fast as he possibly can...
My brain is like an Internet browser; 12 tabs are open and 5 of them are not responding, there's a GIF playing in an endless loop,... and where is that annoying music coming from?
Ubon Ratchathani and Nakhon Sawan are picked as the principal locations of five nuclear power plants, with combined capacity of 5,000 megawatts, said a source from the Energy Ministry.
He cited huge local resistance in Nakhon Si Thammarat and Surat Thani, which made it impossible to locate the power plants in the two Southern provinces.
Advisor Burns & Roe Asia earlier shortlisted Nakhon Si Thammarat and Surat Thani from 17 locations, as the two provinces can accommodate the light-water reactor (LWR) technology. However, the ministry's officials have so far failed to reconcile with local communities.
"By changing the locations, we will need to reconsider the technology choice," the source said.
Under the Power Development Plan 2010, nuclear power plants, if approved by the government, will feed power into the system during 2020-2028. The new development plan will be submitted to the Cabinet early 2011 for approval.
The source also noted that if the government shows its intention to proceed with the nuclear power generating, it is required to set up additional budget to finance the Nuclear Power Programme Development Office, a unit under the ministry. That would also lengthen the life of NPPDO which is now supervised by designated-permanent secretary Norkun Sitthiphong. Set up during the Surayud government, NPPDO was tasked to prepare for the development within a 3-year timeframe.
Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. Source
How clever of Abhisit - he has managed to look like a caring and wise politician while neatly passing the buck to the next Government. You have to wonder if he would have said anything at all if the Japan plants weren't in trouble
Personally, I think they do need to go forward with the plan, because let's face it, there won't always be coal and oil/gas to burn. Let's just hope they put that dreaded "made in Thailand" stamp on the plant...lol.
Don't try to impress me with your manner of dress cos a monkey himself is a monkey no less - cold fact
I bet China can see political and financial gains in helping little brother Thailand have the power it wants. look what they have to date below
(edit: from World nuclear power web site)
Nuclear Power in China
(Updated 10 March 2011)
Mainland China has 13 nuclear power reactors in operation, more than 25 under construction, and more about to start construction soon.
Additional reactors are planned, including some of the world's most advanced, to give more than a ten-fold increase in nuclear capacity to at least 80 GWe by 2020, 200 GWe by 2030, and 400 GWe by 2050.
China is rapidly becoming self-sufficient in reactor design and construction, as well as other aspects of the fuel cycle.
Most of mainland China's electricity is produced from fossil fuels (80% from coal, 2% from oil, 1% from gas in 2006) and hydropower (15%). Two large hydro projects are recent additions: Three Gorges of 18.2 GWe and Yellow River of 15.8 GWe. Rapid growth in demand has given rise to power shortages, and the reliance on fossil fuels has led to much air pollution. The economic loss due to pollution is put by the World Bank at almost 6% of GDP.1
Domestic electricity production in 2009 was 3643 billion kWh, 6.0% higher than the 3450 billion kWh in 2008, which was 5.8% more than in 2007 (3260 billion kWh) and it is expected to rise to 3810 billion kWh in 2010a. Installed generating capacity had grown by the end of 2010 to 962 GWe, up 10.1% on the previous year's 874 GWe, which was 10.2% above the 2008 figure of 793 GWe2. At the end of 2010, fossil fuelled capacity (mostly coal) reached 707 GWe, hydro capacity was 213 GWe (up 16.6 GWe in the year), nuclear capacity was 10.8 GWe and wind capacity reached 31 GWe. Meanwhile, investment in electricity dropped 8.5% to CNY 705 billion ($107 billion) for the year. Capacity growth is expected to slow, reaching about 1600 GWe in 2020.
These capacity increase figures are all the more remarkable considering the forced retirement of small inefficient coal-fired plants: 26 GWe of these was closed in 2009 and 11 GWe in 2010, making 71 GWe closed since 2006, cutting annual coal consumption by about 82 million tonnes and annual carbon dioxide emissions by some 165 million tonnes. China is well advanced in developing and deploying supercritical and ultra-supercritical coal plants, as well as moving quickly to design and deploy technologies for integrated (coal) gasification combined cycle (IGCC) plants.
The grid system run by the State Grid Corporation of China (SGCC) and China Southern Power Grid Co (CSG) is sophisticated and rapidly growing, utilising ultra high voltage (1000 kV AC and 800 kV DC) transmission. By 2020, the capacity of the UHV network is expected to be some 300 GW, which will function as the backbone of the whole system, having 400 GWe of clean energy sources connected, of which hydropower will account for 78 GW, and wind power from the north a further significant portion (wind capacity by 2020 is planned to be 100 GWe). Also by 2020, operational transmission losses are expected to be 5.7%, down from 6.6% in 2010. At the end of 2009, China had budgeted to spend $600 billion upgrading its grid.
Among the main listed generators, Huaneng Power produced 203.5 billion kWh from its domestic plants in 2009, 10.2% up on 2008. Datang Power produced 141.9 billion kWh, 12% up on 2008. Huadian Power produced 107.5 billion kWh, 6.75% above 2008. CPI Development produced 43.9 billion kWh, 2.0% above 2008 level.
While coal is the main energy source, most reserves are in the north or northwest and present an enormous logistical problem – nearly half the country's rail capacity is used in transporting coal. Because of the heavy reliance on old coal-fired plant, electricity generation accounts for much of the country's air pollution, which is a strong reason to increase nuclear share. China recently overtook the USA as the world's largest contributor to carbon dioxide emissions. The US Energy Information Administration predicts that China's share in global coal-related emissions will grow by 2.7% per year, from 4.9 billion tonnes in 2006 to 9.3 billion tonnes in 2030, some 52% of the projected world total. Total carbon dioxide emissions in China are projected to grow by 2.8% per year from 6.2 billion tonnes in 2006 to 11.7 billion tonnes in 2030 (or 28% of world total). In comparison, total US carbon dioxide emissions are projected to grow by 0.3% per year, from 5.9 billion tonnes in 2006 to 7.7 billion tonnes in 2030.3
Electricity generation is only one part of China's rapid development; roads, air transport and a 40,000 km high-speed rail system by 2015 are others.
Nuclear power
Nuclear power has an important role, especially in the coastal areas remote from the coalfields and where the economy is developing rapidly. Generally, nuclear plants can be built close to centres of demand, whereas suitable wind and hydro sites are remote from demand. Moves to build nuclear power commenced in 1970 and about 2005 the industry moved into a rapid development phase. Technology has been drawn from France, Canada and Russia, with local development based largely on the French element. The latest technology acquisition has been from the USA (via Westinghouse, owned by Japan's Toshiba) and France. The Westinghouse AP1000 is the main basis of technology development in the immediate future.
By around 2040, PWRs are expected to level off at 200 GWe and fast reactors progressively increase from 2020 to at least 200 GWe by 2050 and 1400 GWe by 2100.
Prior to 2008, the government had planned to increase nuclear generating capacity to 40 GWe by 2020 (out of a total 1000 GWe planned), with a further 18 GWe nuclear being under construction then. However, government targets for nuclear power have been increasing. As of June 2010, official installed nuclear capacity projections were 70-80 GWe by 2020, 200 GWe by 2030 and 400-500 GWe by 2050. China Daily in January 2011 quoted a senior official projecting 86 GWe target in 2020.
In September 2010, the China Daily reported that China National Nuclear Corporation (CNNC) alone plans to invest CNY 800 billion ($120 billion) into nuclear energy projects by 2020. Total investment in nuclear power plants, in which CNNC will hold controlling stakes, will reach CNY 500 billion ($75 billion) by 2015, resulting in 40 GWe on line, according to CNNC. In order to fund the company's expansion target, CNNC plans to list its subsidiary, CNNC Nuclear Power Co Ltd in 2011, to attract strategic investors
Pete 
