This tax on UK state pensions issue is a bit misleading. Strictly speaking the basic state pension is below the personal allowance for tax, so for someone on state pension only, tax doesn't apply.
There may be exceptions of course where state pensions have been enhanced by AVCs etc. Probably rare.
The problem is that the state pension is taken into account along with other income for tax purposes, rather than being disregarded.
So we have certainly got some Scandinavian countries then which allow pension increases in all other countries of residence?
Does anyone know the policies of Germany and France?
UK Pensioners in Thailand miss inflation adjustment
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margaretcarnes
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UK pensioners in Thailand miss inflation adjustment
A sprout is for life - not just for Christmas.
State pension
Mags this may be a silly question but
Say someone came here at 65 got his state pension he would not get the rises but say after 5 years he went back to the UK would he get the pension increases then ie say his pension was £100 a month at 65 for the 5 years it would stay at £100
Say it has risen by £5 each of the 5 years would he then get £125 a month or only get the rises awarded after he got back
I hope you can understand me or at least see what i am getting at
Mags this may be a silly question but
Say someone came here at 65 got his state pension he would not get the rises but say after 5 years he went back to the UK would he get the pension increases then ie say his pension was £100 a month at 65 for the 5 years it would stay at £100
Say it has risen by £5 each of the 5 years would he then get £125 a month or only get the rises awarded after he got back
I hope you can understand me or at least see what i am getting at
A Greatfull Guest of Thailand
State pension supplementry question
Dear Mags i am due state pension in 3 years 52 days time i have a private pension i am already taxed on i also know i will be taxed on the total income
You told me a while ago i was year wise qualified for a full pension
So how much a month before tax on top of my private pension can i expect per month/year/week forget possible rises say it was tommorrow
Dear Mags i am due state pension in 3 years 52 days time i have a private pension i am already taxed on i also know i will be taxed on the total income
You told me a while ago i was year wise qualified for a full pension
So how much a month before tax on top of my private pension can i expect per month/year/week forget possible rises say it was tommorrow
A Greatfull Guest of Thailand
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margaretcarnes
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UK pensioners in Thailand miss inflation adjustment
I know what you mean Sarge - no, the missed increases wouldn't be re-instated on return to the UK. Anyone like your example who returned would start their annual percentage increases on the existing (frozen) rate. Therefore losing out twice when compound increases are taken into account - or not in that case!
Standard pension rates are publicly available but for folks like us who also paid into SERPS and graduated contributions years ago get a bit more, so I've pm'd you.
Standard pension rates are publicly available but for folks like us who also paid into SERPS and graduated contributions years ago get a bit more, so I've pm'd you.
A sprout is for life - not just for Christmas.
Mags you are a diamond a mine of USEFULL information thanks i have pmd reference your pm and much enthusing of eternal love and gratefulness for that as well
I am full of joy the £ is over 55.25 my posts are being answered civily and as long as the £ stays above 20.55 i shall end my days here mind you if it goes down to 21 to the £ i will starve to deaf BUT i will still qualify for my marriage visa
3 years 51 days to go
I am full of joy the £ is over 55.25 my posts are being answered civily and as long as the £ stays above 20.55 i shall end my days here mind you if it goes down to 21 to the £ i will starve to deaf BUT i will still qualify for my marriage visa
3 years 51 days to go
A Greatfull Guest of Thailand
This is from the UK gov website
"You can claim your State Pension if you live outside the UK. However, you’ll only receive the yearly index-linked increases if you live in the European Economic Area (EEA) or Switzerland or in a country with which the UK has a social security agreement that includes state pensions.
If you live outside those areas, you won’t be entitled to the yearly index-linked increases. However, if you return to live in the UK, your State Pension will be increased to current levels."
Relevant source is direct gov uk
"You can claim your State Pension if you live outside the UK. However, you’ll only receive the yearly index-linked increases if you live in the European Economic Area (EEA) or Switzerland or in a country with which the UK has a social security agreement that includes state pensions.
If you live outside those areas, you won’t be entitled to the yearly index-linked increases. However, if you return to live in the UK, your State Pension will be increased to current levels."
Relevant source is direct gov uk
The wind blows cold on brake and heath
The weeping willows cry
The mountains dark are jagged teeth
Against a leaden sky.
The weeping willows cry
The mountains dark are jagged teeth
Against a leaden sky.
Okey dokey i will let you and mags sort that one out 
annexe question so my man has gone back to the UK and is now getting £125 a month his pension is upped year 6 to £130 and he returns to Thailand to live does he then get £130 a month or does he go back down to £100
Supplementary annexe question how long does he have to be resident in the UK for his pension to go up from the £100 to the £125
none of this will apply to me but it is interesting because this is something which i think is wrong pensioners have paid into the system and all pensioners should recieve the same irrespective of where they live
annexe question so my man has gone back to the UK and is now getting £125 a month his pension is upped year 6 to £130 and he returns to Thailand to live does he then get £130 a month or does he go back down to £100
Supplementary annexe question how long does he have to be resident in the UK for his pension to go up from the £100 to the £125
none of this will apply to me but it is interesting because this is something which i think is wrong pensioners have paid into the system and all pensioners should recieve the same irrespective of where they live
A Greatfull Guest of Thailand
Just another thought on UK State Pension increases. If you are resident in UK and do not claim the pension at 65 (60 for women) your pension entitlement increases by 10% per annum until you actually start to claim. I believe this can go on until the age of 70. Does any one know if this also applies if you are resident abroad in non qualifying countries.
I think you would receive at the higher rate (that is, 130).
Much depends upon whether you have a applied to be classed a non resident for tax purposes, in which case, obviously no increases.
Now the other complication is whether you are here permanently or on a "long holiday". This may be dealt with in the same manner as the requirements for classification as non resident - the amount of qualifying time spent inside / outside the uK.
however I stand to be corrected on that one.
for sure the direct gov website has good information and they are quite good at direction to the correct place for clarification
Much depends upon whether you have a applied to be classed a non resident for tax purposes, in which case, obviously no increases.
Now the other complication is whether you are here permanently or on a "long holiday". This may be dealt with in the same manner as the requirements for classification as non resident - the amount of qualifying time spent inside / outside the uK.
however I stand to be corrected on that one.
for sure the direct gov website has good information and they are quite good at direction to the correct place for clarification
The wind blows cold on brake and heath
The weeping willows cry
The mountains dark are jagged teeth
Against a leaden sky.
The weeping willows cry
The mountains dark are jagged teeth
Against a leaden sky.
Mr Lonely/mags
Quote "Much depends upon whether you have a applied to be classed a non resident for tax purposes, "
As i am paying UK tax on my private pension how does that effect rises in my state pension i have not applied for non res status ever
If the govt was honest (which it aint) i should recieve the rises
Quote "Much depends upon whether you have a applied to be classed a non resident for tax purposes, "
As i am paying UK tax on my private pension how does that effect rises in my state pension i have not applied for non res status ever
If the govt was honest (which it aint) i should recieve the rises
A Greatfull Guest of Thailand
If you are already classed as non-resident then no rises.
If you are paying UK tax on my private pension, you are officially resident in the UK for tax purposes.
this could be challegend according to how many days you spend out tof the UK.
This is from HMRC website
Q3. In what circumstances would I become non-resident?
A3. Normally if you leave the UK to work abroad full-time, you will become not resident and not ordinarily resident in the UK if
* your absence and employment from the UK covers a complete tax year (i.e. 6 April to 5 April), and
* you spend less than 183 days in the UK during the tax year, and
* your visits to the UK do not average 91 days or more a tax year over a maximum of 4 years.
For visits to the UK, days of arrival and departure are not normally counted as days spent in the UK.
If you are paying UK tax on my private pension, you are officially resident in the UK for tax purposes.
this could be challegend according to how many days you spend out tof the UK.
This is from HMRC website
Q3. In what circumstances would I become non-resident?
A3. Normally if you leave the UK to work abroad full-time, you will become not resident and not ordinarily resident in the UK if
* your absence and employment from the UK covers a complete tax year (i.e. 6 April to 5 April), and
* you spend less than 183 days in the UK during the tax year, and
* your visits to the UK do not average 91 days or more a tax year over a maximum of 4 years.
For visits to the UK, days of arrival and departure are not normally counted as days spent in the UK.
The wind blows cold on brake and heath
The weeping willows cry
The mountains dark are jagged teeth
Against a leaden sky.
The weeping willows cry
The mountains dark are jagged teeth
Against a leaden sky.
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margaretcarnes
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UK pensioners in Thailand miss inflation adjustment
Flippin' heck you lot really push the little grey cells to their limit! Good points though.
First - official residential status abroad has nothing to do with freezing the pension increases. Pensions are frozen on account of change of address being notified to the DWP. Therefore people who keep their bank accounts going in the UK and don't notify a change of address continue to (illegally) get the annual uprates. They do of course also need to retain a UK address for official purposes.
Deferrement of state pensions hasn't been limited to a 5 year max since 2005. It can now be deferred for an indefinite period of time. However, for deferred pensions there is the option of either taking an annual lump sum for each year of deferrement, or opting for extra on the eventual weekly payment.
The question about whether deferrement while abroad will still qualify for full increase on return to the UK is a good one, and I can't find an answer at the moment. I suspect that there might be a loophole here, ie that perhaps (and it only IS a perhaps based on experience of other benefit loopholes) - the lump sum option might avoid the problem. Whereas the increased weekly rate may be penalised.
I'll try to get a full answer on that - and thanks for raising those points!
But as far as UK residence and benefits rules are concerned, most are treated in the same way. Again - I can't find anything specific to pensions here, but in general the 'habitual residence test' has to be satisfied for benefits to continue to be paid after an absence abroad. As a very general rule that means spending 6 months of every year in the UK. I would be very surprised to find that reinstatement of pension at the current rate is automatic after a period spent abroad which is long enough to call the habitual residence test into account. But hey ho, stranger things have happened!
First - official residential status abroad has nothing to do with freezing the pension increases. Pensions are frozen on account of change of address being notified to the DWP. Therefore people who keep their bank accounts going in the UK and don't notify a change of address continue to (illegally) get the annual uprates. They do of course also need to retain a UK address for official purposes.
Deferrement of state pensions hasn't been limited to a 5 year max since 2005. It can now be deferred for an indefinite period of time. However, for deferred pensions there is the option of either taking an annual lump sum for each year of deferrement, or opting for extra on the eventual weekly payment.
The question about whether deferrement while abroad will still qualify for full increase on return to the UK is a good one, and I can't find an answer at the moment. I suspect that there might be a loophole here, ie that perhaps (and it only IS a perhaps based on experience of other benefit loopholes) - the lump sum option might avoid the problem. Whereas the increased weekly rate may be penalised.
I'll try to get a full answer on that - and thanks for raising those points!
But as far as UK residence and benefits rules are concerned, most are treated in the same way. Again - I can't find anything specific to pensions here, but in general the 'habitual residence test' has to be satisfied for benefits to continue to be paid after an absence abroad. As a very general rule that means spending 6 months of every year in the UK. I would be very surprised to find that reinstatement of pension at the current rate is automatic after a period spent abroad which is long enough to call the habitual residence test into account. But hey ho, stranger things have happened!
A sprout is for life - not just for Christmas.
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margaretcarnes
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UK pensioners in Thailand miss inflation adjustment
A very swift reply from my gurus in Social Services (don't worry - not the run of the mill folks. These are benefits specialists!) confirms that -
Deferrement of state pensions does NOT APPEAR to be penalised by going abroad. In other words the guidance is still a little fuzzy.
And that pensions start to increase again upon the pensioners' return to the UK, and without the need to requalify for UK residence. All well and good, except that my guru still hasn't answered my specific question. It does though still sound as though increases begin again on return, but only on the level of pension as it was when frozen.
Will let y'all know if this proves not to be the case. Or if anyone ever fully gets to grips with it!
A guide to deferring state pensions can be downloaded from www.direct.gov.uk
Deferrement of state pensions does NOT APPEAR to be penalised by going abroad. In other words the guidance is still a little fuzzy.
And that pensions start to increase again upon the pensioners' return to the UK, and without the need to requalify for UK residence. All well and good, except that my guru still hasn't answered my specific question. It does though still sound as though increases begin again on return, but only on the level of pension as it was when frozen.
Will let y'all know if this proves not to be the case. Or if anyone ever fully gets to grips with it!
A guide to deferring state pensions can be downloaded from www.direct.gov.uk
A sprout is for life - not just for Christmas.