Cost of living in Hua Hin

[lomuamart]

I reckon a lot will depend on the house anyone has. How luxurious and whether rented or owned. Also whether it's felt necessary to have your own transport. I appreciate that the list below dosn't exactly match the OP's checklist but if you took the minimum monthly income requirement for retirement - 65K a month - and rented then I would break things down like so:

Rent 10,000 (can be found close to town. We pay less. No need for own
transport. 10 BHT to get into town on a songthaew. 30 THB
for motorcycle taxi. 100 THB for tuk tuk. Can walk).

Elect 2,500 (One aircon unit going overnight and a bit during hot days,
otherwise fans. No pool or other expensive elect items).

Int/tel 845 (Decent 3 meg connection that works at reasonable speeds
as location is close to town centre. Telephone calls are free
up to 500 THB a month but never use that much as I've got
no mates to call. Hate mobiles as the wife can check on me
too easily).

TV 300 (Cable. Pretty awful - in fact terrible, but I get Coronation
Street, Emmerdale Farm (shoot me), the Golf Channel and 3
news networks. I don't really need other live sport so no need
for satellite).

Water 100 (Small front yard well stocked with plants and domestic use.
No pool or huge areas to water)

Food 6,500 (Don't eat out. I wouldn't mind doing so but the wife isn't
interested. That figure is more than enough for the two of
us. We eat three times a day and not on nuts and berries.
However, no expensive cheeses and other luxury items. Used
to miss them, but not now. No going to Market Village or
Villa. Only ever been in them once and that wasn't for
shopping. Stick to local markets and Gee Un Tung).

Wife allowance 15,000 (She wouldn't complain with that. It's all party money for
her. Gets mullahed a few times a month otherwise just
visits family and drinks there with a bit of grub).

Golf 16,000 ( six times on the big courses a month - with society at
2,200 a day. 4 times at a lesser course, say Dolphin Bay,
2,800 - 700 a day for petrol money, game, beers and cigs)

That leaves approx 14,000 a month. 10 days are taken up with golf and allow for a decent amount of beer at the course and back home. So 14,000 by the other 20 days in the month is 700 a day. If you try and abstain from drink 3 days a week and walk the beach or swim instead that's easily manageable. I can still venture into town once or twice a month and get totaled. Not interested in being in there any more than that.
There's other stuff I've missed and the above is really only very rough and isn't our expenditure. I just put it in as an alternative to other examples.

If I had 120,000-200,000 to spend a month, I'd go out in a blaze of glory. Forgot - no kids but the OP did say 2 people. Appreciate that the OP will have maintenance on an owned property but you can take off the 10,000 rent from the above. There's Imm costs but mine are about 6K a year. I don't have health insurance in my figures.

[margaretcarnes]

I know SJ was being a bit hypothetical and off the OP's mark there - maybe it is what he would LIKE to be able to spend? But seriously, at home no-one would need immigration fees/tea money/health insurance for starters. (Or - let's get real - inlaw donations!)
Spending on birthdays/anniversarys etc to that level really isn't necessary either IMO. It's the thought that matters - and school fees are for the privileged few back home too.

I think these are the main points to consider re the cost of living in the LOS. First - budget for the things which come free at home like health care and schools and multi channel TV, plus the requrements like visas and passport renewals.
Figure on pretty much the same costs for fuel and power if you need aircon - maybe even a bit more.
Consider whether you can manage without a car - taxis and buses are cheap and plentiful.
Allow for having more time to fill, therefore golf and other pastimes will eat more of your budget than they maybe do at home.
Figure on taking advantage of the huge variety of eateries - which needn't be expensive anyway.
Do your own housework and laundry - just like you do at home.
Save on the whole Christmas thing like many other expats do by paying a passing nod to it with a bit of turkey. Who needs Santa in the tropics anyway?

It's all common sense really and being able to ditch all the stuff which you are made to feel is essential back home, and which really isn't. Lose the peer group pressure. Life in Thailand should be layed back, easy, and enjoyable. It isn't always that easy - but it certainly shouldn't be yet another social ladder to climb.

[PeteC]

..... Who needs Santa in the tropics anyway?.......

Sacrilege! My daughter is going to track you down. Pete

[kalbow]

I think the OP asks a fair question and one that I have polled from many people myself in order to gauge how/when to retire etc. SJ answers the questions fairly based on his situation.

Maybe other members should post their equivalent expenditure so the OP can get an idea of an average of those expenses that are relevant. One thing to consider of course is the household situation, e.g. if you have kids as opposed to a retired couple.

I would also welcome something like this so I can validate my budget for retirement (I'm not currently living full time in HH).

Kalbow

[margaretcarnes]

I think the OP asks a fair question and one that I have polled from many people myself in order to gauge how/when to retire etc. SJ answers the questions fairly based on his situation.

Maybe other members should post their equivalent expenditure so the OP can get an idea of an average of those expenses that are relevant. One thing to consider of course is the household situation, e.g. if you have kids as opposed to a retired couple.

I would also welcome something like this so I can validate my budget for retirement (I'm not currently living full time in HH).

Kalbow

Fair enough Kalpow - and IMO you can't do much better than look at Lomuamarts post - which is based on 12 years solid living in HH and is as realistic as it gets.
The simple truth is that retirement anywhere is a gamble now. The other inexorable truth is that in HH you can spend as much as you have if you have a mind to - and more.
Budgets and financial planning are wise of course, and fine as a guideline, but you can never escape the vaguaries of either the exchange rate or Thai government policies (which have just changed yet again with regard to proof of retirement income.)
If you think you will have enough go for it and be prepared to compromise if necessary.

[Nereus]

................................Thai government policies (which have just changed yet again with regard to proof of retirement income.)
If you think you will have enough go for it and be prepared to compromise if necessary.

So what has changed yet again that the rest of us don't know about?

[buksida]

There is no definitive answer to this topic as everyone has different lifestyle expectations and priorities. Our household family expenses typically run at about 60-70k per month with running a car, two kids, and a rented house. That said we never eat out in Hua Hin and I don't play golf (but try to crack the scuba kit out whenever possible) - we do also enjoy at least one weekend away per month.

If you want all of the things in SJ's list then yes, you can easily get through 150-200k per month.

If you own the house rather than rent it you'll be forever spending on upgrades, extras and repairs which balances out the money saved on rent - best to budget for it either way.

[dtaai-maai]

................................Thai government policies (which have just changed yet again with regard to proof of retirement income.)
If you think you will have enough go for it and be prepared to compromise if necessary.

So what has changed yet again that the rest of us don't know about?

I think it's just that they've made the 'proof of income' thing official for US citizens and anyone else who doesn't have to do more than cross their heart and hope to die!

[hhfarang]

hhfarang..........that sounds alot ! Would be cheaper than that to live here in England !

That may be correct. Don't come here expecting the good life on much less than you live on in England. I lived in a very big house in a very upscale beach town in south east Florida before I moved here and I could have stayed in place for almost the same as it costs me here. In Florida my electric bill was never as high as it is here and I used central air conditioning to cool the entire home to 22c, 24/7. Car insurance was about the same there, food, gardener, water, cable TV, internet, etc. were almost exactly the same there. Golf (on a decent course) was much cheaper there. The only three things that were significantly higher there were property taxes, health care, and automobile maintenance. Many other things were cheaper in the U.S. than in Thailand such as cars (20% higher here), electronics (computers, cameras, TVs, etc.) or damned near anything imported from outside Thailand (20 to 30% higher here). Wine and spirits are much higher here for the same quality (triple in some cases). Even the medications I've taken for years are higher here than in the U.S.

Thailand is cheap but Hua Hin is not representative of Thailand. It is a tourist beach resort town and as such is one of the three most expensive places to live in the country from what I have gathered talking to friends who live in other areas.

And you can't predict the future. As I said I came here with 120k per month in a fixed USD pension. That was plenty of money to live and I played golf weekly at real courses and we were able to eat out and do other recreational activities a lot. I even went back to the U.S for a one month holiday after being here one year. Now, nearly 8 years later that 120k is worth 80k and the cost of living in Hua Hin has increased 15% in that same period. I have to take 20k per month out of my savings just to get by because we need a minimum of 100k.

I own my house so pay no rent or mortgage.
I have no home insurance as I can't afford it now.
I have no health insurance as I can't afford it now.
I play free and cheap golf courses mostly on military bases because I can't afford the good ones now.
At best I go out to eat twice a week, once with the missus and once with a friend always cheap restaurants.
I have not left Thailand since 2005 because I can't afford international travel.
I am nursing along an 11 year old Pentium III 866ghz computer because I can't afford to replace it.
I run one, and only one air conditioner at at time when I am home (which is most of the time because I can't afford to go out). I only cool the room I'm in, keep the door closed, and set the thermostat to 25c.
I do have the platinum satellite TV package and a better than average internet connection because those two things have to be my entertainment since I can't afford to do anything else.
I do support my mother in law as she has no other means (only 6k per month).
I do have a large home and garden that requires regular maintenance and a full time gardener.
I do have two (7 year old, paid for) cars that require some routine maintenance and insurance.
I do have two dogs that require food and the occasional vet payment.
I do have a Thai wife who gets a reasonable personal allowance and likes to use the telephone a lot.
I do drink a fair amount of wine (at home) and wine is expensive here and I do have the occasional tipple of a good single malt scotch. (guilty pleasures, you have to have at least one!)
We do take a three day trip to Bangkok about every three months to keep from going stir crazy and to pick up our maintenance medications which are 30% cheaper there than in Hua Hin.
We do go on one vacation per year (4 or 5 days) to another part of Thailand, again to keep from going stir crazy here.

Buksi probably gave you the best answer here:

There is no definitive answer to this topic as everyone has different lifestyle expectations and priorities.

Sure, you can live here cheaply, I know three people who live in small "flats" in Thai neighborhoods and mostly use fans for cooling, drink Chang beer, have no personal transportation, and don't have any expensive hobbies, but do you want to live like that? I don't call that living.

I have many more acquaintances here with whom I have discussed this very question (monthly budget) and all have weighed in at around 100k baht per month. Some are English, some American, and some Scandinavian.

If you want to live here and not worry about the exchange rate or inflation and don't want to be one of those people who always eats noodles and drinks Thai beer only where it is 5 baht less that the other places, then you better plan well and maybe ask more specific questions based on the kind of life you expect to live in Hua Hin.

[kalbow]

Ok, folks just throwing out some numbers that I have used in my budget. This is based on limited experience and heresay in the main. I haven't included any allowances (wife/in-laws etc), child costs or personal interest/travel etc.

As Margaret and others have pointed out it's all a bit of a gamble - too many variables Thai Govt, exchange rates, economy/inflation. For my projected budget I averaged out exchange rates over the last 5 years and applied inflation as an average of 2.5% (yes, I know it's a lot higher at the moment). As for Thai Govt. policies -just hope for the best.

Cheers
Kalbow

House (own, medium size 2/3 bedroom) Total 14,800

• Insurance 400
  Property Charges 3,000
  House tax 800
  House maintenance 4,000
  Water 200
  Electricity 2,000
  Pool 3,400
  Internet 1,000

Condo (own, approx 70sqm) Total 5,125

• Insurance 700
  Property Charges 3,000
  Water 125
  Electricity 500
  Maintenance 800

Car (new) Total 9,550

• Insurance 1,800
  Maintenance 2,500
  Fuel 4,583
  Registration (4D Pickup) 667

Motorbike Total 1,150

• Insurance 150
  Maintenance 250
  Fuel 500
  Registration 250

Other Total 16,583

• Groceries (2 persons) 12,500
  Immigration 750
  Health & Insurance 2,500
  Mobile (top up) 833

[Spitfire]

It's a myth that it's cheap here (well, now it is), especially in holiday beach resort cities like Hua Hin. You can live cheaply, as the locals do, but if you want all the luxuries from what you might have been used to from whence you came, then it has pretty much become the same price as living in somewhere like the US, with a couple of notable exceptions such as buying houses.

It is definitly not the deal it once was here and, as mentioned above, depends on your lifestyle choices, will vary for all members as it is a pretty diverse collection of people.

If you choose to live in a house that resembles a country manor with gardens to rival the Versialle Palace in France, then so be it. What do you expect?

To live a quiet and relaxed life does not need to be expensive, it's when you start doing privilaged (or at least that which is perceived as so here) things/activities that it starts to rocket in cost.

Some of the figures quoted so far on the first page are a little frivolous imo and would only need to be so for a small % of folks.

As has been mentioned too already, 60-70k baht per month is enough to pay for a car/house and wife (non gambling and drinking type)+kids. But if you want to play golf all the time and eat at fancy resaurants 3-4 times a week in town then you can up it to 100k just for those two extras.

Not even going to go into the bar scene costs on this thread if you're a 'night warrior'.

Depends what your 'pastimes' are, I guess.

Edit - Little bit of extra comment added.

[Farang]

I know of two gentlemen, one of them rather well-off, who live as cheaply as they can. They both claim that all their local expenses - rent, food, transport, booze & frolic, and such - are no more than 700 THB/day.
I do not think this covers international travel nor their insurances, just the local costs. This seems to hold as long as nothing unexpected happens.

One of the gentlemen lives this way because he must, the other because it seems to be a character trait.

Live cheaply? Yes, they can!

[Siani]

You can live cheaply, as the locals do, but if you want all the luxuries from what you might have been used to from whence you came, then it has pretty much become the same price as living in somewhere like the US, with a couple of notable exceptions such as buying houses.
]

Houses in the US are very cheap now, as cheap as here in some parts. The property crash, low dollar made them more affordable. Also in the US you own the land, whereas you do not here.
Property in HH is not really that cheap. The problem with the property market here is that it is not a good investment at the moment. We have been looking for a house/condo. I have been told..oh, they paid 9 million baht...they will now take 6.5 million and so on. Makes you a big nervous committing to buy in the present climate.

[johnnyk]

Its all horses for courses.
Some want to live 100% western-style, others can make do more Thai-style.
Golf, girls, heavy drinking and falang meals every day will add up.

[Super Joe]

I know SJ was being a bit hypothetical and off the OP's mark there - But seriously, at home no-one would need immigration fees/tea money/health insurance for starters. (Or - let's get real - inlaw donations!)

Yes I inadvertently left in-laws in, but I excluded immigration/tea money, and 1 in 8 have health insurance in the UK, and how many more who are forced forced to pay private due to waiting times. As I said it’s just a comprehensive list of things I could think of, I did say it's we nor or anyone needs all of them, it was mainly to substantiate the 120k figure hhf mentioned after a few posts said it was OTT. Not everything may be relative to the OP's circumstances, but I'm sure they'll be others reading this, like Kalbow.

I think 120k is a realistic figure to look at in general, ofcourse people live comfortably on 60-90k a month, but I don't see that's the only advice to give relative newcomers, it doesn’t allow for all manner of unexpected eventualities, a real one being the retirement 'visa' extension financial criteria of 65k Baht/month income (800k bank or combination). This hasn’t increased for over 10 years, but it will, the last time it increased to this 65k was from just 20k Baht/month (200k bank), not everything’s being 'grandfathered' either as we saw with 'marriage' visas. A few years ago it equated to 1,000 Pounds/month pension, if it went up to 95,000 Baht/month that would mean 2,000 Pounds with todays exchange rates.

Hopefully the exchange rates have done all their damage, but how many people have been seriously affected by what’s happened recently, their 120k may only be 80k now as hhf said. We're all heading towards health issue ages, if someone wants to factor in a full-time maid/help with house/garden/pool then there’s a figure.


Again maybe not for OP based on what he’s said, apologies Gwyn, but how come over promising never to marry & have kids again only to do just that (or take on a step-child). You want to school your new child in Yamsaard or Somtawin, you feel obligated to help the in-laws etc, your budget goes out the window. And what about divorce, hardly unheard of due to age/culture cash, lose 50% of the house and you may have to sell up to settle. Renting is another tricky one if you’re on a retirement income that’s only growing with inflation (see excellent inflation article here by m_right... viewtopic.php?f=9&t=17321&p=203244&hili ... on#p203244).
Rents track property values >> property values outstrip inflation (the value of your income/money) >> 15k/month house rental you’ve budgeted for today, should really have been 30k, 45k/month... 'maybe'. Rents have increased where we are by over 100% in last few years, it's one hell of a volatile component in a developing town/market like Hua Hin.

Super Joe - so translating (just the first 4 items...):
US$1000 car finance/tax/ins/repairs
US$1000 wife allowance food/groceries/clothes/make-up/toiletries/small bills)
US$2000 entertainment/meals out/drinking/clothes/golf/local trips/gym/hobbies - US$500 gardener/pool cleaner/house cleaner etc. Monthly!
That does seem rather a lot to me. Not questioning how you spend your money, but I think most people could get by on somewhat less. Probably quite easily.

Yes agree, I did say that basically, but many people come out here and build a big house on a large plot etc and go mad because everything appears cheap in isolation.
- 30k Baht car, many farangs buy Fortuner type 4x4's that'd be the costs on 4yr finance. I did do it when first arrived, now share the missus’ truck and ride the Fino.
- 30k Baht allowance, that’s 15k for groceries/toiletries/small bills that crop up, I think that’s in line with many (there's 3 of us), and I don't think the wife having 500 Baht/day to spend is excessive, is it? it’s the same as Lomu's.
- 60k entertainment, eating out, drinking, golf, hobbies etc, yes OTT granted, bad example, point taken.
- 15k maid, gardener, pool maintenance, yes high, so only if you need full-time maid/helper, have pool & large gardener.


SJ