Eczema

[lindosfan1]

The important thing to do is to carry on with the medicine after the itching stops complete the course. A
good result for the first day.

[PeteC]

Well, the day deteriorates a bit. Itch came back about 1000 hours, cream and pills have kept it reasonable up until now. Hope I have another good night tonight. Can't expect miracles within the 1st 24 hours, but it was nice wishing. Pete

[Paderborn]

Hello Pete & everyone involved in this thread.
I couldn't believe it when I read all your experiences. I like you Pete, started with a type of excema at aged 53 known as Pompholic Excema. I have never even had sensitive skin at all in my life.
For ages, at first I though it was ant bites on my hands and feet, as I spend a lot of time in the garden.
Then one night I was watching TV I was scratching the latest "ant" bite on my left hand ring finger... by the end of the film I had a cluster of 24...burning and itching lumps driving me mad.

So, I started to dig around on the internet only to cross match my symptoms with Pompholic Excema.

I went to see the senior dermatologist at Bummrungrad hospital, who confirmed the condition, only to be told, not sure what causes it, no cure, given a steroid cream (Dermovate) for topical application. Told to "use sparingly" (with a 5 gram tube I had no choice!) and was given a list of dont's. Avoid soaps, perfumes, shampoo, detergents, nickle, rubber, plastic, heat, sweating!!
Well, I may as well get on the plane now, to go back the cold & rainy UK, as living in Thailand should not be an option with this condition. The first attack of Pompholic is frequently triggered by hot weather.

I have recently been back to UK for 2 months and no sign of the excema there, but since my return to Hua Hin just over 3 three weeks ago a few new outbreaks have appeared on my hands and souls of my feet.
I try not to use the steroid cream as it makes your skin thin and more susceptable in the longer term to cracking and fissures. a problem in itself.

I have read however, that the only sucess with this condition is through Chinese medicine, the cause as I understand it, is something to do with dampness & heat causing fire toxins in spleen & liver. The most thorough article that have I come across, decribing this is type of skin is by in the Journal of Chinese medicine
http://www.jcm.co.uk/jcm-article-archiv ... -medicine/ I am not sure if such a long link will post)
You will find there are many articles there on excema and other skin problems.

I have looked into the hospitals in Bangkok with Chinese medicine and alternative therapy departments. The largest and most extensive appears to be at St Louis Hospital, Bangkok. I have made an appointment to see a specialist there next Tuesday. So keep your fingers crossed for a good outcome. I understand that treatment should take between 7 & 14 weeks depending on severity. Excema in whatever form is a real pain in the backside.
I will report back on my experiences.
Cheers Paderborn

[dtaai-maai]

Excema in whatever form is a real pain in the backside.

Talking of scratching your fingers, I no longer wear a ring since that started to cause me problems.

[PeteC]

Thanks for that Paderborn. I'll read into that article, and good luck with your treatment. Please let us know what happens.

This recurring theme of "heat and sweat" has me thinking. This all started within a few days of a really tough, physical day I had here about a month ago. We've taken out the backyard and part of the side grass (no sun and dying) and had a crew lay decorative paving stones. Before they started I had to move (or wanted to move for the exercise) about 60 slate step stones weighing about 15-18 kilos each. I had to move each of them about 50 meters and lay them in a pattern. It took me about 4 hours in the afternoon sun and I tell you, the last 3 stones were a struggle and I had to draw upon my "never quit" ethic to finish it. I was well beaten into the ground, sweating buckets and took hours to recover. For better or worse I really hit the beer hard that evening as I needed it! A day or two after that, all this starts. Perhaps no relation at all, but an interesting coincidence of beat up body, weakened physical condition followed by a barrel of beer....then the onset. Pete

[MrPlum]

Thanks DTM. Perhaps this thread will lure Mr. P back.

Consider me 'lured'. Happy to help if I can, although you know I'm a great believer in tackling the root cause, rather than just settling for relief.

As always, this is just my opinion and others may not agree.

I've read hundreds of 'feedback' from sufferers, adults and children, attempting to resolve skin conditions, some severe. Topical applications can help small outbreaks but when the problem is systemic, it's a different ball game. Those who are able to find a modicum of relief see the condition return time and again. Steroids can work like magic but clearly eczema is not due to a deficiency of (risky) synthetic cortisol, so the answer must lie elsewhere.

So the first question is, is your eczema superficial or is it a reflection of your internal state (systemic)? If the latter, then no amount of lotions are going to cure you.

It's important to understand how our bodies work in a general sense. We are biological organisms. If a plant is grown in poor soil, depleted of nutrients or poisoned by chemicals, it may not flower and will be susceptible to attack by parasites, fungi, bacteria. The plant cannot thrive when the soil or 'terrain' is poor. It is weak. Any gardener understands this. He may replace the topsoil, provide the proper balance of nutrients and the plant recovers and blooms. If you are like Prince Charles, you may also talk soothingly to the plant.

So what about our inner 'soil'? The laws of nature apply to us equally, despite the arrogance of science. Yet, what do we do? Do we look at the quality of our soil (our inner terrain?) Do we ensure we are getting the right balance of nutrients? No. We swallow a synthetic chemical, which relieves one problem, only to cause two more.

"The germ is nothing. The terrain is everything." Louis Pasteur.

The problem I find with many conditions is that there are so many touted causes attributed to the symptoms we experience. With so many theories and experts, most of which seem plausible, it is very confusing and often contradictory. It's impossible for the layman to make head or tail of it. To cut through this confusion, I stick to the basics. To strategies that have worked for thousands of years. If the primary causes of disease are inadequate nutrition and/or toxicity within the body, then the logical step is to clean the body and flood it with nutrients. Like the plant, our bodies will then heal.

This biological principle is fundamental to natural systems like Ayurveda. Cleansing is known as 'Panchakarma'. Brief summary here... http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18047449

The Chinese and Thai Traditional systems are derived from Ayurveda. In the Thai system, which is a cut down version, they use massage and herbal steam saunas to mobilize and excrete metabolic waste products, drug residues, by-products of poor digestion, fecal matter, fat, chemicals, heavy metals and other 'toxins', gumming up the works.

Today, our organs and channels of elimination and detoxification are being overwhelmed by the environmental and chemical assault on them. Digestive disorders, insufficient water, proper fats, poor nourishment, acid states and a lack of exercise mean that toxicity builds within the body until you reach a tipping point and the body dumps its toxic load through the skin (your heavy sweating day). This is said to be one cause of acne, eczema, psoriasis, boils and other dermatological conditions.

'Fire' types are more susceptible to skin eruptions due to their propensity towards heat. The heat can raise the internal temperature enough so that waste matter (called 'Ama') starts to dissolve and mobilize towards the skin for elimination. We sweat a lot of toxins out of the skin in the tropics. In colder countries saunas are used to encourage 'detox' through the skin. 'Sweat Lodges' are a similar idea.

So for chronic skin conditions, like chronic (and degenerative) disorders, my approach would always be the same. Expel whatever is poisoning the pond and give the body the raw materials it needs to fortify and repair itself. Big Macs and fries don't cut it. If you are hooked on these kinds of foods, get off them. Otherwise dig yourself an early grave.

In my experience 'detoxing' it is one of the most beneficial things you can do for yourself. It is also far easier than people believe. I am currently on Day 8 of a juice fast and feeling great. Energized, clean and my mind more clear and alert than when I started. I've done these cleanses many times and look forward to them. I could go up to 30 days or longer but it's usually 7-10. This time I'm using the juice fasts to experiment. This time I'm experimenting with removing Fluoride from the body using Tamarind juice. I'm also experimenting with using a Thai plant to remove Fluoride from water.

Those who are long-term eczema sufferers may wish to take note that eczema has cleared up for some sufferers, only when they have removed fluoride from their water.

That particular train of thought aside, these articles from Pubmed offer some simpler options.

Spitfire mentioned Licorice.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14522625

Licorice is interesting. It's an adaptogen. i.e. it supports the adrenals. The adrenals produce cortisol, which dampens down inflammation and histamine responses. If cortisol levels are low, perhaps due to adrenal exhaustion, then inflammation and allergies can be triggered. The fact that the synthetic corticosteroid provides relief could be an indicator that you aren't producing sufficient cortisol yourself. There are usually other symptoms so google 'low cortisol' if you are minded. Sourcing products from outside Thailand is a problem. I buy licorice powder from Makro but don't rely on it solely, in case it's been stripped of its therapeutic properties.

I'm a vitamin supplement junky SF so for sure it can't be a deficiency there.

If you have a quality source I'd be interested in details. Many vitamin supplements are synthetic and minerals inorganic, and the public are being royally ripped-off. Vitamin C derived from GM corn, sweetened with Aspartame, then sold as 'natural' is just one example of deception in the industry.

What supplements are you taking? According to my Ayurvedic 'Bible' a deficiency of any of 'B6', Inositol, Sulfur and Bioflavonoids, can cause eczema.

I do like what I read about Vitamin therapy ('Orthomolecular Medicine'). Linus Pauling was a founder. Andrew Saul is a witty advocate and worth reading.

Vitamins alone are only part of the picture. You still need vitalized, not dead, foods. Since it's hard work munching through a plate of lettuce, a decent juicer is mandatory in our home.

OK, here's the list of meds. She only gave me enough for 7 days. Pete

1) Prednisolone tablets (corticosteriod), 5mg, 2 after each meal.

When itching is driving you crazy, corticosteroids are absolutely 'magic bullets' but as you've read, they don't address the root cause and the eczema will keep coming back. According to many naturopaths, suppressing symptoms only kicks the can down the road. Eczema today = arthritis (or something else more serious) tomorrow. The pattern resulting from suppression is said to be 'Acute' to 'Chronic', then 'Chronic' to 'Degenerative'.

I would enjoy the relief the medication provides and then use the opportunity to take a good look at what I'm doing to create this condition, then resolve it.

The 7 days is because the side effects of synthetic corticosteroids are serious.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prednisolo ... se_effects.

For small outbreaks of eczema these remedies have helped..

1. Apple Cider Vinegar.
This is one of the first things I would try. Dilute 50/50 with water, dab it on the eczema and take 2 x tablespoons internally per day. Use ACV with 'The Mother'. Even though it's pricey, cheaper vinegars are NOT suitable.

2. Hydrogen Peroxide
Buy a bottle of 3% for 30thb from any pharmacy. Brush it on your skin 2-3x per day or directly on the eczema. It will itch more initially, then settle down.

3. Iodine Tincture.
Paint it on the eczema. I have found this very effective on the creases in the elbows and behind the knees and where coconut oil or ACV haven't worked. Too many applications can cause the skin to scale and fall off. You may not care, if it works. I didn't.

4. Coconut Oil
For some people ACV doesn't work and coconut oil does.

5. Papaya
Rub the inner skin of the fruit against the eczema. Haven't tried this yet but it's an Ayurvedic remedy.

[caller]

Welcome back Mr.P.

Your post reminded me, and as its such a part of my life, that it kind of isn't part of my thought processes if you know what I mean, that eczema often goes hand-in-hand with other aliments, the obvious being asthma and hayfever.

Which in turn are often linked to allergies. Now I know allergies have become a byword for modern living, but when I was a kid they weren't. I am still aware of different moulds in the air at differing times of the year and the effect they have on me and deal with it accordingly, just as in different parts of the UK, certain grasses and crops can make life tricky (rapeseed crops are not good for hayfever sufferers).

And DM has mentioned an allergy to chlorine.

So Pete, have you considered having some allergy tests to see if they can identify the cause of the problem?

[sjpthsuk]

Suffer from Psorasis myself and have done since i was 16/17yo - as you can imagine these early years were hard especially the way teenagers are. Tried all the creams/ointments, been in hospital, the lot and very little seems to fix it - ok Dovonex which i use puts it away, put it comes back in time.
Dermovate/Betnovate, etc., are steroid based and although it clears it up, when it comes back it spreads more across the body, also being exposed to steroids for prolonged timescales reduces the body resistance to fighting other illnesses. Sun was good at first, but then i developed prickly heat and too much sun not brings me out in a really small rash all over the body so its no longer an option for me.
I did try homeopath medicine and almost had it cured, it had pills and a special diet, but it got too close to xmas one year and i had a blow out on foods that were bad for me, and went from one small patch on my foot to total body again.
I believe Eczema is not as drastic as Psorasis and you should be able to keep it controlled, there was a good coaltar based ointment that came out of Singapore that was supposed to work wonders for it but i can't remember the brand name - maybe a websearch will find it.

Don't envy your problem a bit, wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy, all i hope is it clears up for you.

[PeteC]

Thanks Mr.P. This is all so new to me I'm still trying to wrap my head around it all and do a lot of reading, your links and suggestions included now. You're right in that at my age and with it never happening before, something triggered it that was never a trigger before and I need to try to find out what that is. Yes, that particular work day referenced I exhausted myself to an extent that I hadn't in years, but far from the first time here that I heavily exerted myself/sweated profusely. Something seemed to tip the scales that day though. I'll continue to report as I go through steps and try remedies that are not steroid based, and the more difficult lifestyle changes.

I've never been allergic to anything Caller, so no tests yet. I shouldn't say never as my sinus close rather than open when eating too many chilies, chalk dust compliments of the Nuns who made me clap erasers, and cheap newspapers/magazines that smell of ink. Never anything serious. I think part of this may be a periodic metabolism change brought on by age. My twin brother and sister who are 9 years my senior reported minor unusual changes as they advanced through their 60's. Thanks to everyone and stayed tuned. Pete

[PeteC]

Forgot about the vitamin supplement question. I realize that the quality of these things are in question, but hopefully I'm getting something out of them:

1) Centrum Silver overall supplement
2) Natural C (Mega, Australia licensed but made here) 2000 mg per day
3) Natural B ( ditto) total B spectrum
4) Amway Garlic, 4 tablets per day and fresh garlic daily when I don't have to talk to strangers!
5) Amway Fish Oil, 4 gel caps per day

Pete

[PeteC]

...also to note. After my early morning HHF session went for a swim which I hadn't done since the Doc told me to stay away from chlorine, and actually about ever since the rash broke out. Pool is saltwater chlorinated and after an hour of relaxing and swimming for exercise, I don't itch, and I haven't used any cream or pills this morning yet.

As RZR mentioned, I'm looking for alternatives that work regardless of the standard speech the Docs give. Pete

[Spitfire]

Interesting you mention Amway supplements Pete, they do that 'Double X' pack of vitamins and minerals plus a phytonutrient pill which seems to be a good choice of pill. Think Amway own the 'Nutrilite' brand these days.

Only problem is the price, pretty scary at over 2k baht a pack for that 'Double X'. I would be interested in a decent easily/widely available phytonutrient pill, should someone be able to recommend. Usually I get the 'rabbit in the headlights' look when I ask for phytonutrients at health product dispensaries here.

In general, I use Blackmores supplements as they are decentish but not to crazily priced, plus manufactured in Oz so has to meet some western standards, if that's a good thing.

[MrPlum]

Welcome back Mr.P.

Your post reminded me, and as its such a part of my life, that it kind of isn't part of my thought processes if you know what I mean, that eczema often goes hand-in-hand with other aliments, the obvious being asthma and hayfever.

Because of adaptation we tend to adjust to our conditions, no matter how uncomfortable. Unless we are in crisis, we soldier on. I don't believe that these conditions are incurable because I've heard from people who have found cures.

It seems some liver transplant patients have experienced the same allergies as the donor. http://www.allergenbureau.net/news/prev ... transplant

This suggests the Liver is involved. A series of Liver flushes is something to consider. As are Liver-specific herbs.

A RAST test can identify full-blown allergies but not say, food intolerances. The RAST test (skin-prick) was not always reliable and as far as I know it has been replaced by IGE and IGG tests.

I have had some food sensitivity tests over the years and found Applied Kinesiology (muscle response testing) and VEGA testing educational but I'm not sure how accurate they are. It depends on the skill of the practitioner. I would match what they are telling you to your own experience and if it gels, then you can have confidence.

There is a food sensitivity test you can try at home. It's called the 'Coco Pulse Test'. It's easy to do. Look it up and please report back if you try it.

You may not realize you have them but food intolerances are more subtle than full blown allergies but they can create havoc over time. IBS, Inflammatory bowel disease, malabsorption, 'leaky gut' and a host of other digestive problems.

What's the cause? There are several touted..

Vaccinations, making the immune system hyper-sensitive.
Low levels of cortisol.
Children being raised on bottled milk and not breast milk.
The sterile environments we grow up in mean our immune systems are not being exposed to pathogens.
Stress. Plays havoc with digestion and your immune system.
Insufficient water. The body cannot flush out toxins if you aren't properly hydrated.
Incorrect oils. Some metabolic processes cannot work correctly if you only eat industrialized fats and oils.
Wrong diet for your metabolic type.

The difficulty is knowing who to turn to for assistance. In Hua Hin there is Chiva-Som but you can't access their health practitioners unless you actually stay. In Chiang Mai you have places like Tao Gardens. I've had mixed reports from them. In Phuket there is Atmanjai. In Bangkok, some alternative practitioners can be found at TRIA. It's attached to Piyavate Hospital... http://www.triaintegrativewellness.com/ I paid 4000 thb for a 90-minute interview with an Ayurvedic practitioner there.

This is where some people get stuck. You just know that over time you are going to have to spend money. They will spend money on a holiday, a new car, expensive meals, even 10 bottles of Chang a night and a few bar fines. But on trying to sort themselves out? They suck in their breath in shock and say "How much?!" "It's only 300 thb to see my Thai Doctor!" I'm just as guilty as anyone else with this.

It is difficult. How do you make healing accessible to all budgets? Doctors of any stripe have to make a living too. In the old days they were paid poorly. It wasn't until modern medicine elevated their status that Doctors began to live more comfortably. I've found traditional, caring Doctors who live in India and charge peanuts. But they are a rarity.

So who do I know that has cured themselves?

I have a friend who cured himself of prostate Cancer, Arthritis and Allergies and is now a Naturopathic Doctor. After spending years hopping from one therapy to another, at great cost, he finally bit the bullet and tried Dr Richard Schulze' 'Incurables' Program, which he says he stuck to religiously. It took him 3 months. Not 3 minutes in a Doctor's surgery. It may take less than this, it may take more. It depends on the seriousness of the illness, the techniques adopted and the motivation of the patient. Gerson clinics, like the 'biological clinics' in Sweden and Germany claim to achieve good results in 2-3 weeks. Here's a long-established one.. http://www.buchinger.com/en/therapeutic-methods.html

Who is Richard Schulze? He's a very 'dangerous' man. You can't go around curing people. It's embarrassing. The FDA and AMA goon squad shut him down. Violently. He's an offspring of the Thomsonian School of healing. Brief history... http://modernherbaleducation.com/articl ... ism-2.html

I have another friend, locally, who says a cleanse in Sweden cured his severe childhood Asthma. He now does this twice a year and lives life to the full outside of the cleanses. No monastic life for him.

I can't give my friends numbers out without permission but I'm sure they would be happy to talk to anyone about their experiences. So pm me if you are interested in knowing more and I'll ask them.

Is there a herbal 'Magic Bullet' for Allergy? There are several. You could research Tinospora Cordifolia or Spirulina, that are supported by studies or some Thai herbs = 'Fa Thalai Chon'; Mangosteen Peel (food allergy); 'Phak Chi Lom' (asthma, allergies); Papaya (daily); 'Rang Chuet' (asthma, allergies).

Neem ('Sadao') is considered a natural pharmacy in itself and may be the best choice of all. Apply the oil or leaf for eczema and I would also take it internally as a blood cleanser and bitter tonic for the liver.

That's probably too much info for you. Sorry about that. It's been useful to me.

I'm not a Doctor, so interpret what I say accordingly.

[MrPlum]

Forgot about the vitamin supplement question. I realize that the quality of these things are in question, but hopefully I'm getting something out of them:

I'll leave it to Andrew Saul to provide some insights... http://www.doctoryourself.com/synthetic.html

Do you feel better as a result of taking them? Why not stop taking them for a few weeks and see if you notice any difference? You might save yourself a small fortune.

[BaaBaa.]

As a kid I had it on the soles of my feet, it was literally like somebody had taken a blade to my feet. I struggled to walk some mornings. Magically cleared up at about 16 though.

Still get dry skin on my face though, especially after flying or drinking.

Nivea is a must after a shower. Metrosexual.