Selling House after Death of Wife?

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Super Joe
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Re: Selling House after Death of Wife?

Post by Super Joe »

Lung Per wrote:My Thai wife and I just built a house in her village, estimated cost 1.2 million THB.
In case of her untimely death (Lawd forbid), I want to sell the house and retrieve my cost.
She wants the house to be passed on to her sons, two of which work and live in Bangkok and one still in school, not of age.
QUESTION: Can I sell the house and retrieve the cost, or must I pass it on to her family?
The crucial bit of info that makes a massive difference to this scenario is... HAS YOUR WIFE DONE A WILL. It would appear as not. Also I'm basing the following comments on the assumption that you are entitled to 50% of the property under the 'marital assets' law.

With a will:
1) Your wife can not simply 'will' the property to her sons anyway if she has a legal spouse at time of death, she can only will her share in the property, ie: 50%.

Without a will:
1) The property is not yours to sell. Part of it belongs to her surviving relatives under the law. Wills couldn't be more important IMO.
2) The state will dissolve her estate to the 'statutory heirs' according to Thai Civil & Commercial Codes, which anyone can go google and read a translation in English.
3) They distribute her half of the property (assuming above 'marital asset' thing) to the statutory heirs AFTER weighing out the surviving spouse with said 50%.
4) Surviving spouse IS NOT one of the classes of statutory heirs (1. descendants, 2. parents, 3. brothers & sisters pump up the volume, 4. half-brothers & sisters, 5. aunts & uncles, 6. grandparents).... but said spouse is entitled to a share equal to other heirs in whichever class cleans up. Lower classes of statutory heirs are not entitled should an heir exist in a higher class bar one exception.

Sooo.... without a legal will (and based on your wife having 3 descendants), I believe you will be entitled (from the inheritence side of things) to a 25% share of her half share of the property. Plus your assumed marital asset 50% share. Interestingly, given there's a school child involved, it could be the case that your inheritence share is exactly equal to that of the child's Thai father (representing the child) who done the off at day one :shock:


From Thai Civil & Commercial Codes...

CHAPTER II
DIVISION INTO PORTIONS BETWEEN SEVERAL CLASSES AND DEGREES OF STATUTORY HEIRS

Section 1629. There are only six classes of statutory heir;and subject to the provisions of Section 1630 paragraph 2, each class is entitled to inherit in the following order:
1) descendants;
2) parents;
3) brothers and sisters of full blood;
4) brothers and sisters of half blood;
5) grandparents;
6) uncles and aunts.
The surviving spouse is also a statutory heir, subject to the special provisions of Section 1635.


CHAPTER III
DIVISION INTO SHARES BETWEEN THE STATUTORY HEIRS IN EACH CLASS AND DEGREE
PART II
SPOUSES

Section 1635. The surviving spouse is entitled to the inheritance of the deceased in the class and according to the division as hereunder provided:
(1) if there is an heir according to Section 1629 (1) surviving or having representatives as the case may be, such surviving spouse is entitled to the same share as an heir in the degree of children;
(2) if there is an heir according to Section 1629 (3) and such heir is surviving or has representatives, or if in default of an heir according to Section 1629 (1), there is an heir according to Section 1629 (2) as the case may be, such surviving spouse is entitled to one half of the inheritance;
(3) if there is an heir according to Section 1629 (4) or (6) and such heir is surviving or has representatives, or if there is an heir according to Section 1629 (5) as the case may be, such surviving spouse is entitled to two-thirds of the inheritance;
(4) if there is no heir as specified in Section 1629, such surviving spouse is entitled to the whole inheritance.
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Re: Selling House after Death of Wife?

Post by Khundon1975 »

Super Joe
Never could understand Thai inheritance laws :wink:

A question for you, if you don't mind.

If Mother in law dies without a will, does property pass to only child or is it shared out amongst those in
Chapter11 and Chapter 111?

Thanks

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Re: Selling House after Death of Wife?

Post by Super Joe »

Khundon1975 wrote:Super Joe
A question for you, if you don't mind.
If Mother in law dies without a will, does property pass to only child or is it shared out amongst those in Chapter11 and Chapter 111?
Thanks
Yes, an only child would inherit 100% if there was no surviving married spouse. And nor was there any surviving parents of the mother-in-law as parents get an equal share with descendents if both classes are surviving. This descendent/parent heir class 'sharing' is the only exception to the rule that heirs in lower classes have no inheritence entitlement should there be surviving heirs in any higher class.

Hope that's clear Don :laugh:

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Re: Selling House after Death of Wife?

Post by Lung Per »

Super Joe wrote:
Lung Per wrote:My Thai wife and I just built a house in her village, estimated cost 1.2 million THB.
In case of her untimely death (Lawd forbid), I want to sell the house and retrieve my cost.
She wants the house to be passed on to her sons, two of which work and live in Bangkok and one still in school, not of age.
QUESTION: Can I sell the house and retrieve the cost, or must I pass it on to her family?
The crucial bit of info that makes a massive difference to this scenario is... HAS YOUR WIFE DONE A WILL. It would appear as not. Also I'm basing the following comments on the assumption that you are entitled to 50% of the property under the 'marital assets' law.

With a will:
1) Your wife can not simply 'will' the property to her sons anyway if she has a legal spouse at time of death, she can only will her share in the property, ie: 50%.

Without a will:
1) The property is not yours to sell. Part of it belongs to her surviving relatives under the law. Wills couldn't be more important IMO.
2) The state will dissolve her estate to the 'statutory heirs' according to Thai Civil & Commercial Codes, which anyone can go google and read a translation in English.
3) They distribute her half of the property (assuming above 'marital asset' thing) to the statutory heirs AFTER weighing out the surviving spouse with said 50%.
4) Surviving spouse IS NOT one of the classes of statutory heirs (1. descendants, 2. parents, 3. brothers & sisters pump up the volume, 4. half-brothers & sisters, 5. aunts & uncles, 6. grandparents).... but said spouse is entitled to a share equal to other heirs in whichever class cleans up. Lower classes of statutory heirs are not entitled should an heir exist in a higher class bar one exception.

Sooo.... without a legal will (and based on your wife having 3 descendants), I believe you will be entitled (from the inheritence side of things) to a 25% share of her half share of the property. Plus your assumed marital asset 50% share. Interestingly, given there's a school child involved, it could be the case that your inheritence share is exactly equal to that of the child's Thai father (representing the child) who done the off at day one :shock:


From Thai Civil & Commercial Codes...

CHAPTER II
DIVISION INTO PORTIONS BETWEEN SEVERAL CLASSES AND DEGREES OF STATUTORY HEIRS

Section 1629. There are only six classes of statutory heir;and subject to the provisions of Section 1630 paragraph 2, each class is entitled to inherit in the following order:
1) descendants;
2) parents;
3) brothers and sisters of full blood;
4) brothers and sisters of half blood;
5) grandparents;
6) uncles and aunts.
The surviving spouse is also a statutory heir, subject to the special provisions of Section 1635.


CHAPTER III
DIVISION INTO SHARES BETWEEN THE STATUTORY HEIRS IN EACH CLASS AND DEGREE
PART II
SPOUSES

Section 1635. The surviving spouse is entitled to the inheritance of the deceased in the class and according to the division as hereunder provided:
(1) if there is an heir according to Section 1629 (1) surviving or having representatives as the case may be, such surviving spouse is entitled to the same share as an heir in the degree of children;
(2) if there is an heir according to Section 1629 (3) and such heir is surviving or has representatives, or if in default of an heir according to Section 1629 (1), there is an heir according to Section 1629 (2) as the case may be, such surviving spouse is entitled to one half of the inheritance;
(3) if there is an heir according to Section 1629 (4) or (6) and such heir is surviving or has representatives, or if there is an heir according to Section 1629 (5) as the case may be, such surviving spouse is entitled to two-thirds of the inheritance;
(4) if there is no heir as specified in Section 1629, such surviving spouse is entitled to the whole inheritance.
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Re: Selling House after Death of Wife?

Post by Khundon1975 »

Super Joe wrote:
Khundon1975 wrote:Super Joe
A question for you, if you don't mind.
If Mother in law dies without a will, does property pass to only child or is it shared out amongst those in Chapter11 and Chapter 111?
Thanks
Yes, an only child would inherit 100% if there was no surviving married spouse. And nor was there any surviving parents of the mother-in-law as parents get an equal share with descendents if both classes are surviving. This descendent/parent heir class 'sharing' is the only exception to the rule that heirs in lower classes have no inheritence entitlement should there be surviving heirs in any higher class.

Hope that's clear Don :laugh:

SJ
Super Joe

Thanks for that, very helpful. I have spent much of my life studying very complex construction contracts before signing them but Thai inheritance laws make my head hurt. :cuss:

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Re: Selling House after Death of Wife?

Post by Super Joe »

Khundon1975 wrote:Thanks for that, very helpful. I have spent much of my life studying very complex construction contracts before signing them but Thai inheritance laws make my head hurt
...and JCT 80's used to make my head hurt!!

:cheers:
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Re: Selling House after Death of Wife?

Post by BOZ »

Well i know I will sleep a lot better tonight knowing I have little luck getting out of here with any of my funds if the worst was ever to happen.... First thing after we close is a solid will naming only me as sole beneficiary.... Sounds like a bucket worms to me either way...
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Re: Selling House after Death of Wife?

Post by 07Feline »

Hi, is this still available? I have a Cirencester estate agency and we are interested with this. Let me know if we could discuss this soon? Thanks!
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Re: Selling House after Death of Wife?

Post by Name Taken »

Nereus wrote:
Lung Per wrote:I want to sell the house and retrieve my cost.
All you experts that have not been down that road, READ what the OP has asked!
What may, or may not be written in the law, comes under the same filing system as driving down the wrong side of the road, or any other of the "laws" in Thailand that can and will be interpreted as the Judge sees fit!
:agree:
I don't know of any court cases in Thailand where a foreigner has won.
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Re: Selling House after Death of Wife?

Post by HHTel »

Well, Name Taken, you know of one now!

My wife thought everything belonged to her after our divorce but the judge in court showed how wrong she was. She was ordered to leave the house so I and my children could move back in. The court ordered the house to be sold with 50 percent going to each of us.

N.B. The house is going to take years to sell. It's a big house on over a rai of land and nobody is buying that kind of property. So the kids and I will live here for the foreseeable future as we intended. Only difference is there's no wife around.
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Re: Selling House after Death of Wife?

Post by Name Taken »

Nereus wrote:
jingjoe wrote:if she is your legal wife, you have 12months from her death to sell the house,all monies go to you as the spouse.Thai law recognizes husband/wife and even in divorce its 50/50 of anything accumalated during marriage(not before).
I am sure that you have posted what you believe in good faith, but believe me, it does not work in practice! A legally drawn up will certainly would help, but it only takes one person out of the remaining "heirs" to lodge an objection with the courts, and you are looking at 10 years for it to work it`s way through the Thai legal system, with no guarantee that you will win at the end of it! The OP has already stated that his wife wants her kids to have it, and she is still alive!
I think it's very strange that some foreigners here in Thailand never have any problems at all (tea money, visa's, police "checkpoints" etc.) and other foreigners have nothing but problems living here.
Could it be that the rose tinted glasses brigades aren't telling the truth?
:? :)
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Re: Selling House after Death of Wife?

Post by HHTel »

I am sure that you have posted what you believe in good faith, but believe me, it does not work in practice!
Yes, it damn well does!! It only doesn't work in practice, if you are talked out of the procedure and roll over like the wimp you are!

The law in Thailand is quite straightforward. All you have to do is use it. Stop listening to other barrack room lawyers who think they know better.

I know several people who have used the law to their advantage. It doesn't matter whether you are Thai or Farang. The law is the same.

Any lawyer worth his salt will tell you that.
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Re: Selling House after Death of Wife?

Post by Nereus »

HHTel wrote:
I am sure that you have posted what you believe in good faith, but believe me, it does not work in practice!
Yes, it damn well does!! It only doesn't work in practice, if you are talked out of the procedure and roll over like the wimp you are!

The law in Thailand is quite straightforward. All you have to do is use it. Stop listening to other barrack room lawyers who think they know better.
I know several people who have used the law to their advantage. It doesn't matter whether you are Thai or Farang. The law is the same.
Any lawyer worth his salt will tell you that.
I have better things to do than get involved arguing with the likes of you.

I guess that writing comments like you have is just an indication of the low level of your intelligence. You have absolutely no idea of the circumstances involved with my experience with the Thai legal system, or anybody else’s either for that matter.

As an example, if you believe that over 1 Million Baht spent with one of the biggest legal firms in Bangkok (with the initials T&G), amounts to a “barrack room” lawyer, then it just goes further to reinforce your low level of intelligence. It is not surprising that you ended up in a divorce court.

If you bother to read the heading of this thread it refers to what happens when a death is involved, not divorce.
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Re: Selling House after Death of Wife?

Post by HHTel »

My low level of intelligence!!

Who spent a million baht and, if I read between the lines, for nothing!

I've never spent that amount with a lawyer and I've had a result in every case.

I finished up in a divorce court because my Thai wife, like you, thought that everything belongs to the Thai and a farang cannot win in Thailand. She was wrong.

During the last couple of years dealing with lawyers, I've met many farangs who have won their court cases, be it divorce, property, or intimidation.

I think if I reached the dizzy heights of your intelligence, I'd be broke.
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Re: Selling House after Death of Wife?

Post by Dannie Boy »

Nereus wrote:
HHTel wrote:
I am sure that you have posted what you believe in good faith, but believe me, it does not work in practice!
Yes, it damn well does!! It only doesn't work in practice, if you are talked out of the procedure and roll over like the wimp you are!

The law in Thailand is quite straightforward. All you have to do is use it. Stop listening to other barrack room lawyers who think they know better.
I know several people who have used the law to their advantage. It doesn't matter whether you are Thai or Farang. The law is the same.
Any lawyer worth his salt will tell you that.
I have better things to do than get involved arguing with the likes of you.

I guess that writing comments like you have is just an indication of the low level of your intelligence. You have absolutely no idea of the circumstances involved with my experience with the Thai legal system, or anybody else’s either for that matter.

As an example, if you believe that over 1 Million Baht spent with one of the biggest legal firms in Bangkok (with the initials T&G), amounts to a “barrack room” lawyer, then it just goes further to reinforce your low level of intelligence. It is not surprising that you ended up in a divorce court.

If you bother to read the heading of this thread it refers to what happens when a death is involved, not divorce.
Why do people have to start throwing insults about over what has been written as fact - it would appear that you Nereus have had a bad experience and HHTel had a good one with regard to the application of the Thai Law. I think most of us know that you can never be sure of anything in Thailand, even if the law says its black,there will be times when its white, but please just keep it as what you have experienced and let the readers decide what route to follow.
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