90 year lease is just a con

[CraigDunn]

You're right, Mags, many properties here have been and still are grossly overpriced. Some developers want to more than triple and quadruple the outlay (which is often mostly the buyer's money, not the developer's) on the realization of a property, and many agents demand at least 5% commission, and up to 10%, for their efforts.

5,6 years ago, maximum agents' commission was 3% and developers could expect up to 30% profit on the total outlay per property. Nowadays, it seems that greed and abject disregard for other people, the industry and Hua Hin itself is the order of the day.

There are some, though, who are fair and reasonable.

cd.

[margaretcarnes]

Yes CD it seems that a lot of unscrupulous people jumped on a largely unregulated bandwagon. Particularly in HH. But maybe the bubble is deflating now.
I think we should remember that it's not only Thailand which is affected though. Brits for example who have moved to Spain and other European countries are also trying to sell up and return home without success. And often the failure to sell is simply due to the recession, rather than any legal problems.
There are also many long term home owners in HH with either good leases, or company ownership deals, who have no worries at all.
None of which excuses the apparent sad decline of standards and ethics in HH which have occurred over the last 3 or 4 years.
Looking back the signs were there 5 years ago. Maybe more. When things happened in certain companies within the Mall.
But thats history now. I think what is important is that people looking to buy anywhere in LOS just take note of what foreign properties are on offer from the large Western agents. Despite the recession it's still places like Spain, France and Portugal. You never see a British agent for example offering properties for sale in LOS. Any potential buyer must ask themselves why?

[Super Joe]

Please, I may be an agent, but I do not deserve to be tarred with the same brush used for others. My buyer clients are all satisfied; the only people who don't like me much are some other agents and developers whose nonsense I have consistently refused to broker. cd.

I think before one looks down on others from upon a high horse one should look closer to home. Your own website suggests 30 year renewable/consecutive lease periods of 30 years as a viable solution to ownership. And even goes a step further than I've seen elsewhere saying this can confer rights equivalent to FREEHOLD ownership, utter nonsense.
Under Limited Company ownership your website states that the use of 'nominees' is seen and ACCEPTED as the proper way for foreigners to hold land.

Let's practice what we preach hey.

SJ

[sargeant]

OOOOOH dear here we go again

Quote CD “This discussion needs input from a real estate professional with knowledge, insight and integrity; so here I am.”

To be fair to CD and SJ their vested interests are on display unlike 2.5 years ago with mr Burger to name only one I crossed horns with

But CD how about this for a quote from me
This discussion needs input from people with NO NIL ZERO ZILCH vested interest in any form or manner of the property business only the best interests of the public at large because here I am

and I have been here for 2.5 years stating the very thing that has happened to the op.

The 30 year lease option was only introduced as part of the conditions for the IMF loan in 1998
What developer estate agent can even vaguely state that 30+30+30 is a certainty until 2027 yes that’s correct because the first ever lease of 1998 does not come up for renewal until yes I will type it again 2027 In the face of the Ops evidence I would think there are a fair few people who will get caught out
Choose one of the following words horse or bull add your choice of a word to go with it and that is what a lot of people are being given
Much as I hope these gentlemans agreements work out if only one doesn’t it is 2 to many for the poor guy or couple that it doesn’t work out for
2,000 posts later and my warnings are still the same

[splitlid]

To be fair to CD and SJ their vested interests are on display unlike 2.5 years ago with mr Burger to name only one I crossed horns with

yes mr burger has mellowed alot

but what about tuktuk mike?

[CraigDunn]

SJ,

The leases I refer to are those registered for buyers at my own projects.

You are of course not party to the contractual arrangements between my company and our buyers. We and our lawyers are all completely satisfied that the level of ownership and rights to future disposal conferred is the best possible permitted under prevailing laws - the Thai equivalent of freehold ownership for foreigners.

I have many times declined to broker other's leases because the conditions did not measure up to my ethical standards.

For the record, I am here on this forum to defend that which is good and valuable in Hua Hin's real estate sector and to provide a counterweight to the mostly unbridled negativity spread by many participants.
I understand that there are many justified grievances, but all is not black, and I do have a staff and a family to take care of, and a responsibility to protect the market value of my buying clients' properties, as best I can.

cd.

[sargeant]

here is my 4th ever post on this forum please note secondly and in brackets comment
oh and the date

Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 11:21 am Post subject: property purchase question

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

i dont know if this will help as it is dependant on a relationship
firstly i did not cunningly work this out it just happened
secondly i come from (having already been screwed on a 2 million beach side property) never buy in thailand attitude
i give my girl housekeeping every month and she takes care of everything
for a long time she went around with a purse that would choke a horse
i insisted she put it in her bank account so she wouldnt be robbed
last jan our landlady listening to all the property / letting agencys decided to triple my rent
im gone says i a friend accross the road said buy his house no way says i not you says he your girlfriend she can get a mortgage
a non binding deposit agreement (payed over a year)was reached and of goes my girl to the bank and in 3 weeks we moved
putting the housekeeping money in her bank gave her a credit rating which allowed her to get a mortgage
1 it means i now pay less to buy than rent
2 it is fixed no rises
3 if (and i dont think in my case it will happen )we should split i havent lost anything

this may not suit all but i think getting your wife/girl a credit rating even if you dont need to borrow now may save problems later and gives other alternatives

lastly my cash stays in the bank and earns interest
it works for me and is 100% legal cos i aint involved at all

[Super Joe]

SJ, The leases I refer to are those registered for buyers at my own projects. You are of course not party to the contractual arrangements between my company and our buyers. We and our lawyers are all completely satisfied that the level of ownership and rights to future disposal conferred is the best possible permitted under prevailing laws - the Thai equivalent of freehold ownership for foreigners.

As you are not party to the contractual arrangements between all other companies and their buyers. Yet only yesterday you wrote:

30+30+30 year lease contracts are, and always have been, dressed-up versions of the 30 year legal standard, most likely promoted by agents and developers who believed it themsleves, and perhaps by some who knew it was nonsense.

You got it right yesterday, it doesn't matter on what project, what arrangements, what clauses go in a lease, if the land owner sells the land or dies the renewal rights do not pass on to the new landowner under law, even if the lease clauses say they do.

SJ

[CraigDunn]

sargeant,

That's beautiful!

cd.

[CraigDunn]

SJ,

As I said: You are not party to the contractual arrangements between my company and our buyers. Leases are governed by the land law. Contracts are governed by the civil and commercial code.

Please let's not decend into a slagging match, and let this be my last word on the matter.

cd.

[Super Joe]

Craig,

Not a slanging match just defending other agents in the business (of which I am not one) who you appear to look down upon regarding things like promoting renewable leases, which you brand 'nonsense', while at the same time promoting them for your own projects. 'Presumably' knowing they are not be enforcable under law, no matter what clever clauses go into the agreements.

SJ

[sargeant]

CD the reason i have posted that post was to show that it was the property vested interests that rubbished and attacked it (they did not want banks valueing or assessing build quality now did they)
Agreed it probably does not apply to the OP but it was from that stance ie i have no vested interest in property and my only aim was to try to stop people from falling for the hot air and BS that cost me the first house i bought which motivated me to join this forum
As LEV says yes the website does have a vested interest in so much as much of its revenue comes from property advertising but at no time has the forum admin tried to stop people from posting the warnings they also have not stopped the attacks from vested interest parties on warning posters (quite correctly IMHO, this is a forum/debate and people can decide for themselves from what they read although people should declare vested interests IMHO)
It is the vested property interests that overblow all the way up to telling downright lies about it and spend countless time rubbishing and belittling peope like me by calling us scaremongers quote you"counterweight to the mostly unbridled negativity spread by many participants." sounds similar to me

This topic is not a troll or a scaremonger it is brought to us by a person who is telling us what has happened to them it is fact COLD HARD FACT and very upsetting to them i have no doubt
I agree with you one shouldnt lump you in with the bad element but when a brush has 99% of tar on it it is a tar brush and the property sector in Hua Hin would hardly win awards as a clean broom now would it

[CraigDunn]

OK fellas, I'm glad we're all lightening up now. We do each have good intentions.

Soi88, if I can help you in any way, I will do so free of charge.

cd.

[Lev]

As LEV says yes the website does have a vested interest in so much as much of its revenue comes from property advertising

Wrong.

Our advertisers are local businesses looking to increase their business by exposing it to a wider audience. We welcome all regardless of trade and have on board a wide selection of advertisers including bars, restaurants, furniture shops, IT technicians, language schools, martial artists, fishermen, guesthouses, book stores, tour operators, insurance brokers, butchers, taxis, and golf pros.

Naturally most seem to associate HHAD with the property industry for some bizarrely inexplicable reason.

[sargeant]

Sorry splitlid i missed your post yes so mellowed he disappeared and tuk tuk mike