The End Of Border Runs From Oct 1, 2006

[hogus]

It seems, that just foreigners with VOA are affected with this new 30+30+30 regs.
Means, if you apply for a regular visa (tourist visa, non-imm.. etc.) in an embassy or consulate you won't get any problems!
_____________________________________________________________

Visa rules will be tightened to stop abuse
Maximum stay of 90 days for foreigners

By Chatrudee Theparat

Visa-on-arrival (VOA) regulations will be tightened for nationals of 41 countries to prevent abuse of the privilege and curb the rising number of illegal entries, according to the Immigration Police Bureau (IPB). Foreign nationals from those countries, including the US, China and India, will be able to stay longer but with fewer chances of renewing the VOA.

IPB commissioner Suwat Tumrongsiskul said nationals from those specific countries are currently allowed to remain in Thailand for 15 days maximum after the VOA is granted. The VOA is normally renewable once.

However, some foreigners including tourists ''tiptoe around the law'' by resorting to so-called visa runs to extend their stay. Most take a bus to a border, check out of the country and then return the same day to have the VOA renewed.

They repeat the practice as many times as they wish, affording them almost unlimited stay in the country. The policy is largely intended to serve tourism.

Pol Lt-Gen Suwat said the change of the VOA rules is in order.

In future, foreigners from those 41 countries will be able to stay in the country for 30 days from the first VOA stamp, which will be renewable twice at most, each time for a maximum of 30 days. In other words, a foreigner will be permitted to remain in Thailand for no longer than 90 days in total after three VOA stamps.

The commissioner said the current system is prone to abuse as many foreign nationals make numerous visa runs so they can stay on long term to do business. In some cases, they have gone unregulated, causing social problems.

Official figures showed that about 400,000 Chinese nationals were granted a VOA last year, and 18,000 of them have stayed behind.

Around 200,000 Indians made VOA visits last year and it was found that 16,000 of them have not left.

Pol Lt-Gen Suwat said the new VOA rules will be put into effect once approved by the Royal Thai Police Office.

He said more information technology will be employed in the blacklisting system. The IT-operated immigration clearance system is now in use at 15 out of 55 checkpoints nationwide to check in tourists and screen out undesirable individuals. The technology lets the bureau enlarge its database of foreign visitors to identify those on the blacklist and expel them.

Pol Col Ittipol Ittisarnronnachai, head of the Pattaya immigration centre, said its IT-operated database is shared by many hotels and resorts in Pattaya to help track down blacklisted people. The technology has been credited with weakening the local mafia network.

The Betong immigration centre in Yala is also using the system to trace people of dual nationality, some of whom are believed to be behind the southern strife.

Pol Lt-Gen Suwat said more authority to issue visas will be delegated to regional IPB offices.

At present, IPB chief inspectors are authorised to grant visas, and in future their deputies will also be able to approve visa requests

http://www.bangkokpost.com/100906_News/ ... news04.php

[STEVE G]

Silverbird quoted:
If you have a visa on arrival more than three times in six months, you cannot come into Thailand without a visa from an Embassy/Consulate. When you enter Thailand, even if you are here just 1 hour, this counts as 30 days. If you come back 6 weeks later for 2 days, this again is 30 days. If you arrive a month later for 4 days, still counts as 30 days. When you leave, you cannot enter Thailand for 3.5 months without coming back with a visa. The reason is to force people who are supposed to have work permits to do so and pay tax. Another example; you arrive for a week, this counts as 30 days, One month later 3 days and its 30 days, two months later and its for a two week period, still another 30 days. You can reenter Thailand in 6 weeks without having a visa.


This bit, if it comes to pass, seems very unfair to me. For instance, quite a few people I know travel back frequently from jobs in the oil and mining industries, where they get perhaps a week off a month. These people are coming in to Thailand often, but genuinely as tourists as they have no business interests. It seems a pity that they are suffering, due to other people abusing the system. Hopefully the comment made elsewhere, that this will not be enforced for people arriving by air will hold to be true.

[silverbird]

[quote="hogus"]It seems, that just foreigners with VOA are affected with this new 30+30+30 regs.
Means, if you apply for a regular visa (tourist visa, non-imm.. etc.) in an embassy or consulate you won't get any problems!


Hogus - the new rules apply to VOA (visa on arrival) as well as TVE (tourist visa exemption) so it includes a lot of western foreigners.

From what I learnt embassies and consulates will get instructed to be more restrictive with visas to those applicants with a lot of recent entries to Thailand. This does not mean they are likely to reject those with good reasons to visit Thailand. But coming with a passport where they can find a lot of stamps from Ranong or similar might make it more difficult. It seems consulates/embassies close to Thailand like Penang are now very restrictive.

Plane or land?

The latest information says the way you arrive does not matter at all.

Others

The number of entries to be checked from October 1st includes those entries during the last 6 months.

60 days or 90 days visas do not count against the new “quotaâ€

[hogus]

Silverbird, it seems you're well informed.

I'd like to know, where is difference between a 60-days-visa and a tourist-visa (not VOA).
I thought a 60-days-visa is a so-called tourist-visa, if you apply for it in an embassy or consulate?

In the moment I stay with a non-imm, but it would be helpful to know about alternatives in case they reject the issue of a non-imm someday.

Thanks in advance!

[Heebio]

[quote="silverbird"]From what I learnt embassies and consulates will get instructed to be more restrictive with visas to those applicants with a lot of recent entries to Thailand. This does not mean they are likely to reject those with good reasons to visit Thailand. But coming with a passport where they can find a lot of stamps from Ranong or similar might make it more difficult. It seems consulates/embassies close to Thailand like Penang are now very restrictive.

The number of entries to be checked from October 1st includes those entries during the last 6 months.

60 days or 90 days visas do not count against the new “quotaâ€

[PeteC]

Surprised this thread hasn't generated a lot more debate - there must be a lot of worried people out there.

I think it will Heebio once all is set in stone and announced. Now it's crazy as everywhere you look/read you see and hear different things. Even talking to an immigration officer last Sunday, I got bad info when all this started out.

We should all just relax and see the final product. You know the Thai's, some of this may have been a "feeler" trying to gauge foreigner's reactions, both the individual and multi national companies. Things could change several times again before October 1. Pete

[silverbird]

Hogus - there are six different groups of visas and each group has different kind of visas as well. For more information I suggest you look into the Immigrations homepage

http://www.immigration.go.th

A tourist visa of 60 days is a Tourist Visa – and this type of visa is issued to applicants who wish to enter the Kingdom for tourism purposes. The maximum validity of such a visa is 90 days but the visitor will permitted to stay for a period not exceeding 60 days.

Non- Immigrant Visa is another group. These can be single or multiple and are valid from 3 months to 1 year. The holders of this type of visa are initially granted a period of stay in the Kingdom not exceeding 90 days at a time unless otherwise instructed by the Office of Immigration Bureau.

Those with tourist visa or non-immigrant visa are not targeted by the latest implementation of existing laws. But to get those in the future the applicants have to show good and reliable reasons according to people having more inside information than me.



Heebio – you are now on a multiple entry Non Imm O Visa so from what I know your “stampsâ€

[Burger]

Heebio wrote:

If for example I want to change my 'O' to a 'B' - I go to KL or Penang with all the appropriate company documentation etc. If I do this before Jan 07 will they take the monthly Ranong stamps in my passport into account and knock me back for the 'B' visa?

If you're changing from an 'O' to a 'B' as a result of actual business/work permit (ie: not potential work for prospective employer) then you do not need to leave Thailand to do this, it can all be done here. Then you just report to the cop shop every 3 months.
I'm going through this process at the moment.

Burger

[Burger]

Genuine question ........ Can anyone tell me what right people think they have of coming here without bothering to get any visa at all (ie: VOA Visa-on-arrival) which permits you 30 days (bog standard holiday folk), then trying to stay for months, years on end ?

Also, why would anyone want to do monthly visa runs, why not just get the non-immigrant 'O' multi-orgasm visa in the first place, they give them to any old **** for 90 quid, you don't even have to turn up at the consulate, just post it off and sit down the pub waiting for it to come back.

We're taking the pee so can't be surprised when they crack down on us.
Or have I missed something ??

Burger

[fremdulo]

Burger, some people come here thinking they've done the right thing only to find the goal posts have been moved or the info they've been given is a crock of shit. Even the guys down out the IMMIGRATION OFFICE IN HH cant agree with each other so don't blame people who end up being FORCED into the visa run. We are not immigration experts, they are, or they're supposed to be, it is their job to explain the rules, all the rules, correctly, accurately, clearly and then stick to them. I get a different story every time I go in there. Last time I was in their three of them ended having a little row about who was right and who was wrong.

[Burger]

But what I'm asking is how can any of us just turn up at a country, without getting any type of visa (VOA), and expect to stay there for months/years on end ?

Is it just arrogance/laziness or what ?

Burger

[hogus]

Good morning, Burger

I don't think its arrogance...laziness sometimes perhaps...

I'm sure, that many 30-days-visa-runners aren't qualified to apply for a proper long-term visa.
The question is now, are they simply forced to become visa-runners by constantly varying regulations, or knew they already they wouldn't be qualified in any case before coming to TH?
The first group has my sympathy and solidarity; the second one should pack their suitcases and not complain!

Personally I can't count anymore the changes in visa-regulations during the last decade.
It was said already in this and some similar threads, that TH seems to go backwards, while neighbor-countries liberalize their regulations for foreigners more and more.

Even TH-Immigration-Officers seems to be confused with the varying regulations and interpretations.
It reminds me a little bit of the land & house debate, which is also not concluded yet.

TH seems to shoot his self in the own foot again.
It shows in my eyes once more, that a developing country isn't a suitable place for a long-term life planning or investment, isn't it?

What was offered yesterday is undesirable today and illegal tomorrow.
Not a very trustworthy policy, and I'm sure TH will pay a big bill for these constant confusions in a future not far from now.

[DawnHRD]

But what I'm asking is how can any of us just turn up at a country, without getting any type of visa (VOA), and expect to stay there for months/years on end ?

Is it just arrogance/laziness or what ?

Burger

I think it's different things for different people, Burger. I have had visas in the past (a 3 month tourist one and a couple of non-b's), I have a non-b now, but in the middle of all of this, I did spend 18 months doing the 30 day thing. This was simply because of circumstances in my life. Just as my previous visa ended, my mum got cancer again. She chose to treat it here, as the waiting lists in UK were at least 6 weeks before first consultation, and delay could have been dangerous. She had surgery, chemo & radiotherapy which took 9 months in all.
As her carer (at that time) and primary support, I could hardly swan off to UK to get a visa. I did try to get extensions through the Immigration Office in BKK, but they'd only give me 2 weeks at a time; a monthly trip to Ranong was cheaper and easier than going to BKK and getting an extension every 2 weeks.
After that, we were very busy at the dog center & I was going through some trying times in my life, plus I had my little boy to consider. Again, easier to find one day a month than a whole week or 10 days in order to go back to UK to get a visa. I did go, earlier this year, and sort it out properly. And the reason I didn't go elsewhere in SEA for a visa was, I was pretty sure I'd only get 3 months at a time on the strength of the dog center, I thought Brits might be more sympathetic to what we were doing.
I think with some people it is laziness or arrogance, as you suggest, but with others, they have just got caught up in circumstances. During those 18 months, I genuinely didn't even think I was doing anything "wrong". The same immigration officers saw me every month - one even cadged a lift to HH with me one time! No-one even intimated that there was a problem. I think that's why people are so shocked by this now, because they genuinely thought that this was a practice LOS was OK with and allowed to happen. Well, we were wrong, I guess.

[Burger]

Hi Dawn,

Your circumstances were special and hopefully if happens to people from now, they will receive understanding from the authorities.

I'm talking about the majority of people who can't be bothered to get the correct visa etc.
It's people with situation's like you had who will now suffer due to the actions of others.

We all cut corners etc, I've never bothered to get a Thai driving licence through my laziness, but when I'm stopped and fined 200 Baht, I know it's my own fault and don't try and take it out on the authorities.

Burger

[Wanderlust]

Burger,
I think Dawn has got it spot on, not only with her story but in the fact that circumstances often dictate what you are able to do. One interesting point I have picked up on though is that there is another complete misconception, due to something being common practice, similar to the monthly visa run; the reality is that non-immigrant 'O' visas are only supposed to be issued to people in specific categories, which is normally on the basis of having a dependent in Thailand, or through marriage or retirement (both OA visas). However it appears that a lot of people, particularly from the UK, obtain these visas from consulates without any need to show proof of their circumstances - this might be the next part of the regulations that gets enforced. I know for sure that the Thai Embassy in London will only issue them with the relevant proof.
The other aspect that sticks in my craw is that if the purpose of the crackdown on VOA entries is because of economic reasons, and as I read it mainly because of Chinese and Indians abusing the system, why take such a blanket approach? The vast majority of people from Western countries would appear to be net contributors to the Thai economy, even the 'poor' backpackers, or Dog Rescue Centre workers.
Why not target this change at the 'problem' countries? And I guess the answer is because, as has already been said, this is just a policy to win votes, not because it has any logical reason...