low cost housing for thais

sargeant · Post by **sargeant** » Fri Sep 29, 2006 2:27 pm

burger
ooh stop it you are making me blush
i am worried for my kids though
Hopefully i will be able to get out and take a look at the sois mentioned by others

in another forum it states that the average thai salary is 7000ish a month
but to get that most thais r on 5-6000 i just dont see how they can get on the housing ladder for a long time from now

sargeant · Post by **sargeant** » Sun Oct 01, 2006 2:40 pm

sorry folks still havent got to the sois you told me about and my soi is under 6 inches of water as i type

however a friend of my girl who lives over that way says the townhouses like mine are approx 8-12000 a month and the 0ne story jobs are 3-3500
i forgot to ask if the one story houses are 2 bed or one if 2 the rents for them are about the same as here

i will go and look but she says there are quite a few so that is encouraging

but the rents when you take the 7000bht amonth average wage dont leave much to save the dreaded deposit

that is the same world over i guess

Post by **The 'G'** » Sun Oct 01, 2006 3:44 pm

problem is there are too many adam kennedys ..in hua hin...sellin $10.000 houses..at $100.000...this aint beverly hills...spain...???lol...
no wonder so many thais dont like us being here....

Post by **hogus** » Sun Oct 01, 2006 9:09 pm

Hey G.,

hmmm...I wouldn't say, that normal Thais don't like us...but as in every society opinions are drifting apart from each other.

I.e. my landlord felt totally pissed off, that many foreigners are buying houses in my street, renovating and doing alterations, which leads to a higher tax-rate, coming from the land-department.
She's a conservative thinking person, and prefers a stable income by rent (she has many houses and businesses in Hua Hin, and doesn't make difference between Thais and Farangs), than to run behind quick money.

On the other side we have the "fallen angels" in my street, too, which got free houses from their former foreign lovers, boyfriends, husbandsâ€¦whateverâ€¦.
The difference of the requested rent is sometimes 300% up compare to the "conservative" landlords.

You'll find this in every country around the world.... and, please, keep in mind; there wouldn't be (greedy) developers and real-estate-agents without greedy Thai-landlords!

So long there are investors (???), slightly influence-able and willing buyers (!?!), and real idiots (!!!) nothing will change.

It's a business, and I'm pretty sure that our real-estate-agents and developers are praying every day, that one of these "special" clients will find the way to their offices!

Hey, Iâ€™ve nothing to do with real estate, but if you like I can send you a website to buy nice plots on the moon!
But Iâ€™m fair, I read there are many judicial problems on earth already, because some rich "investors" arenâ€™t agree with their neighbor-hood...

sargeant · Post by **sargeant** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 8:08 pm

the G sorry who the hell is adam kennedy???
beverly hills costa del sol i agree it is not but as jamie pointed out the holiday /retirement towns are normally holiday resorts and there is resentment that like in wales can spill over the top

as hogus says and i agree i dont think the thais are even close to hating us but the resentment is slowly growing and that is my fear
the operative word is greedy in your post but the greedy thai landlords and developers are invisible and we the farang are where the resentment is pointed (logic no farang no greed)

with a 22 yr old stepdaughter and 14 yr old stepson even i am starting (as a pseudo thai dad) to feel some resentment for the over rapid expansion in land and rental values due to my fears for their future

hopefully there will be a pause and things can get back to balance

Post by **Guess** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 4:57 am

sargeant wrote:
guess i hope that is the reason but i am dubious not of what you say or what you have written but i do think there is more to it than just that ( maybe it has something to do with mr T and his shell companies which he is going to court over???) in my experience the thai govt never shows its real colours my fear is collateral damage to nice people.Getting rid of the a@$&holes i applaud i dont want them here either
As for hoiday homes /time share not having an effect on housing costs of course it does i bought my house 20 months ago for 800000 because the landlord wanted to up the rent from 3500 to 6000 my house would now sell for 1.2 million and rents are now 10-12000 a month that is not aimed at thais which caused me to start this thread in the first place

All of the responses so far are valid but we are comparing apples with oranges to a degree. Splitid and you are right that the investment probably works out at more than putting the money in the bank although I have not done the figures. The story I quoted was from three years ago. What I see that seems to be missed from the equation though is that if you invest in prpoerty for rental and you can get a return that is considerably more than base rate you are on a winner. This is this is the basis of most trading in the West. The difference that you must realise is that if you purchase a car for renting out you must assume that you get your investment plus profit at considerably more than base rate within about 2 years What you get back for the used ex-rental car is a factor that is built in to the equation. If you deposit the money in a bank you get the interest but you must deduct the inflationary element from the interest or after two years the investment is worth less when you have finished with the two year plan. If you invest in houses or any buildings the investment in most cases in most countries in the world will increase at more than inflation making it feasible to acdtually purchase a property even with a loan and leave it empty. This has been done before. There was a period in the UK in the late sixties and early seventies where many developers were doing just that. The most famous being Centre Point at the end of Oxford Streert in London's West End. The building was deliberately left empty during a time of acccute housing shortages. Laws needed to be changed to recify the situation.

Back to my Thai story, to clarify, I was looking at a medium to long term investment which made a lot of sense. Bank rates do fluctuate but remain
even of a medium term. So if the inestment is part cash and part bank loan all you need to do is ensure that the returns pay the bank loan. Soon the rents will increase but the bank loan remains constant. After about five years it is easily possible to get your own personal investment back. You will then continue to repay the bank but the returns will then overweigh the costs. (BTW in Thailand it is usually the responsibility of the tennant maintain the property). For a Thai investor this makes perfect sense and provides a relaible income for the future which can be transferred to your family should you die.

As a farang investor you must buy the land and build the house and then sell it at a profit. We have all seen that that can be risky and full of problems. However there are plenty that have done it and I am sure that there will be plenty more that do.

The main problem that the Thai's have that the farangs don't have, is access to the amounts of cash necessary to finance such a project.

Additionally it is less predictable for the farang investor as law changes can take effect very quickly as we have seen recently.

For a farang to purchase a house and then rent it out to other farangs can also be problematic. I had a bungalow in Tawan Haa that I could only managed to let for 50% of the time even though I was very flexible on the rent depending upon the length of stay required and perceivd integrity of the prospective tennant. In the end I was breaking even and decided to quit.

With Thai houses and condos it is much more easy to get close to 100% occupancy. The place I had in Soi 96 had a queue of people waiting. The properties were new and the rents very competetive.

As for your comment on time that was a reply to my statement in an earlier post, I agree with wht you said but did not make myself clear. What I should have said was that the building of Time Shares in Pattaya, Koh Samui and Phuket should not have an effect on prices in Hua Hin, but of cousre everything has a knock on effect so you are probably right in that one. Maybe we will see them in Ampoe Hua Hin in the near future.

Of course I agree with your statement that nothing here (or anywhere come to that) is quite what it seems.)

When I hear stories about how to get rich quick and this is how to do it I always ask myself, if is is that easy why aren't you doing it yourself and are stinking rich and why are you telling me. Surely it would be better to keep it as a secret.

So it seems from all the other response that Thai housing is being considered and developers are making money doing so and as my example states, for a Thai it is definitely a better long term market. If you got a situation where the baht went up to 10cents per dollar you would suddenly get a big demand for Thai housing from farang retirees which may then leave the top end of the market a diaster.

I am sure that all methods of building investment can show a profit. Some are a very high risk high return short term investment and some are a lower risk lower retun long term investment. Obviously the long term investment still has a major risk factor fo a roreigner. We could be all booted out of Thailand next week.

Post by **Guess** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 5:09 am

sargeant wrote:the G sorry who the hell is adam kennedy???
but the resentment is slowly growing and that is my fear
the operative word is greedy in your post but the greedy thai landlords and developers are invisible and we the farang are where the resentment is pointed (logic no farang no greed)

with a 22 yr old stepdaughter and 14 yr old stepson even i am starting (as a pseudo thai dad) to feel some resentment for the over rapid expansion in land and rental values due to my fears for their future

hopefully there will be a pause and things can get back to balance

I believe to G with his strange dialect of English is referring to the Realators in North London. He has a point, buy highly exagerated that agents can be responsible for inflation of property prices, but at the and of the day anything is worth what some else is prepared to pay for it. This applies to veteran cars, arts and down to grossly marked up disposable lighters.

Water finds its own level.

sargeant · Post by **sargeant** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 1:37 pm

Guess
I dont agree with your car rental analagy because a car depreciates and that depreciation must be taken into account and the car ends up as scrap.
Houses however appreciate and when that is taken into account 11.5% plus appreciation in the house which is still standing while the car is on the scrap heap make splitlids figures which i agree are pretty close well above base rate.
as you say apples and oranges i agree

As for the property bought on a loan and left empty that is exactely what happened in 1997/8 and see what that did to thailand.You can see derelict properies everywhere from that era.
I have often argued the properties like them should be rented to the poor thais rather than let them rot i have been saying it for 9 years now

to me the problem is not medium to long term investment it is the short term grab it now and bugger the consequences
the reasons you give unsecure laws etc are the reason i know that
but a marriage visa or genuine business visa (operative word GENUINE) should allow at least medium term investments to be considered

I have stated on another thread i am buying my house on a mortgage in my girls name and how i got for her the credit status to do it. You are right that option just is not open to average thais and hence the reason for this thread in the first place unless the poorer thais can rent AND save it will only get worse

A word to the wise centre point was deliberately left empty to claim tax back on other businesses by the same company as it was claimed as a loss that does not apply in this country,sorry apples and oranges again

As for adam kennedy sorry dont know him if he is north london i left northend road 800 yards from stamford bridge 9 years ago he must be new

sorry for the two words in capitals i am not shouting but just wish to emphasise them

Post by **Guess** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 5:51 pm

sargeant wrote:Guess
I dont agree with your car rental analagy because a car depreciates and that depreciation must be taken into account and the car ends up as scrap.

Sorry sargeant (BTW you should be calling me SIR), but I think you are just a bored individual who his having a laugh. I have a Degree in Business Studies and NCO baiting along wi' other technical and financial qualifications. I worked in IT (I can't remember what) and in the finance industry (a cashier in a sandwich shop) in the City of London (Benjy's) and other centres (Docklands) for about 20million years. I am well au fait with finance. If somebody gave me a pound note for a bacon sarnie that cost 65P, I knew exactly which buttons to press on the calculator. I also knew how to operate an ATM machine.

What you are discussing (arguing) about now is differing methods of accountancy (another area where I have some expertise, 2 bacon sarnies is 1,40). This is just an art (not science) to keep tax at a minimum and shareholders happy while constantly looking for business leakage.

Your statement about the car rental business is incorrect. Avis in the UK buy cars (or they did ten years ago) at highly reduced foreign trade prices. They then rented them out for about three months. The rental income only just about covered marketing and operation costs bearing in mind to deal in the required volume they needed expensive locations and high profile ad campaigns. The rental operation was not where the money was made.

The money was made buy selling the car.

A second hand (ex-demo) car would sell for more than what Avis had paid for it abroad. Somehow they had to change it from a brand new car to a ex-demo with very low mileage. Clever stuff really for the guy who dreamt it up.

Have you ever wondered why if you go to a car salesroom and ask for a test drive of a model that you may buy they always have to book it in advance and rarely have it in stock. Funny thing thing is they will always have a drive away now model that almost fits the spec you want. Now how do you think they do that.

Additionally, if you have ever rented a car from Avis in the UK have you ever wondered why it is always brand new. I used to rent one every weekend when I was working in Dublin and I never ever had one with over 1000 miles on the clock. I had many that were under 30 miles.

As someone else has already said in this thread "Everything is not what it seems".

That is me finished on this one. It is going round in ever decreasing circles and straying way off the topic even though it is related purely to finance and investment. There are many ways to skin a cat.

Added later

A failed attempt to shut you up. This is blatant arguing for argument's sake. To think you have spent all this time to find this two year old post for what???

Now two years later are you still sticking to the premise that houses always appreciate. Try telling that to an apartment owner in North End Road.

You should calm down; for health reasons.

Post by **STEVE G** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 6:00 pm

Guess wrote:
I have a Degree in Business Studies along wiy other technical wualifications.

Guess, I hope youâ€™ve got no qualifications in I.T., otherwise you would have got yourself a new keyboard by now!

sargeant · Post by **sargeant** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 11:04 pm

Guess
the btw and calling you sir statement i just dont understand but i only call the royal family your majesty and no one sir i stopped doing that when i left the army i also stopped people calling me sir as well
Thanks for the dissertation on car rental very enlightening
i will file it and should i ever get into the car rental business i will study it
but only if i am a megahuge international company
i look forward to a dissertation as to how in 10-15 years my thai kids are going to get on the housing ladder
which this thread was started for

Post by JD » Tue Oct 03, 2006 11:56 pm

If ever we needed a hand clap smilie this is what it would be used for. Sorry Guess, no malice intended, I know you are one of the good ones in town, and often post purely to get other posters to respond and think about what their remarks are about. But it seems to me that you both have arrived at a similar juncture in this debate, neither is wrong or right, but who knows what the future has in store for expat or Thai alike. Investment is what you think it is. What risk are you prepared to take?

I recently talked with a customer on this, he has a 28 roomed apartment for rent, purely for Thai people, when I asked what his cheapest room was, he said 1,500 a month, but if you need a room with a window????? - 2,500 a month.
This is certainly a different world.

Good debate chaps, keep it up.

Post by **DawnHRD** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 12:02 am

Off thread, but some of these abbreviations might help you sargeant. Took me a while to work out some of them out & I still don't get the rows of 5's together (someone help me out on that one?)

BTW - by the way
IMO - in my opinion
IMHO - in my humble opinion
LOL - lots of laughs
LMAO - laughing my a$$ off

These get used very frequently on here, as do others, but my brain is failing at this late hour & I can't think of them at the moment.

On thread, I understand how you feel about your kids not being able to afford housing when they're old enough. My son is Thai (stepson, I guess) and I'm worried about a lot of issues for his future, this being one. The only thing we can do is watch & wait & hope that things work out well for our "babies". Maybe some of us are lucky enough or powerful enough to influence the outcome for the better. Chok dee ka.

Post by **Burger** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 12:39 am

sargeant wrote:

i look forward to a dissertation as to how in 10-15 years my thai kids are going to get on the housing ladder

'Thai housing ladder' ...... are you serious sarge ?
The thought that children with a farang parent will not be able to obtain any kind of suitable property within Hua Hin and the surrounding area (ok, maybe not the centre of town), seems laughable to me.

Will you not be providing them with an education that allows them to get a decent career/salary ?
If you are, good on you, they will be fine.
If you're not, take a look in the mirror.

whinge, whinge, whinge, whinge, whinge

Burger

Post by **Big Boy** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 3:08 am

DawnHHDRC wrote:

I still don't get the rows of 5's together (someone help me out on that one?)

Firstly, I'd like to say that I replied to this about 30 minutes ago, but the post seems to have vanished in to the ether - if it turns up elsewhere, apologies.

Back on to the question, I asked a similar question a couple of months ago. If you think about it, the answer is simple. Take the Thai word for 5 (ha), and string them together ie 5555 means Hahahaha.

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