Where does corruption start?

[Super Joe]

That sort of naivety is what lets them get away with it. Do you think they would give a shit about your welfare if there wasn't a profit to be made out of it.

We don't really need to care if there's profit in it and what the motives are, they save lives so they are a success.
The profit is only provided by me and you when we decide to break the law. Whether it is done for 'safety' or 'profit' is unknown and just our opinion.

Governmental studies (yes I know every member of the government is really an alien) estimate 100 lives a year are currently saved overall as a result of speed cameras.

SJ

[STEVE G]

I think that the important point with corruption is not that it goes on everywhere, as it obviously does, but the level of it and how much it’s accepted as being normal.
If corruption was a universal problem we wouldn’t have leagues of corrupt nations and we wouldn’t even be having this discussion.
It seems to me that much, if not almost all of the business in SE Asia is carried on by descendants of Chinese immigrants, and in China corruption has been going on for millennium.
Now the local population looks at how the Chinese amongst them became wealthy and simply copy their business methods.
If it is kept within constraint it works like a form of taxation, it’s just treated as a business cost and can be calculated and passed on to the customer, or paid by the individual without too much pain.
The problems arise when it’s allowed to grow out of any control when it will become a millstone dragging down the whole economy, and that is why some countries that should be economically successful in the region are not.
I think the problems start when people become so used to the practice that they start to take it for granted and treat it as being normal instead of a crime.

[dtaai-maai]

Religion is totally corrupt. It's picked the pockets of the ignorant masses for centuries.

Detraction en-masse from lust, greed, hatred and fear by emphasising men and women's 'divine' nature and his place in the universe. Make spiritual teaching people-centred, not building-centred. Spiritual teachers should be guides.

I'm almost certainly missing the point here, and unfortunately you'll probably tell me how... I'm not sure if you're advising me to worship something else or to worship myself, or, even worse, somebody else (other than Mrs D-M of course)

Personally, I just try and get on with life and with those around me. Your own quest for spiritual enlightenment seems to have left you in a right old muddle . I've had a generally Baptist then Cof E upbringing, and neither have left a huge mark, praise be to the Lord(oops).

You live your life as well as you can, and if there is a Supreme Being, and if he/she/it gives a toss, well, you pays your money and you takes your choice.

Seems to me, with the benefit of hindsight, that corruption is a bit like beauty - it's in the eye of the beholder.

Yours complacently,

D-M

[buksida]

The problems arise when it’s allowed to grow out of any control when it will become a millstone dragging down the whole economy, and that is why some countries that should be economically successful in the region are not.

That sounds very familiar

[Spitfire]

Sorry Guess, sometimes it's difficult to infer what people are getting at when you're just reading script on the computer, and to be honest, I wasn't sure about some parts of that post myself afterwards. However, rather that be a lightweight and edit it(pretending nobody will notice, yeh, right), better to be stood corrected, no problem.[/b]

Thought you were impling something else, but obviously completely wrong, I supose that's why we have emoticons and punctuation. So, hands up, can I take off the flak-jacket?

[Guess]

....................We don't really need to care if there's profit in it and what the motives are, they save lives so they are a success.
The profit is only provided by me and you when we decide to break the law. Whether it is done for 'safety' or 'profit' is unknown and just our opinion................

I can't argue with that. But just an observation I made when in the UK, (and I was driving full time) was that there were forests of the things on the M25 waiting for someone to lapse in concentration and slip over the 80 MPH threshold and other places where they were desperately needed, such as large government housing estates there were none. Surely some profits could go back into giving nationwide coverage.

I am not sure if corruption plays any part in this anyway. If they can raise money by enforcing the law then it's a double win.

[redzonerocker]

speed cams are an excellent source for controlling vehicles in areas such as accident blackspots, traffic lights & around schools etc.
unfortunately the powers to be have seen what a great revenue earner they are & put them just about anywhere & everywhere.
the mobile units are a particular annoyance considering the amount of crime about, seems the police could/should be better employed elsewhere.
i agree that severe punishments are required for speeders but 34 mph in a 30 zone on a tues at 1.45 am (a friends offence recently) is hardly crime of the century
before i get the deluge from the 'rules are rules' lobby, i will assume they all stick to the speed limit in all zones & at all times of the day? yeah right!! & none have ever used a mobile, lit a cigarette (& dropped one ), changed a cd, adjusted the aircon etc etc whilst driving, all lapses in concentration that are potential causes of accidents.
not to mention driving under the influence!!!!!
according to the stats, only 5% of rta's is caused by speeding drivers, which to me seems quite low no massive decrease in the overall accident rate nationwide if the stats are correct too.

on the corruption issue, its a case of morals, scruples, standards,honesty, reputation,ethics etc etc versus money, power, ambition, greed etc etc.
will you sell your soul & if so, for how much??
i suppose everybody is corruptable in one way or the other

it's not all related to one particular nation or region, it's a worldwide dilemma, just different levels

[MrPlum]

Religion is totally corrupt. It's picked the pockets of the ignorant masses for centuries.

Detraction en-masse from lust, greed, hatred and fear by emphasising men and women's 'divine' nature and his place in the universe. Make spiritual teaching people-centred, not building-centred. Spiritual teachers should be guides.

I'm almost certainly missing the point here, and unfortunately you'll probably tell me how... I'm not sure if you're advising me to worship something else or to worship myself, or, even worse, somebody else (other than Mrs D-M of course)

Personally, I just try and get on with life and with those around me. Your own quest for spiritual enlightenment seems to have left you in a right old muddle . I've had a generally Baptist then Cof E upbringing, and neither have left a huge mark, praise be to the Lord(oops).

You live your life as well as you can, and if there is a Supreme Being, and if he/she/it gives a toss, well, you pays your money and you takes your choice.

Seems to me, with the benefit of hindsight, that corruption is a bit like beauty - it's in the eye of the beholder.

Yours complacently,

D-M

I think 'tis you who's in a muddle since I don't see the word 'worship' anywhere. There is nothing muddled, either, in the statement 'Religion is totally corrupt.' It's pretty unequivocal wouldn't you say?

I agree we should make our own way, just helped along from time to time by a wise old 'guru', who could be the guy serving you behind the bar.

The pattern has been for others to control and direct. The High Priest would say 'Don't listen to the other twats. My way is the only way and if you don't follow my teaching, I'm going to set fire to you and all your family.and if you manage to escape my religious thugs, you'll rot in hell for all eternity. Having purified your soul in the cleansing fire, I'll spread this message of peace and goodwill around the world.'

Who or what you choose to believe is a matter for each individual, worked out in the fullness of time. If the Spice Girls do it for you, fine. Just don't.. ahem... ram Gerry Halliwell down my throat. It's a big ask.

If I can borrow your complacent label, it could be argued that the only ones who aren't muddled are the complacent, the arrogant and the confident. I used to be the same until a few crises left me wondering what hit me. Since then I've had a pretty interesting time coming to the realization... as another poster here has... that 'I know nothing'.

[dtaai-maai]

Since then I've had a pretty interesting time coming to the realization... as another poster here has... that 'I know nothing'.

And there I agree with you 100% - I just hadn't realised that was what you spent so long trying to say.

[Super Joe]

classic D-M, classic.

SJ

[MrPlum]

Since then I've had a pretty interesting time coming to the realization... as another poster here has... that 'I know nothing'.

And there I agree with you 100% - I just hadn't realised that was what you spent so long trying to say.

Now. Now. Throwing you a bone and having you pick it up, is hardly worthy of applause, except from the feeble-minded

You may not realize it but that's the third time you have made a negative personal comment. Coming from someone I don't know from Adam I am curious as to why? Is this a 'scragging' for the new boy or was there something else?

[dtaai-maai]

If by 'negative personal' you mean I was disagreeing with you, you could well be right, though I wasn't counting. You probably wouldn't be the first, though again I haven't been counting. It's called 'debate' Mr P - you put your point of view, someone else puts theirs. If we all agreed, life would be very boring.

Thanks for the bone, although I don't recall applauding myself - sorry I was predictable enough to pick it up!

Maybe one day we'll have a chat/debate in real life. One of the few real beliefs I hold to is to keep an open mind, so it might be interesting!

More seriously, if you've taken the trouble to note how often I've contradicted you, you'll presumably have seen that, by and large, I (try to) stay out of controversial threads - it's just that every now and then something pops up that tempts me out of my complacency. Usually it involves people who are certain about something. It certainly isn't anything personal.

A genuine

[MrPlum]

Usually it involves people who are certain about something. It certainly isn't anything personal.

A genuine

Thank you. I shall gladly pick it up

A real life debate sounds good too. pm me if you are serious and we can save a lot of typing.

Now if SJ will also forgive my sharp retort, I'll edit it out.

[Guess]

Sorry Guess, sometimes it's difficult to infer what people are getting at when you're just reading script on the computer...................

Yes I know.but no problem from me. I know I am bad at using the emoticons.

The one I did include on that post was a rarity and didn't help in my explanation whatsoever.

The farcical thing now is that the thread has gone right off topic onto speed cameras and driving law enforcement in general so it might as well be renamed Fish & Chips.

[gunner46]

fascinating thread...

my observations from the comments here and my own experiences are that it's a global issue, it very much depends on the individual and whether that individual is either corrupt (or desperate) enough to offer or take a bribe (in it's various guises).

If we all followed those Ten Commandments we'd all be shiny bright and wearing white feathers. Unfortunately experiences and circumstances put pressure on us on a moment-by-moment basis to challenge these rules and sometimes, just sometimes either the rules can appear as shades of grey or can be forgotten about entirely.

In a life or death situation most people would be hard pressed not to do whatever they can to avoid the latter. An extreme example but especially when it affects not only your life but that of your family what do you do when given a chance? You might just take it.

Seems it's a dog eat dog world out there and things will get a shit load worse before they get better.

Ps. before I get Bible bashed or the Qur'an thrown at me I use the Ten C's as an example. The others have similar offerings.

On the other hand we could just everyone who steps out of line.