30-day border runs now only 15 days

[Super Joe]

No, I was addressing Crazy88's point about how hard it is for Thais to get visas to other countries compared to our problems here.
Your reply to him bypassed the obtaining visa issue and moved on to working once you've got that visa, I agree with you there.

SJ

[dtaai-maai]

Indefinite leave to remain - ILR.

Yep, if I were a Thai national teaching Thai in the UK on a work permit I'd have ILR by now. Also on the basis of marriage or on any other basis that allows you to stay legally in the UK for a certain number of years (not sure if it's just 2 except for marriage, but it's certainly no more than 5). Once you've got it, no more extensions, visas, etc. You stay entitled to that so long as you remain resident in the UK and don't break the law - simple as that.

[Super Joe]

many of the Thais I know in the UK get something called "indefinite remain to leave" after working and paying tax for two years. This is equivalent to residency

Residency but not permanent residency, if they visit their country for a long period like my wife, they lose that status and have to start again.

All we get after doing the same for over ten years here is the same bullshit treatment - so tell me now which is easier.

You don't have to wait 10 years, after 3 years you can get permanent residency, which you do not lose when you visit another country for a long period.

SJ

[buksida]

Residency but not permanent residency, if they visit their country for a long period like my wife, they lose that status and have to start again.

Whatever the terminology it is far better than the crap you get here having to report every 90 days like a criminal on probation despite having done the same thing for longer than you can remember.

You don't have to wait 10 years, after 3 years you can get permanent residency, better than the UK option to me.

Yes, a snip at 200k, not guaranteed, and you still can't work ... bargain These things should be automatic once you've proved yourself to society. In other countries they are.

[Super Joe]

Whatever the terminology it is far better than the crap you get here having to report every 90 days like a criminal on probation despite having done the same thing for longer than you can remember.

That comes under the minor issues we have here imo.

Yes, a snip at 200k and not guaranteed These things should be automatic once you've proved yourself to society. In other countries they are.

Maybe works out 6,000 Baht per year depending how long you live, bargain

SJ

[buksida]

Maybe works out 6,000 Baht per year depending how long you live, bargain

I only know two people that have it, they still need re-entry stamps, still have to 'report', and still cant work ... it expires if they spend too long out of the country.


bargain ... who do I make the cheque out to?

[Super Joe]

2. Advantages of holding a Resident Permit
2.1. There are several advantages in holding Permanent Residence status:
a. Foreign nationals who hold a Resident Permit may stay in Thailand permanently without needing a visa and therefore having to extend it. The only time they need go to the Immigration Bureau is if they wish to temporarily go abroad in which case they require a Re-Entry Permit called a Non-Quota Immigrant Visa, valid for 12 months. This then enables Immigration officials to ensure that the Permanent Resident does not remain out of Thailand for longer than 365 days.
b. Permanent Residents are not required to report every 90 days to the Immigration Bureau as are other foreign residents in Thailand.
c. Holders of a Resident Permit may purchase a condominium without having to remit funds from abroad whereas a foreigner who is not a Permanent Resident must bring into Thailand the total amount of funds required to purchase a condominium.
d. Permanent Residents are registered in the Household Registration Book oftheir place of residence and this provides them with many rights to which a Thai national is entitles. For example, once they reach the age of 60 years they are issued with the 30 baht card to cover medical treatment at a government hospital or medication from that hospital prescribed by a doctor from the hospital. Few foreigners would take advantage of the 30 baht card however, it simply illustrates the privledge one is entitled to if you hold a Thai Resident Permit and are therefore on a Household Registration Certificate.
e. Holding a Resident Permit is a pre-requisite if applying for Thai citizenship unless you are a female spouse of a Thai national. Suchforeigners are entitled to apply for Thai citizenship without having to first obtain a Resident Permit.
f. A Permanent Resident may be appointed a director of a public limited company even if the majority of other directors on the Board are non-Thai.
g. Work permits are easier to obtain. When a Permanent Resident's work permit is submitted to the Labour Department it is automatically extended for the next 12months.
h. A holder of a Resident Permit may borrow from Thai or Foreign Banks to purchase property in Thailand and may purchase items or vehicles on hire-purchase in their own name. However, in these instances, if the Permanent Resident is over 60 years of age, approval for a loan or of a hire purchase agreement may be refused by the financier.
i. Permanent Residents may act as guarantor for another person including Thai nationals.

People complain about 90 day reporting, how hard WP renewals are, not being allowed to borrow from banks for property or cars, renewing extensions every year.
They provide an solution to it for just 6,000 Baht a year. Seems fair to me mate, but I know we'll agree to disagree.



SJ

[dtaai-maai]

No, I was addressing Crazy88's point about how hard it is for Thais to get visas to other countries compared to our problems here.
Your reply to him bypassed the obtaining visa issue and moved on to working once you've got that visa, I agree with you there.

SJ

Posts crossing, but to address the point that SJ and Crazy are referring to, it's really not that difficult for most Thais to get a visa to visit the UK or any other country. You just need to demonstrate that you have the means to pay for it it and the intention to return to Thailand when you say you will. I know a lot of middle class Thais who have gone to the UK on business, for studies or even as tourists, and they've had no problem at all.

Most of the problems arise when you have a 19-year-old from Isaan who can't speak English wanting to visit her 58-year-old boyfriend living on disability benefit so she can meet the family. We all know that the last thing that most of these girls would want, once they've experienced it for a few weeks, is a life in a council flat in (insert place name here), but there have been enough in the past who have 'moved on' to alternative ways of life to make a certain scepticism understandable. Unfortunately that scepticism affects the honest majority.

Moving on slightly, it would also be quite impossible for a Thai (or any other foreign national from outside the EU) to stay in the UK indefinitely using tourist visas or border crossings. 99% of tourists get 6 months on entry to the UK (I have no idea why - it goes back donkey's years - what percentage of tourists go on a 6-month holiday?) - if you stayed the full 6 months, then did a day trip to Calais in the hope of getting another entry when you got back to Dover, you'd be sadly disappointed.

My grouse with the Thai authorities is that, while they don't really tackle head on the minority of criminal/corrupt farang who could spoil everything for everyone here, they have no appreciation of the benefits of encouraging the vast majority of farang who want to be more than the occasional tourist. They have everything to gain and absolutely nothing to lose by making it easier for farang who can support themselves honestly to stay here.

[dtaai-maai]

SJ - do you have a resident's card? If so, how did you get it? Presumably it's something everyone is entitled to?

I remember the case of your missus - if you have ILR but you're living out of the UK for 2 years you lose it. Basically because you are no longer a resident. However much a pain in the wotsit that is for you personally, it doesn't seem particularly vindictive. It also applies to UK citizens in terms of tax, pension, National Insurance, etc. You're either resident in the UK or you aren't. If she were a Brit and you were a Thai, she wouldn't have any ILR to lose!

Hell's teeth, it's not often I find myself supporting UK govt policy, but let's be objective!

[Super Joe]

D-M, I'm sure it is easy for the middle-class etc Thais to get visas, but for my wife, we had got legally married here it was a saga.
She had to wait 3 months for the interview date, and the paperwork required was far more than you need to show here.
She then had the interview with a Thai and an English speaker firing questions at her, her English wasn't that great at the time. She found it intimidating and more of a grilling than an interview. Don't forget we were married and had 4 years of documents to show a proper relationship, photos, emails, bank statements of money sent, my holiday stamps in passport etc.

Farangs that weren't married and didn't have proof of a long term relationship were/are often refused. So not only is it harder for them to get visas it is often not allowed.
Agree they know when its a bar girl met boyfriend situation and that's when they tighten up on giving visas.

But I really think we have very little to complain about getting in here. Think Thailand has the easiest/cheapest visa options of all it's neighbours!?

SJ

[Super Joe]

SJ - do you have a resident's card? If so, how did you get it? Presumably it's something everyone is entitled to?

I remember the case of your missus - if you have ILR but you're living out of the UK for 2 years you lose it. Basically because you are no longer a resident. However much a pain in the wotsit that is for you personally, it doesn't seem particularly vindictive. It also applies to UK citizens in terms of tax, pension, National Insurance, etc. You're either resident in the UK or you aren't. If she were a Brit and you were a Thai, she wouldn't have any ILR to lose!

Hell's teeth, it's not often I find myself supporting UK govt policy, but let's be objective!

No, not had 3 consequetive, unbroken extensions yet to be able to apply, not sure I'll bother as I don't find anything hassle like others. Link: http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/en ... =residence
Yes she's lost ILR, but they still allow her tax relief on rental income in UK ??

SJ

[dtaai-maai]

I suppose my main question would be 'Do you want to go back to live in the UK?' Your wife wouldn't have a problem, but she might have to get a new settlement visa.

Sorry, SJ it was...

You don't have to wait 10 years, after 3 years you can get permanent residency, which you do not lose when you visit another country for a long period.

... your wife isn't visiting Thailand any more than you are.

[Super Joe]

Not sure if I get what you're asking D-M, but I was saying you do not have to wait 10 years, its only 3 years to apply for Thai Permanent Residency. In UK they can get the ILR after 2years.

Wife has clearly moved out of UK so broke the 'number of days permitted to be outside country' rule, so only right she loses her ILR status.

SJ

[buksida]

SJ, I'm well aware of the 'benefits' and will never agree with you on this issue. The Thai PR is just another version of Thaksin's elite card, designed for the rich retired that don't need to work. You still need to report (but not 90 days), you still can't own dick and you still need to jump through hoops (maybe ten instead of twelve) to get blue book that goes with your red one if you want to work. The price is 192,000 baht (non-married) and 96,000 (married), with a 7,500 baht application fee where it is not guaranteed you'll get it. No idea where your 6k a year comes from, even doing ten separate annual extensions is cheaper than this for a married person.

Visas, work permits and all the other bureaucratic obstructions should *logically* get easier the more times you do them ... not here though.

[dtaai-maai]

D-M, I'm sure it is easy for the middle-class etc Thais to get visas, but for my wife, we had got legally married here it was a saga.
She had to wait 3 months for the interview date, and the paperwork required was far more than you need to show here.
She then had the interview with a Thai and an English speaker firing questions at her, her English wasn't that great at the time. She found it intimidating and more of a grilling than an interview. Don't forget we were married and had 4 years of documents to show a proper relationship, photos, emails, bank statements of money sent, my holiday stamps in passport etc.

Farangs that weren't married and didn't have proof of a long term relationship were/are often refused. So not only is it harder for them to get visas it is often not allowed.
Agree they know when its a bar girl met boyfriend situation and that's when they tighten up on giving visas.

But I really think we have very little to complain about getting in here. Think Thailand has the easiest/cheapest visa options of all it's neighbours!?

SJ

Joe, I don't know much about Thailand's neighbours (although I do know that if I go to Malaysia I get 3 months, no visa and no questions asked), but I'm here - and that says it all!

As for your wife's interview - it was presumably with a Brit visa officer and a Thai interpreter. Fair enough, if her English wasn't up to much. As for the delay - hey, TIT! And in any case, bureaucracy is much the same wherever you go - not good enough. Unfortunately there is as big a percentage of arseholes working in British immigration as there are here, so she might well have felt intimidated. But she presumably got the visa. Did you have to go for an interview at Lunar House in Croydon...?

I haven't yet had the pleasure of meeting you or Mrs SJ, but I'm not planning on going anywhere in the foreseeable future, so I hope we'll bump into each other at some point.

If she was being interviewed for a settlement visa, it would have been long and detailed. 'What toothpaste does he use?' 'What side of the bed does he sleep?' etc. etc. Of course, there is no such thing as a settlement visa for a Brit spouse wanting to live permanently in Thailand.

You may have gathered that, although I teach English at a Thai uni, I have some previous experience of the UK immigration system. Indeed, a lifetime ago that was my job. A lifetime later, it allows me to see both sides of the fence. I am 51, Mrs DM (we have been together 4 years but she will be officially Mrs DM next March) is 31. Not a startling age difference, but I have no illusions that a visit visa would be a piece of cake. I know full well that if we wanted to visit the UK now, whatever I said or wrote would be of very little value, it would be their assessment of Mrs DM and her own intentions that mattered.

I suppose the only point I would make in terms of how difficult it is for Thais to get to the UK is the term 'pressure to emigrate'. The main reason for most Thais to remain in the UK would be to improve their financial options, the main reason for most farang to live in Thailand is the sun and because it's fairly (but decreasingly) cheap to live. And maybe one or two other things, depending on circumstances.

Without being silly about things, with the qualifications I now have I could live in almost any country in the world - I'm here in Thailand in spite of the difficulties put in my path, not because of how easy it is.