Thailand accused of abusing asylum seekers

[STEVE G]

Not meaning any offense at all and just out of curiosity sake, what exactly is the "anti Burmese/Lao/Khymer racism that is drilled into every thai every day through school to unsubstantiated rumor"?

Where my partner lives in Issan is not that far from the Cambodian border and I’ve never come across any racism with regards to the locals attitudes towards Khmer people, and every time I go to a wedding party they seem to play Lao music.
In fact if you go about another 50 kilometers nearer to the border most people speak Khmer rather than Thai.
I think where you will find a racist attitude is amongst the Bangkok high society crowd.

[hhfarang]

Batman gave a few beads and knives for millions of acres of land, yes a very good deal, but not for the indigenous Australians.

Batman?

I thought he and Robin lived in the U.S...

[Khundon1975]

Hi Charlesh
sorry I have been busy and unable to reply to you, but I have a few spare moments now, to look at your latest tome.

I am a little disappointed that u should use the ridicule approach to engage in debate. People are entitled to a view. After all that is what diversity is about and healthy debate promotes mutual understanding about contemporary issues. As for trying to bully/belittle people in writing umh???
I note u have selectively read my comments and have reacted accordingly.

Of course you are entitled to your views, but in all your posts “your views” seem to conflict with widely held (Worldwide) views on political refugee rights.
If you feel bullied or belittled then think about your previous posts calling the refugees “scourge” when you express such views, expect people to give you some flack. It goes with the territory.

U will note that I too indicated that the Koori issue was not of my doing and one that was obviously included as a red herring. Yes I did use google just to check the origin of your earlier comments.

The Aborigine issue was raised by SD 67 I believe, in an effort to highlight the precarious position you had taken, when discussing immigration, as you are a descendant of economic migrants.
I think you have failed to grasp the difference between political and economic refugees.
A little more googleing needed there I think.

The Rohingyas are POLITICAL REFUGEES who have been subjected to violence, rape murder, enforced eviction and excessive taxation by the Burmese Junta for many years.
In an effort to escape this persecution they paid some evil person who supplied boats and overcrowded, they set off in search of freedom from persecution.
After weeks at sea and with no provisions left they wash up on Thailand's
shores.

U seem to lack an understanding of the demographics of Oz as there are lots of people who claim koori/aboriginal ancestry who live in and around major centres such as Melb/Sydney/Adelaide/Hobart which does include a large "swag" of the population. As I indicated also many wish to be referred to as Koori throughout Oz and not just in SE Oz.

I understand Australian demographics better than you it seems, 2.5% of the population of Australia are indigenous Australians, and like most of your population live in the areas you describe mainly because that is the habitable bit (coastal areas)
I feel they (indigenous Australians) would like to return to their tribal lands, but much of it is now cattle stations owned by whites who have excluded them from their spiritual homelands.

The Rohingyas are not allowed to own land in Burma and therefore find it extremely difficult to survive. They do not have a vote nor any form of representation in the capitol.

By the way not all "Aboriginal" people live in humpies in the bush!!!

I never said that they do, if you imply as such you are no better than a scoundrel, you need to get your facts right.

Batman was not heavily armed nor part of a large "invasion force" but lobbed up in a whaler (dinghy) from Tas.
I imagine u have regrets about some of the contracts u have signed in the past too. By suggesting these people have been diddled is correct in retrospect but does indicate their attitude at the time in respect to land and possessions in general. So U may wish to reflect on your opinion of them as uneducated savages - tends to make u both patronising, condescending and superior in relation to these people from an earlier time. Note my use of carpetbaggers earlier!

Bateman did steal their lands by guile and deceit, he knew full well that the Aboriginals have a completely different view of land ownership to the whites, and he played on their lack of understanding, when doing his so called land deals.

If it was so open and honest why are the Australian government giving back these lands and compensating them, your own Prime minister apologised for what went on last year I think.

Where in any of my posts do I say, or imply, that they are uneducated savages? They are your words not mine. I called them “nomad hunter gatherers” which is what many of them still are and have been for 40,000 years.
You need to learn to read the lines, and not what you think is between the lines sonny Jim.
That is condescending and patronising to you, and I meant it.

I note also your judgement of the Thai authorities - well done given that the jury is still out and u have made a judgement on unsubstantiated reports. Hardly the Westminster system of justice!

I expressed my judgement on the Thai authorities based on facts, namely eye witness accounts, and reports from Amnesty International, together with trusted news reports.
Also an admission from an officer in the Thai navy who admitted to being there when the refugees were towed back out to sea.
If you believe they are not guilty of horrendous crimes, you are living in a dream World.

Of course there will be no arrests, trials or convictions of the guilty parties, so World opinion will be the court they will be tried in, and as of right now they are losing their case, big time.

Strange also that u have singled out the Rohingas - yes I know thay were the subject originally of this thread. What is your agenda?? Why not the Karens and the other ethnic minorities that are being persecuted. Their ommission is indeed curious. Compassion fatigue on your part perhaps?

The attempt by these people to relocate can hardly be compared to the Jewish exodus, the Haitian/Cuban/Vietnamese/Kosovar endeavours. Have a good look and ask yourself why??

I have not “singled out” the Rohingyas issue, it is the topic posted in the OP, please try to understand that, even if you understand nothing else on this topic.
I have not looked at, nor compared the Rohingyas plight with the other nationalities you have mentioned, for the same reason as the above.
This is a forum why not start a thread on the subject?

I have “no agenda” other than to see these refugees treated with a little bit of compassion and not cast adrift in an open boat, to what is, almost certain death.
99.9% of posters on this subject seem to feel the same.

What is your agenda? you seem to spout venom when referring to the Rohingyas. Do you really hate them so much, if so why??

When u have the time read the works of Thomas Maltheus and try to translate it to the present. U may understand why "wealthy" countries are now more reluctant (including yours) to go down the compassion road and are closely examining options to deal with major unrest (existing and potential) in poor economic times.

I covered political economics at school when I was 15 and Robert Malthus (correct spelling, he never used the name Thomas) theories were used as an illustration on how wrong economic forecasting can be.
Unfortunately it does not translate to the present day, as his theories don't stand up once you get to the late 19th early 20th centuries. He failed to take into account the Industrial revolution and his theories on birth/death rates have proved to be incorrect, so has his theory that famine would be the great leveller. Huge geometric growth has not resulted in the Malthusian catastrophe he predicted.
You need another hero it seems!

You are correct however when you say I am fatigued, yes mainly due to the following.

It is extremely difficult to have a battle of wits with an unarmed man.

PS By the way, You is the correct spelling not u or U, you are not texting now!

[hhfarang]

http://www.smh.com.au/world/rohingya-ad ... -82b6.html

[charlesh]

So Mr Khundon not quite attentive learning about political economics:
Thomas Robert Malthus (1766-1834)
What many know, at least those with an elementary knowledge of economics or politics, is that Malthus is the surname of a man, who, a couple of hundred years back, said that man, sooner or later, universally, will run up against himself; that the population of mankind will eventually outstrip man's ability to supply himself with the necessities of life. The Malthusian doctrine, as stated in "Essay on the Principle of Population," was expressed as follows: "population increases in a geometric ratio, while the means of subsistence increases in an arithmetic ratio."1 Well, that seems plain enough, and perfectly understandable -- if there is too many people and not enough food, then, certainly, there is going to be problems. Malthus developed his theory, at least to this extent: that left alone, no matter all the problems short of world wide catastrophe, humankind will survive, as, nature has a natural way to cut population levels: "crime, disease, war, and vice," being, the necessary checks on population." This proposition, as was made by Malthus in 1798, was to cause quite a public stir, then, and yet today

QED.

Note the premise of nature having a natural way of cutting population levels. Is that the bit you say has been discredited?
The use of humpies was my inclusion and is not attributed to you. At least I am honest and man enough to admit that, however it was meant to show YOU that many indigineous people live in cities where KOORI is the accepted term between themselves and the wider community and not Aboriginal!!

Do I hate Rohingas - NO. I just do not abide people breaking the law in the manner that they have, effectively queue jumping which I am sure that the same world opinion which you so closely align yourself would also agree. Nor do I like seeing accusations directed without proof and without appropriate investigation.

[sandman67]

This isnt a thread about sodding economists or what aboriginies are called.

Charles

I think your problem, as revealed by the queue jumping comment, is you have a fundamental lack of understanding around what an economic migrant is, and what a refugee is.

The Rongys are not MIGRANTS they are REFUGEES.

They are trying to get away from a brutal and oppressive regime that has made them stateless, and like the same approach to Karen and Chin, is busy trying to wipe them out on the quiet.

Refugees are not part of a "system" of controlled immigration.

Refugees are the most vulnerable part of an international society.

QED

You do not brutalise them further, starve or beat them, or send them out to sea in boats with no engines and little or no supplies.

That is called a CRIME AGAINST HUMANITY

Refugees cost sod all to look after in reality.....less than is spent by nations on stupid military budgets, pointless research into how chips smell, and definitely less that the budgets allocated to sending politicians on jollys.

So when a boatload does wash up on your shore, you arrest the human trafficker, and look after the rest. After all,

There But For The Grace Of God Go I.

or

Am I My Brothers Keeper?

Civilised human beings would answer YES I AM

You and the rest of the NIMBYs answer "How Much Will It Cost?"

[Khundon1975]

Khundon1975 writes

Oh dear here we go again.

As I said in a previous post, please start a thread on the off topic subjects, or the Mods will lock the more important discussion on the original post, you can even weave in the history of indigenous populations if you like.
I would be happy to have a discourse with you on that.

The next two paragraphs are off topic and I will answer you in your new thread on those issues.


So Mr Khundon not quite attentive learning about political economics:
Thomas Robert Malthus (1766-1834)
What many know, at least those with an elementary knowledge of economics or politics, is that Malthus is the surname of a man, who, a couple of hundred years back, said that man, sooner or later, universally, will run up against himself; that the population of mankind will eventually outstrip man's ability to supply himself with the necessities of life. The Malthusian doctrine, as stated in "Essay on the Principle of Population," was expressed as follows: "population increases in a geometric ratio, while the means of subsistence increases in an arithmetic ratio."1 Well, that seems plain enough, and perfectly understandable -- if there is too many people and not enough food, then, certainly, there is going to be problems. Malthus developed his theory, at least to this extent: that left alone, no matter all the problems short of world wide catastrophe, humankind will survive, as, nature has a natural way to cut population levels: "crime, disease, war, and vice," being, the necessary checks on population." This proposition, as was made by Malthus in 1798, was to cause quite a public stir, then, and yet today

QED.

Note the premise of nature having a natural way of cutting population levels. Is that the bit you say has been discredited?
The use of humpies was my inclusion and is not attributed to you. At least I am honest and man enough to admit that, however it was meant to show YOU that many indigineous people live in cities where KOORI is the accepted term between themselves and the wider community and not Aboriginal!!



At last

Do I hate Rohingas - NO. I just do not abide people breaking the law in the manner that they have, effectively queue jumping which I am sure that the same world opinion which you so closely align yourself would also agree. Nor do I like seeing accusations directed without proof and without appropriate investigation.

They were not breaking any laws, "they were breaking their chains", unless you count leaving a country were they were beaten, starved and murdered by the Burmese generals, as a country ruled by a set of Internationally accepted, fair and decent laws.
This is a country (Burma) where a group of Rohingyas were thrown in jail for 6 months, guess what for, their crime was to walk to a city, to look for work!
The Rohingyas are classed by the Burmese generals as criminals, for simply existing.
I bet if you lived there, you would say sod the women and children first, I'm on the first boat out of here.

How strange that you defend a country, (Aus) who's original population was based in the main, on those who broke the laws in another country,(UK) yet are quick to condemn those who have broken no law, other than wishing to escape from a repressive country, like Burma.

The rest of the free World see the Burmese generals for what they are, crooks, thieves, drug peddlers and murderers.

How can you accuse the Rohingyas of queue jumping!
Do you think that the Burmese army has a check out desk for them in Rangoon, with a big sign saying, Rohingyas, this way for a better life.
Wake up for heavens sake. The rest of the free World has, when it comes to opening their doors to political refugees.

Nor do I like seeing accusations directed without proof and without appropriate investigation

As for your last line above, I refer you to the previous answer I gave you on the Thai army in a my last post.

[sandman67]

hey I didnt wanna post this but what the hell....Chang has me,,,,

I worked in Oz with the "authorities" (your federal police who, quite frankly. are fucking clownshoes),,,,,and got to live there for 18 months in 3 x 6 month shifts

Considering that Oz is, in the main, a population made up of the dregs of society....the neer do wells, the guards and economic migrants since a plenty....

considering you, as a nation, send a high percentage of your population abroad to get experience of a world outside "Neighbors"....

I have never, save Thailand, come across a bigger bunch of 1950s attitude NIMBY throwbacks than my 18 moths in Oz.....

Till you get off your collective arses and stop with the 95% of your population lives round the coast....

basically till you get on with the job and decorate further than the garden wall......

THEN you get the right to whine about immigration problems!

Not like you are short of land and resources eh mate......just short on braincells.....or shame....

heres my standpoint......

you are all, Oz and NZ alike.......

colonial scum

Ahhhhh

the Chang has me

[caller]

Okay SM, you didn't like Oz, but Chang or not, your post is as dumb as they come.

Maybe you should delete it when you sober up?

[cozza]

you are all, Oz and NZ alike.......

colonial scum

LOL!!!!

[Khundon1975]

Oh Sh** SM, I have just this minute finished a post, in which I call you a gentleman.

But I can't be assed to go back and delete it.

[sandman67]

caller

chang or not....sober or drunk

its what I believe....colonials are the descendants of the scum we didnt want to deal with so sent to the other side of the world........

""Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore"

I read that as

"Give me your scum, your neerdowells, your unwanted....from these I will forge a nation....a nation of ignorant bigoted donkey raping NIMBYS who can victimise others in the same boat...."

so why should I delete my post?

is it more fucked up than believing in a world of conspiracies and NWO....or more screwed than asking how much it takes to look after the vulnerable members of society?

Or would you prefer, like a spineless wimp, I deny what I believe......????

I prefer to be "loud and proud"...comfortable with my ignorance and bigotry.....and wide open about it.

Let me state this for the record:

I am an equal opportunities hater with a chronic superiority complex and a terminal lack of concern as to how you feel and how my attitudes affect that.

I hate and despise, with every breath I take, every single human being on this sodding mudball of a planet we call home. I hate you and everyone you know....even though I dont know them...just because they draw breath. I despise every so called human being for the simple fact they are alive. I hate you and eveyone you know because you fooled yourselves you are no more than walking talking chimps.

In fact we are doing chimps a disservice there.....chimps live in an environment....we consume and destroy....just like a virus.

As a race we do not deserve the beautiful home we have and destroy.....we are a virus that needs an antibiotic......I look on all I meet, friends, family, etc as an extension of that problem......we need cleaning off.....we are, evolutionary, a BAD idea......hence my snip at 21....Id rather die out than carry on the bad joke that is humanity....

There....

Does that make you uncomfortable? More uncomfortable than the bigotry here that says refugees are OK to be abused and mistreated?

Or would you prefer, like most examples of this misbreeded virus I term humanity, that I lie and tell you what you what to hear?

As Mr Hetfield sad so wisely

Honesty is my only excuse

to me we are all no more than walking talking chimpanzees in suits....

I await some form of epiphany to convince me otherwise......

and if my phillsoffycal standpoint upsets you....feel free to debate it at the next meeting of the HHAD Old Grumpy Mens Club.......we can debate whether any of us have met an evolved human .... in 40 odd years Ive met (in person)....one...and it aint me.

It sounds shallow and pointless....but Mrs S is maybe my philosophical salvation......shes one human Ive met that has no detectable bad bones.....which is why Im madly in love with her.....

the cynic in me tells me shes yet to let me down

[caller]

Nothing you say makes me feel uncomfortable, why should it? It's just that your last two posts are full of drink fuelled crap.

If they're not, then I feel sorry for you.

[cozza]

sandman67,

I asked you whether or not you had personal experience of Burmese/Cambodian/Laos racism?

The only racism I can see from you is towards those you think are lesser than yourself, you obviously believe in a caste system yourself calling colonials lesser, scum. Maybe the reason you highlight the racism in Thailand is because you recognise it in yourself and that makes you hate it.

Take the plank out of your own eye before you notice your brothers splinter.

[STEVE G]

Ahhhhh

the Chang has me

Well at least there is something in your last two posts that we can agree on!