Why have music SO LOUD?
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redzonerocker
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culture
touche!, i thought your post did too!!Jaime wrote:Don't be silly RZR but sorry - it does come across as a bit sanctimonious to me.
i dont quite see myself as trying to preserve thai culture, but i will strive to understand it a little more in the coming years.
the wonderful sentiment, as you so kindly put it, is a matter of personal association.
you cannot buy respect, but you can earn it, no matter what social class you are from.
Remember, no one can make you feel inferior without your consent.
Re: culture
P.S. Of course, in Thailand, the opposite is true...redzonerocker wrote:you cannot buy respect, but you can earn it, no matter what social class you are from.
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redzonerocker
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Re: culture
Jaime wrote:
P.S. Of course, in Thailand, the opposite is true...
Remember, no one can make you feel inferior without your consent.
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DawnHRD
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Stupid me. Been giving this thread a miss as I thought it was still about loud music. Doh! 
Just read the last 2 pages & (much as the purists will hate me for this), I agree wholeheartedly with Jaime's view. I only have 13 years in Asia, but my 7 in HK working with many Asian nationalities, and my 6 here (4 of them being the partner of a 'lower class' guy with long hair & dark skin who got discriminated against constantly by Thais, but never by farang), I believe that the class system & superiority/inferiority complex that accompanies it, is far more prevalent in Asia than in the West. Just look how the majority of Thais will defer to anyone in authority (doctor, police, etc etc) regardless of how petty or ridiculous the rule/statement made.
Genuine question: Of the purists who believe we farang are ruining the Thai culture, how many of you speak fluent Thai? I ask, because I don't speak all that much, and I firmly believe that to fully understand a culture & people, you need to be able to converse (& read & write is good!) in their language to a fluent level. Thus, I cannot pretend to understand the Thai people or Thailand, beyond superficial observations, based on my time here & conversations in English where points made (by either side) may or may not be understood fully.
Just read the last 2 pages & (much as the purists will hate me for this), I agree wholeheartedly with Jaime's view. I only have 13 years in Asia, but my 7 in HK working with many Asian nationalities, and my 6 here (4 of them being the partner of a 'lower class' guy with long hair & dark skin who got discriminated against constantly by Thais, but never by farang), I believe that the class system & superiority/inferiority complex that accompanies it, is far more prevalent in Asia than in the West. Just look how the majority of Thais will defer to anyone in authority (doctor, police, etc etc) regardless of how petty or ridiculous the rule/statement made.
Genuine question: Of the purists who believe we farang are ruining the Thai culture, how many of you speak fluent Thai? I ask, because I don't speak all that much, and I firmly believe that to fully understand a culture & people, you need to be able to converse (& read & write is good!) in their language to a fluent level. Thus, I cannot pretend to understand the Thai people or Thailand, beyond superficial observations, based on my time here & conversations in English where points made (by either side) may or may not be understood fully.
"The question is not, can they reason? Nor, can they talk? But, can they suffer?" - Jeremy Bentham, philosopher, 1748-1832
Make a dog's life better, today!
Make a dog's life better, today!
Forgive me for being a plonker but unless i am seriously mistaken the change in topic was about Thai women eating seperately and on the floor and that it was traditional. Richard, RZR and umwah agreed it is thai custom /traditional and dont want to change it.
I remember the first time i went to a Kentucky fried chicken Big C petchaburi and watching Thais eating chicken wings and legs with a knife and fork and the look of total bewilderment when i used my fingers (10 years ago by the way). They believed as it was a western/falang place they should accomodate by eating western.
I very often eat Thai food with my fingers or chopsticks the same way as they do because i have lost or never had any western hangups .
Simple thought dont just spout when in Rome all the time do it.
Second thought if any falang wants to try to change this place they should ask themselves very seriously why the hell they are here.
Dawn i speak and converse with thais 18 hours a day (i stay away from falangs in the main part) i have been doing so for 24 years fluency is not a huge problem and doesnt mean dip if you are not talking to them at all (Not a personal point as i think you probably speak to more Thais than most )Its the ones that observe but dont ask and then espouse their own personal ill informed western analysis of what they see.
My father taught me never stop learning because when you do you die and never look up and never look down to people it is the latter which has helped me to get to know the tin shack people and richer I am for it.
The class system here is far more complicated than just rich and poor it has a racist element which also complicates it which no one has mentioned i wonder why? after all they all seem to miss it.
Jaime on application i think we will let you join the gang of 3 (it was purely a joke honest)
I remember the first time i went to a Kentucky fried chicken Big C petchaburi and watching Thais eating chicken wings and legs with a knife and fork and the look of total bewilderment when i used my fingers (10 years ago by the way). They believed as it was a western/falang place they should accomodate by eating western.
I very often eat Thai food with my fingers or chopsticks the same way as they do because i have lost or never had any western hangups .
Simple thought dont just spout when in Rome all the time do it.
Second thought if any falang wants to try to change this place they should ask themselves very seriously why the hell they are here.
Dawn i speak and converse with thais 18 hours a day (i stay away from falangs in the main part) i have been doing so for 24 years fluency is not a huge problem and doesnt mean dip if you are not talking to them at all (Not a personal point as i think you probably speak to more Thais than most )Its the ones that observe but dont ask and then espouse their own personal ill informed western analysis of what they see.
My father taught me never stop learning because when you do you die and never look up and never look down to people it is the latter which has helped me to get to know the tin shack people and richer I am for it.
The class system here is far more complicated than just rich and poor it has a racist element which also complicates it which no one has mentioned i wonder why? after all they all seem to miss it.
Jaime on application i think we will let you join the gang of 3 (it was purely a joke honest)
A Greatfull Guest of Thailand
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redzonerocker
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culture
dawn, i too agree with jaime, the same as i agree with sarge & other posters on points made on this subject
i'm sure everyone agrees it is evident, but maybe also that it is sorry indication of life as a whole.
excuse me for being presumptious, but, you were with your partner because you loved & respected him for the person he was? it didn't matter that he had long hair & dark skin & was discriminated against in thai society? correct me if i'm wrong!
that kind of mutual love & respect is sadly missing in some of the higher echelons of society (wherever in the world), where love is often measured by bank balances, flash cars & big houses.
just my opinion & the only point i was trying to make
i'm sure everyone agrees it is evident, but maybe also that it is sorry indication of life as a whole.
excuse me for being presumptious, but, you were with your partner because you loved & respected him for the person he was? it didn't matter that he had long hair & dark skin & was discriminated against in thai society? correct me if i'm wrong!
that kind of mutual love & respect is sadly missing in some of the higher echelons of society (wherever in the world), where love is often measured by bank balances, flash cars & big houses.
just my opinion & the only point i was trying to make
Remember, no one can make you feel inferior without your consent.
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sandman67
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This thing about ruining Thai culture has me scratching my head a bit.
Cultures are fluid and transitional....they develop over time and change - otherwise they reach stagnation.
Back in Blighty a hundred or so years ago it was our culture to indulge in bull baiting, dog fights, and other bloodsports. We thought it was ok for kids to work in mines, factories, etc. We looked down on anyone who wasn't white and British. Time changed all that.
In Bhutan the King and government have isolated the country, and stifle as much western influence as possible. Whilst the country is preserved, the culture is slowly being eroded anyway by satellite TV.....and a lot of the common people now ask why they cant have access to all that lovely new shiny western stuff.
Thai culture is so entrenched, and the Thai's so proud of their heritage, that I cant ever see them ever loosing it. Sure places like Patpong and Hell/Pattaya seem to be loosing it, but head outside there and into village Issan.....westernization is the TV in the house, and the odd gadgets in the kitchen. Manners and customs are still largely intact.
Thailand resisted colonialisation, it always will.
Their culture will slowly change and adapt to fit the needs of the people.....thats inevitable. From what I can gather, as "Father of the Nation" the King keeps a close eye on things, and hopefully will keep checks on any bad stuff.
As a farang with a coincience what you can do is when you see them picking up bad habits off westerners explain that its bad and thats why we choose to live here and not in the so called civilised west.
God bless the King, and God bless the Land of Smiles!
Cultures are fluid and transitional....they develop over time and change - otherwise they reach stagnation.
Back in Blighty a hundred or so years ago it was our culture to indulge in bull baiting, dog fights, and other bloodsports. We thought it was ok for kids to work in mines, factories, etc. We looked down on anyone who wasn't white and British. Time changed all that.
In Bhutan the King and government have isolated the country, and stifle as much western influence as possible. Whilst the country is preserved, the culture is slowly being eroded anyway by satellite TV.....and a lot of the common people now ask why they cant have access to all that lovely new shiny western stuff.
Thai culture is so entrenched, and the Thai's so proud of their heritage, that I cant ever see them ever loosing it. Sure places like Patpong and Hell/Pattaya seem to be loosing it, but head outside there and into village Issan.....westernization is the TV in the house, and the odd gadgets in the kitchen. Manners and customs are still largely intact.
Thailand resisted colonialisation, it always will.
Their culture will slowly change and adapt to fit the needs of the people.....thats inevitable. From what I can gather, as "Father of the Nation" the King keeps a close eye on things, and hopefully will keep checks on any bad stuff.
As a farang with a coincience what you can do is when you see them picking up bad habits off westerners explain that its bad and thats why we choose to live here and not in the so called civilised west.
God bless the King, and God bless the Land of Smiles!
"Science flew men to the moon. Religion flew men into buildings."
"To sin by silence makes cowards of men."
"To sin by silence makes cowards of men."
Nice one Sandman67.
Per Angusta In Augusta.
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DawnHRD
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Re: culture
To be perfectly honest, being a bit of a rock chick/groupieredzonerocker wrote:excuse me for being presumptious, but, you were with your partner because you loved & respected him for the person he was? it didn't matter that he had long hair & dark skin & was discriminated against in thai society? correct me if i'm wrong!
, his long hair was one of the first thing that attracted me. I certainly wasn't averse to his skin tone either. When I met him, I'd only been here a year & mixed virtually only with farangs, so I had no idea that Thais did discriminate within their society. I found out through being with him. It never made me love him less; just made me angry with the idiots that assumed they were better than he was."The question is not, can they reason? Nor, can they talk? But, can they suffer?" - Jeremy Bentham, philosopher, 1748-1832
Make a dog's life better, today!
Make a dog's life better, today!
I was nodding my head studiously until I got to this bit:
West = bad
Thai = good
Give me a break!
Ahhh! I see now:sandman67 wrote:As a farang with a coincience what you can do is when you see them picking up bad habits off westerners explain that its bad and thats why we choose to live here and not in the so called civilised west.
West = bad
Thai = good
Give me a break!
Sandman
Good posting
I should know about old blighty as my father started life as a coal boy hauler deep in a Yorkshire mine
I think we all realise evolution creates change and so called progression
BUT look at the state of dear old blighty now. It's a mess
So many of us love Thailand because of their wonderful culture and respect for their elders
When I venture up to Issan to the wifes village ( been doing it now for 5 years) it reminds me of my young days in the wilds of Yorkshire where the family came first. live of the land and a real community spirit allround
Not so now. No mince pies at school? No smoking in a pub? No Christmas in Birmingham
Thailand is a beautiful place with wonderful people. I feel privileged to be a guest here. I just hope the Burger Kings and McDonald's don't take over
As for all the postings about Class status. That's a fact of life all over the globe
Good posting
I should know about old blighty as my father started life as a coal boy hauler deep in a Yorkshire mine
I think we all realise evolution creates change and so called progression
BUT look at the state of dear old blighty now. It's a mess
So many of us love Thailand because of their wonderful culture and respect for their elders
When I venture up to Issan to the wifes village ( been doing it now for 5 years) it reminds me of my young days in the wilds of Yorkshire where the family came first. live of the land and a real community spirit allround
Not so now. No mince pies at school? No smoking in a pub? No Christmas in Birmingham
Thailand is a beautiful place with wonderful people. I feel privileged to be a guest here. I just hope the Burger Kings and McDonald's don't take over
As for all the postings about Class status. That's a fact of life all over the globe
RICHARD OF LOXLEY
It’s none of my business what people say and think of me. I am what I am and do what I do. I expect nothing and accept everything. It makes life so much easier.
It’s none of my business what people say and think of me. I am what I am and do what I do. I expect nothing and accept everything. It makes life so much easier.
Whole heartedly agree Sarge
I eat Thai food (most of the time) drink Thai beer, Sit on Thai furniture or the floor up in the Northeast, Thai taxis for transport and let the wife watch Thai soaps and movies
Goodbye UK
I eat Thai food (most of the time) drink Thai beer, Sit on Thai furniture or the floor up in the Northeast, Thai taxis for transport and let the wife watch Thai soaps and movies
Goodbye UK
RICHARD OF LOXLEY
It’s none of my business what people say and think of me. I am what I am and do what I do. I expect nothing and accept everything. It makes life so much easier.
It’s none of my business what people say and think of me. I am what I am and do what I do. I expect nothing and accept everything. It makes life so much easier.