Pension cuts could affect future claimaints

[sand_dancer]

Are you one of the expats that will be affected if they push through this legislation...... I certainly am as I will have to offload my house..... And I certainly know that I cannot get my pension paid direct to Thailand....

Or is it unlikely to happen as it will affect individuals who kindly donate to Political Parties coffers ?

I'm no expert on this but would have thought that it is impossible to be classed as 'domiciled' in Thailand unless granted Thai residency there? Something which is very rare.
Is the UK government referring to expats in places like Oz and the US who take the oath etc in their new country?
Either way, the very fact that UK pensions such as yours can't be paid direct to a Thai bank helps in part to imply that the farang still has claim to residency status in the UK, however long they have lived in the LOS. As does property ownership in the UK.
I can't see how anyone should be forced to sell property, when a) they will never be accepted as resident in Thailand and b) if forced to return to the UK for some reason would be subject to the Habitual Residence Test there because they no longer own property!
Then again - the government isn't exactly thinking anything through right now.[/quote]
Mags

I am no expert either..... Not by a long chalk.....

That is why I use a UK based accountancy firm who deal with all my tax matters etc.....

It was the accountants who sent me the information on the above.....

Although I am still working and will continue to do so for a number of years..... I doubt that I will ever return to the UK..... Except for the odd emergency that might mean a trip back for a week or so.....

Yes.... There are certain Countries that I can have my pension paid to directly..... They all have a tax agreement with the UK.... The problem with that is if the UK does bring in this legislation..... I have to go to another Country and then try and open a bank account in that country where perhaps I have never set foot.... In over 20 years.... Not gonna be easy....

Then we can also bring into the equation.... Why should you pay tax in a Country where you do not live..... Will not live..... And possibly never set foot in.... Which is what would happen if I am forced to open an account in another Country due to this proposed legislation.....

As you say..... The Government isn't exactly thinking things through..... I think that applies to ALL Governments over the past 30 - 40 years..... Which is why the UK is in the state that it is in today.....

[sargeant]

Firstly i never expected to live long enough to get a state pension hence i took early retirement

I have paid in 30 years and 4 months of National insurance contributions and expected to recieve 75% of a full pension because until Mags informed me i thought i needed 40 years of contributions.
Had that transpired and the 30 year requirement not happened and i only recieved 75% of a state pension i WOULD NOT complain it would be FAIR.
Had my annual rises been 75% of the rise due to my falling 25% short in contributions i would NOT be complaining it would be FAIR

My British Airways pension was robbed twice to pay money into state pensions that is patently WRONG WRONG WRONG. DOUBLE taxation is THEFT

My BA pension reduces my widows payments by 1.25% for every year she is more than 10 years younger than me and I am NOT COMPLAINING (and in her case it is almost a 25% reduction) it is FAIR

If the govt chose the same criteria for my widows STATE benefits i would also NOT complain it would be FAIR

But the disgraceful acts of paying no annual increases or any widows benefit at all based on where you live is RACIST XENOPHOBIC THEFT

[sand_dancer]

Firstly i never expected to live long enough t get a state pension hence i took early retirement

I have paid in 30 years and 4 months of National insurance contributions and expected to recieve 75% of a full pension because until Mags informed me i thought i needed 40 years of contributions.
Had that transpired and the 30 year requirement not happened and i only recieed 75% of a state pension i WOULD NOT complain it would be FAIR.
Had my annual rises been 75% of the rise due to my falling 25% short in contributions i would NOT be complaining it would be FAIR

My British Airways pension was robbed twice to pay money into state pensions that is patently WRONG WRONG WRONG. DOUBLE taxation is THEFT

My BA pension reduces my widows payments by 1.25% for every year she is more than 10 years younger than me and I am NOT COMPLAINING (and in her case it is almost a 25% reduction)

If the govt chose the same criteria for my widows STATE benefits i would also NOT complain it would be FAIR

But the disgraceful acts of paying no annual increases or any widows benefit at all based on where you live is RACIST XENOPHOBIC THEFT

Sarge

I am now gonna officially rename you Victor Meldrew

I hear you buddy...... I'm in exactly the same boat..... In fact.... I might be worse off as I dont think the state pension will be around when I get to that age..... Even though I paid my 30 years contributions.....

I dont think there is much we can do about it and they will keep on screw*ng whoever they can.....

Look on the bright side..... At least your good lady will get something when your gone..... As things stand.... If I pop my clogs..... My pension/s pop with me.....

Damn..... I need to go find a wife....

[MrPlum]

Bingobango's comment, although politically incorrect, does suggest one avenue for hard up, old fogies, too sick to work but healthy enough to cycle 20 km a day. Send the wife/girlfriend out to work. At least those who have a younger Thai partner. She can easily make 10-20,000 thb per month with a drinks cart or a franchise. Perhaps more. If things get tight, set up two. With Hua Hin expanding there are regular opportunities.

It's naive to believe any pension would be fully available or its value maintained, after retirement. Especially if your provider is a bankrupt government applying austerity measures (bankers and bullets exempted). There is more damage being done to pensioners via the exchange rate and raising the retirement age. Ask France. Military pensions, I would have thought, would be the last to disappear.

UK pensioners must be green with envy when they see benefits paid out to Scandinavian retirees. What did those countries do that we didn't?

Since the latest wheeze is to raid depositors bank accounts, I'd pay some attention to what you are doing to protect your savings, to avoid being Cyprused.

[sand_dancer]

Bingobango's comment, although politically incorrect, does suggest one avenue for hard up, old fogies, too sick to work but healthy enough to cycle 20 km a day. Send the wife/girlfriend out to work. At least those who have a younger Thai partner. She can easily make 10-20,000 thb per month with a drinks cart or a franchise. Perhaps more. If things get tight, set up two. With Hua Hin expanding there are regular opportunities.

It's naive to believe any pension would be fully available or its value maintained, after retirement. Especially if your provider is a bankrupt government applying austerity measures (bankers and bullets exempted). There is more damage being done to pensioners via the exchange rate and raising the retirement age. Ask France. Military pensions, I would have thought, would be the last to disappear.

UK pensioners must be green with envy when they see benefits paid out to Scandinavian retirees. What did those countries do that we didn't?

Since the latest wheeze is to raid depositors bank accounts, I'd pay some attention to what you are doing to protect your savings, to avoid being Cyprused.

Mr Plum

A few points if I may......

1. I do not think it is naive to expect to receive the pension and pension rights that were spelled out to you when you sign your contract....

2. There is a huge difference to cycling 20kms a day to maintain your health..... Than to do a 20kms speed cycle daily.....

3. Those on limited incomes..... Would possibly struggle to set up any kind of business.....

4. Agreed..... What did those small Scandinavian Countries get so right that the UK got so wrong..... Its not really hard to work out.....

[tuktukmike]

I am also no expert in the uk taxation system but after several calls to my tax office in the uk I was told this.

If I spend less than 90 days per calendar year in the uk then I can and probably would be classed as a non dom. Where you are or living I was told is irrelevant.

Having said this the people I was speaking to had to keep going to ask a supervisor as they were not sure of all the facts, I daresay mags knows what I mean in dealing with taxation clerks. Numptys.

Ttm

[sargeant]

Again more baiting from guess who

quote Sand dancer

1. I do not think it is naive to expect to receive the pension and pension rights that were spelled out to you when you sign your contract....

exactly my point of view

2. There is a huge difference to cycling 20kms a day to maintain your health..... Than to do a 20kms speed cycle daily.....

Thats obvious and he knows that its just baiting

3. Those on limited incomes..... Would possibly struggle to set up any kind of business.....

and bluddy impossible to do and study 4/6 hours every day for a degree and i am not on a limited income as stated we are saving 30/40kBt a month

TukTuk mike as i posted a whole year I conversed with them even exchanged xmas cards and they still gave out incorrect advice

[sand_dancer]

I am also no expert in the uk taxation system but after several calls to my tax office in the uk I was told this.

If I spend less than 90 days per calendar year in the uk then I can and probably would be classed as a non dom. Where you are or living I was told is irrelevant. You have to register as nondom... my accountant took care of the paperwork for me

Having said this the people I was speaking to had to keep going to ask a supervisor as they were not sure of all the facts, I daresay mags knows what I mean in dealing with taxation clerks. Numptys.

Ttm

TTM

I am registered as nondom in the UK..... As I am still working..... It means that I can spend up to 90 days a year in the UK and pay no tax on my income.... My pension is a different ball game and I have no option but to pay tax on that as it is taxed at source.....

The issue here is .... The legislation that the Government tried to push through for this tax year..... That if you are registered as nondom...... You are not allowed to hold any assets in the UK..... Including Houses or Bank Accounts......

I do not really want to offload my house in the UK...... But I will if I have to...... My main concern is where do I get my pension paid to..... As it cannot be paid direct to Thailand.....

[sand_dancer]

Sarge,

''and bluddy impossible to do and study 4/6 hours every day for a degree and i am not on a limited income as stated we are saving 30/40kBt a month ''

I do not know you..... Or was referring to you as an individual..... I know not of your financial situation.....

Point 3..... Was merely to point out.... That anyone on a fixed / low income..... Would find it extremely difficult to fund the start up of any type of business..... Whether that be in Thailand or anywhere else....

[Dannie Boy]

I am also no expert in the uk taxation system but after several calls to my tax office in the uk I was told this.

If I spend less than 90 days per calendar year in the uk then I can and probably would be classed as a non dom. Where you are or living I was told is irrelevant.

Having said this the people I was speaking to had to keep going to ask a supervisor as they were not sure of all the facts, I daresay mags knows what I mean in dealing with taxation clerks. Numptys.

Ttm

Non-domiciled and non-resident are two very separate issues and what the person at the tax office seems to have been explaining is the non-residency rules for taxation. That says that you have to spend on average (over a 4 year period) less than 90 days in a year to qualify for non-residency tax status. You could exceed the number of days intone year, say 120, providing that in one of the other years you went below 60. There might also be an upper limit of 180 days in any one tax year,but I'd have to look it up to be certain.

Domicile rules are quite separate and to the best of my knowledge are much more difficult to make a change from what would be your domicile of origin - i.e. the domicile of where you were born e.g. the UK. To become non-domicile I believe you have to make a complete break from the home country and not have any assets there or bank accounts and have no intention to return on a permanent basis. Even visiting family on a regular basis can prevent you qualifying for non-dom status and of course, you have to gain domicile somewhere else and not sure if its possible for a UK national to obtain Thai domicile?

[sand_dancer]

I am also no expert in the uk taxation system but after several calls to my tax office in the uk I was told this.

If I spend less than 90 days per calendar year in the uk then I can and probably would be classed as a non dom. Where you are or living I was told is irrelevant.

Having said this the people I was speaking to had to keep going to ask a supervisor as they were not sure of all the facts, I daresay mags knows what I mean in dealing with taxation clerks. Numptys.

Ttm

Non-domiciled and non-resident are two very separate issues and what the person at the tax office seems to have been explaining is the non-residency rules for taxation. That says that you have to spend on average (over a 4 year period) less than 90 days in a year to qualify for non-residency tax status. You could exceed the number of days intone year, say 120, providing that in one of the other years you went below 60. There might also be an upper limit of 180 days in any one tax year,but I'd have to look it up to be certain.

Domicile rules are quite separate and to the best of my knowledge are much more difficult to make a change from what would be your domicile of origin - i.e. the domicile of where you were born e.g. the UK. To become non-domicile I believe you have to make a complete break from the home country and not have any assets there or bank accounts and have no intention to return on a permanent basis. Even visiting family on a regular basis can prevent you qualifying for non-dom status and of course, you have to gain domicile somewhere else and not sure if its possible for a UK national to obtain Thai domicile?

Danny Boy

That is one of the rules that they didi get through for this tax year...... 90 days per year..... Not averaged over a 4 year period.... Like previous years.....

[Condoking]

The rules to qualify for a full State pension, whatever that may be and at whatever age you may get it, has recently been changed from 30 to 35 qualifying years. Not sure what percentage you will get if, like me, you do not have enough years. It usedto be 40 years until Gordon Brown changed it to 30 so I wouldn't bet against it going back to 40 as times get harder.

I had a deferred Company pension before I transferred it under QROPS. The Trustees told me that if I remarried my new wife would be entitled to full widowers pension providing she was not more than 10 years younger than me. More than this then her entitlement would be progressively reduced. Under QROPS whoever I bequeath the remaining pot to gets 100% of the pot to do with as they wish.

[richard]

Well this whole bloody issue is confusing. I've had chats with many people including Maggie about this and am still no clearer.

I started to receive my state pension of 123.80 pw in April 2011. I was awarded the annual increments and coal allowance accordingly. I had made trips to the UK in 2004,5,6,9 and 2012. In May 2012 I received a letter to inform me I was no longer considered an 'ordinary resident' with effect from 2009.

To quote them............. "Ordinary resident means that a person must be normally resident apart from temporary or occasional absences of long and short duration. bla,bla,bla...........There is no fixed time limit attached to the term ordinary resident"

My pension was reduced to 96.24 pw so they could claw back the over payments. I battled long and hard all to no avail You are when dealing with these numptys and their regulations.

No point in getting rocked up about it and getting a heart attack. Accept it or go back and claim benefits up to the hilt. Go back and overload the NHS with your ailments. Creat a few to screw the system. Claim a house or buy a big cardboard box and live in Piccadilly

So I'll settle for my 123.80 a week and enjoy the climate, food and ambiance of Thailand until such time I am forced to go back and screw my country. I may be lucky insomuch as I have no dependents to worry about and also benefit from two small private pensions.

Rule Britannia

[sand_dancer]

Richard

It is very confusing...... And there is different rules for state pensions and private pensions.....

The Government are changing rules faster than bars change hands in HH....... Mainly because they have to claw back as much money as they can..... And it is far easier to hit slow moving targets.....

the fact of the matter is..... For them that need to do so.... You cannot forward plan..... No plan can keep up with ever moving goalposts.....

For me..... That means.... I will continue to do as I do now..... When I reach retirement age.... If there is still a state pension by that time..... I will go back to the UK..... Sort out all my state pension stuff.... Get out of them whatever I can..... And simply fly back to Thailand....

The Government are slowly closing this option..... With the laws they are trying to bring in regarding bank accounts and housing...... If you are nondom..... ie.... you do not live in the UK..... you cannot have any assets..... The next thing that will probably come out as they weedle out the state pension..... Is that if you do not live permanently in the UK..... They will not pay you a state pension....

[tuktukmike]

Ha,

I wonder if the asset situation applies to Lord Ashcroft and his likes.

Very much doubt it.

Ttm