Why have music SO LOUD?

[redzonerocker]

Goodbye UK

he says as he sups his pint of john smiths,whilst eating his sunday roast & watching the eastenders omnibus at buffalo bills

only joking richard

[sandman67]

Jaime, I aint saying all that is western is bad and all that is Thai is good - I see the bad and good in both. Just seems to me we in the west lost our way about 50 years ago and now, as Richard points out so well, its all gone to shit.

Theres a load of reasons and causes, but I would put my finger most on the Thatch years when the hearts of communities were torn out, and our national interests were sold lock stock and barrel to cheaper foreign suppliers of coal, steel, oil, and anything else they could rip apart. Take a look at what happened to the welsh, scottish and british communities once the coal and steel and shipping industries collapsed. Seen Dagenham lately?

In my book that started the rot. No more real working communities, poverty and unemployment.....cue the uncontrolled greed of the 80s and early 90s etc....

Here at least family and community still seem to mean something. Sure there are a lot of things wrong with Thailand as a functioning nation, - their government and banking systems leave a lot to be desired.

But theres one main difference - Thailand is still owned and run by Thais.

And on the pointing out bad habits stuff - well whenever my adopted kids ask for KFC or Macdonalds, I just point to the nearest overweight farang and tell them that if they eat that they will grow up to be a "farang chang"...seems to work.

[Big Boy]

sandman67 wrote:

the welsh, scottish and british communities

[Jaime]

I eat Thai food (most of the time) drink Thai beer, Sit on Thai furniture or the floor up in the Northeast, Thai taxis for transport

Whoop de doo! Something for me to aspire to..... Seriously, come on – don’t we all do this?

and let the wife watch Thai soaps and movies

Look, I'm honestly not trying to be deliberately antagonistic but do you realise how that reads Richard? What else do you let her do?

Fellas, when I read this stuff I can’t help thinking that you are becoming as parochial as the country in which you choose to live. Good luck to you - if you are happy then that is all that matters and I'm genuinely happy for you but all this stuff about how shit Britain/the west is, is just boring. I live in Britain and don't think it's shit. In fact I think it's a great place to be. I'm not political at all, I don't feel dispossessed by 'immigrants' because I don't worry about what others are up to - I just concentrate on earning my honest corn, enjoying my own life and taking care of my family.

Sandman, you don't need to tell me anything about Welsh mining communities - I live in one. Clean, green and friendly - we have been able to adapt because we've had to. The valleys are now satellites to the gravitational pull of Cardiff's fledgling economy and burgeoning cultural life. Of course, we are also connected to most other major cities - London & Birmingham within three hours, as is most of Europe by plane. The Brecon Beacons and Pembrokeshire Coast National Parks are on the door step - we love it here.

Of course, we also love Thailand and I do speak conversational Thai to a reasonable standard, although my proficiency seems to be waning as my visits are becoming less frequent but even my limited Thai allows me insights into the Thai psyche beyond the superficial veneer of smiles and wais that betray so much.

Of course the charm and simplicity of Thai rural life is attractive - because as a foreigner you are able to live above the standard of the vast majority of Thais and are simply observing it! Rice farming as part of an extended family is not your reality! You can walk away any time you like - Thais can't.

I've spent alot of time up country and frankly, it bores me rigid and I don't envy the life of anyone who has to eke out such a mundane living there, amongst the alcoholism, mysogony, gambling, money lenders, drug use, etc, etc. They all want something better but they don't have the means or education to do so because unlike Britain, Thailand is not a meritocracy - that is why there is a Thai diaspora working in factories all over more developed parts of Asia; Korea, Taiwan, Japan etc. and in places as far away as Israel, where many Thais go to work as cheap labour on the farms. Not to mention the magnetic economic appeal of Bangkok, the only proper city in a country of 60 million. The effect? Families split, kids brought up without parents, farms not being worked.

Behind the smiles there is a lot of sadness - so many kids without parents - most have a story to tell.

As for Thailand being owned and run by Thais - well what is your point? You already mentioned that the government left a lot to be desired! Thailand is hardly an economic powerhouse and as a political player is an also-ran.

These Britain is shit/Thailand is great comparisons are as worthless and nonsensical as the idea that development (aka 'western' influence) should be slowed or limited because it suits our image of what Thailand should really be like. That is paternalism at its worst.

[DawnHRD]

Jaime, I aint saying all that is western is bad and all that is Thai is good - I see the bad and good in both. Just seems to me we in the west lost our way about 50 years ago and now, as Richard points out so well, its all gone to shit.

Theres a load of reasons and causes, but I would put my finger most on the Thatch years when the hearts of communities were torn out, and our national interests were sold lock stock and barrel to cheaper foreign suppliers of coal, steel, oil, and anything else they could rip apart. Take a look at what happened to the welsh, scottish and british communities once the coal and steel and shipping industries collapsed. Seen Dagenham lately?

In my book that started the rot. No more real working communities, poverty and unemployment.....cue the uncontrolled greed of the 80s and early 90s etc....

Here at least family and community still seem to mean something. Sure there are a lot of things wrong with Thailand as a functioning nation, - their government and banking systems leave a lot to be desired.

But theres one main difference - Thailand is still owned and run by Thais.

And on the pointing out bad habits stuff - well whenever my adopted kids ask for KFC or Macdonalds, I just point to the nearest overweight farang and tell them that if they eat that they will grow up to be a "farang chang"...seems to work.

OK, my view, not moddy view


BS.

IMO you are seeing Thailand through rose coloured glasses and the West through grey (or black) coloured ones.

Uncontrolled greed in the UK? Have you spoken to everyone there? Your book? Is that mentioned in the thread somewhere? I missed it. I'm not going to talk to you about what my Mum is doing for me & my Thai son in the UK. I'm also not going to mention what British people (HHAD members & non) have done for the center. Richard doesn't like me to mention handouts. You're generalising &, thus, not seeing things objectively, IMHNMO.

No uncontrolled greed in Thailand? OK, then.

Thailand is still owned & run by Thais. Agreed. Who owns & runs Western countries, in your opinion?

BTW, any self respecting farang would run screaming from KFC Thailand. It's mainly Thais that eat there.

[DawnHRD]

Missed your post, as I was writing mine, Jaime.


Great post.

[Norseman]

Great post Jaime.

[hogus]

Excellent post, Jamie!

There is nearly nothing to add anymore!
Really a great analyze, and not only what someone just like or want to see in his first euphoria.

[CliveBLive]

richard wrote:
and let the wife watch Thai soaps and movies

Is that when you are experiencing strawberry condums, you shinny diamond? :D

[Wanderlust]

Jaime,
Ditto what others have said, good post. However I believe that a lot of the negatives that are written on this board about the UK come not from personal experience but from reading about it in the papers, and the general perception has grown that the UK is a 'bad' place to be. However, for many of us, our individual circumstances led us to having a less than rosy view of living in the UK in the present or future, whether that be down to job prospects, retirement prospects, relationship prospects or whatever. You can't criticise someone for their opinion on 'their' UK as it will never be the same as the experience you have had in your part of the country.
I actually think that the UK is a great place BUT for me I was fed up with the weather, i was fed up with the career I had found myself in, I was fed up with the relationships i had had and was not having, fed up with a growing lack of respect shown to others and was fed up with how expensive the place was/is. So I decided to go travelling, with no more thought of settling somewhere than putting a hole in my head, but i ended up in Thailand and found it much better than the UK for me - personal opinion of course. I agree general comparisons between the two countries are a waste of time, but someone's personal opinion on their life in the two countries are not, and that is generally what people offer on here. I too dislike the throwaway easy snipes that some on here use against immigrants in the UK, but unfortunately it seems to be the nature of the average British person to be inherently racist, even if they have only read about such things as the 'immigrant problem' rather than actually experienced them
As far as the direction this thread has turned with some bemoaning the dilution of Thai culture and others wishing for more westernisation, I find it a very odd discussion. Business is business, so the McDonalds and KFCs of this world will open where they see a profit, and the Thais will lap it up as the UK did before but it doesn't change the essential values of the society or stop people eating on the floor if they want to; it is all about personal choice. The whole world is gradually adapting to all sorts of influences from everywhere, and except for some extreme places like Burma, countries all over the world will change and adapt. I guess my approach to these type of situations is, whatever will be, will be, because I can't see why I should try and impose my will on others. I guess I'll never be a politician after all....

[richard]

RZR

Who are you?

The pint was on BB

I always like my Sunday roast and BB's is the best I've had so far

TV I never watch

[richard]

Jamie

Sad post from you

Think you are out of touch

[redzonerocker]

I agree general comparisons between the two countries are a waste of time, but someone's personal opinion on their life in the two countries are not, and that is generally what people offer on here.
I too dislike the throwaway easy snipes that some on here use against immigrants in the UK, but unfortunately it seems to be the nature of the average British person to be inherently racist, even if they have only read about such things as the 'immigrant problem' rather than actually experienced them

i agree with the first part.
the second i can speak from experience having lived inner city for most of my life.
the 'immigrant problem' in the uk is real & is a threat to society as a whole.you dont have to be inherently racist to see whats going on or what the future holds.its there in your face everyday on the streets.
the problems have increased at an alarming rate over the past few years & its almost at breaking point.
the social & welfare system is at the point of collapse under the sheer weight of the extra numbers, most of which have contributed nothing to the system or nothing to society as a whole.
i am talking about housing ,schools , health service, policing, benefit payouts. all are stretched to the limit.
the newly arrived immigrants are overtaking the working classes in standards of living without contributing anything to the system.
that can't be right, whatever country you hail from

no wonder there is such a big undercurrent of discontent in the uk

[DawnHRD]

^ You mention the immigrant problem in UK, rzr. When I was back there, a month ago, I was amazed at the media frenzy re immigrants (the day I left was the day after the fire in the veg warehouse & people were bemoaning the fact that at least one firemen had lost his life in the attempt to rescue immigrants - I wonder whether the same would have been said if it were British citizens that had been working & sleeping there?) and by the dislike that most of the British people I met had for immigrants. It also worried me, personally, as some of the changes to the law would make it difficult for me to take my son back, should I ever be able to adopt him.

Anyway, I digress a little, but just a little. My point is this: In Thailand we are the immigrants & will always be seen as such, no matter how much we feel we've integrated. We will always be farang.

[richard]

Dawn

Very true regarding Thailand, we are guests and always will be

The Uk is different

Anybody walking in from other countries can claim benefits and assumes they are British there and then

I've even been told by a turban wearing man from Yorkshire to go home. 'You don't belong'

Country is screwed