Another Senseless Death!

[huahinsimon]

I live not far from Hua Hin school, and I can't believe it when I see school kids coming out (about 8 - 10 yrs old) riding motorbikes without helmets on, sometimes with 2 or 3 mates on board, and there are police there!! If you don't enforce basic safety rules when kids are at school, then you might as well give up...

I give up!

HHS

You show me your love and I'll show you mine.

[HHTel]

Maybe a surprise to some, but the traffic laws in Thailand are there and are more than adequate. The law DOES state that there should be no more than two on a motorcycle and both have to wear helmets. It IS law that motorcycles are to have their lights on at all times. The problem as usual is the police themselves. They often don't have enough knowledge of traffic laws (In BKK some time ago more than 12% of traffic cops failed a test on traffic regulations!) and what they do understand, they do/will not enforce!

This thread has been in every direction (even the wrong way!) and of course, it's not going to change anything.

[KelpieKiss]

The worst is when you see a 2 year old baby, precariously standing on the front of the seat with it's little hands on the bars. One slip or bump and it's baby soup. Nobody bats an eyelid.

Britney Spears has her baby on her lap in a car and the press go mental.

[Vital Spark]

One of the problems here, in this 'developing' country is that most people can't afford a car. They have no other choice than to ride a relatively cheap motorcycle, if they want to get from A to B. Mum, dad, and the kids. They have no other option.

Very few people here in the sticks wear a helmet. It's an extra expense that they (foolishly) think is not important. Anyway, I've never seen kiddies helmets for sale even if they did think it'd be a good idea. I'll never forget the sight of a naked baby in the front basket of a motorcycle that turned up at our local shop.

It's ignorance (in the best possible sense of the word) and no amount of legislation will filter through to the rural areas. Sad, but true...

VS

[Big Boy]

Vital Spark wrote:

I've never seen kiddies helmets for sale even if they did think it'd be a good idea.

VS,

I've got 2 young grandchildren in Hua Hin - 1 - 10 years old and 1 - 2 years old. Yes, against my wishes they ride on bikes with their parents, but both do wear helmets at my insistence. Both helmets were purchased in Hua Hin, and were not too expensive.

[huahinsimon]

I'm not trying to provocative, huahinsimon, but I still fail to see the connection in this thread.
If you're trying to say that all laws should be enforced, then good luck to you and I'd agree.
...
Personally, I think there's a huge difference between careless/reckless/selfish driving and acts of atrocity against children.

There's just no comparison in my book and to try and lump the two things into the same equation just dosn't make sense to me -other than the utopian concept that all laws should be obeyed.

You are not being provocative, Iomu. Frustrating but not provo. If you read closely, it seems fairly obvious that I was making a cultural comparison. I said nothing about "all laws should be enforced. However others said that if Thailand's driving laws were enforced things would be better.

I opined as to why THE DRIVING LAWS IN LOS WERE NOT ENFORCED. It's a cultural thing. I also opined in contrast that capital punishment was warrented in certain cases(not to be mentioned again for fear of offending)but not used for western cultural reasons.

Are you with me so far, IOMU?

I contend that "careless/reckless/selfish driving" often results in an atrocity against children- sensless death, and suffering. Are you with me here? I dont know the statistics but I'll wager thousands of children are injured, maimed, and killed by such driving. Is that not an atrocity? Not exactly willful as in the other case but similarly devastating in consequences. Or where am I going wrong?

You say there is no comparison in your book. Well "you can lead a horse to water but you cant make it drink." I made a comparison using two diverse cultures, where senseless death and injury could be reduced but is not, each as a result of cultural toleration and willingness to accept KNOWN CONSEQUENCES of certain behavior.

Iomu. I ask you this? Are you in favor of capital punishment for (dare I say it) the p. word? If not then you are willing to accept the certain death and injury of those children who inevitabily get abused and murdered by repeat offenders. And you must believe these deaths are a reasonable trade off for not using the death penalty to make sure there are no "repeat offenders." and you are willing to take the risk that your children will not be the victims. I am not willing to take that risk. Unfortunately Western society is willing to take that risk and I must live with it.

Just as in Thailand people are willing to take the risk of reckless driving. If they were not, defacto, it would be different. Police would enforce, etc BECAUSE THE PEOPLE DEMAND IT. But they dont because they dont.

I cant be any clearer than that my man. I could be making a faulty comparison. but I think not. and I suggest that it is invalid in the case of endemic bad and risky driving in Thailand, to say that careless driving is hugely different from atrocities against children, because you do not take the equation the two or three children often on these motorbikes plus the adults and the senseless death and injury they often sustain. Those are atrocities in my book.

Good night and good luck!

HHS

[Wanderlust]

huahinsimon,
I understand the connection you are attempting to make, but there is a flaw in your comparison in my eyes. This flaw is that in both offences it is against the law of those countries and there is a prescribed penalty or range of penalties available to the courts; disagreements over what the penalty should be are actually irrelevant to this discussion, and the difference between the two cultures is that in general any crime against children in the west is discovered and acted upon by all involved - police, public and courts, whereas even blatant traffic offences in Thailand are ignored completely at the first step, the police. What you are arguing is that the laws and penalties are insufficient in the case of child abuse in the west, whereas the enforcement of existing laws is insufficient in Thailand, so you are trying to compare apples with oranges, as they say, and offending people in the process. The ultimate consequences can be tragic in both types of offence but no one is arguing about that, and your desire to see a type of 'future crimes' policy adopted (a la the movie 'Minority Report') so that all child sex offenders get the death penalty is quite frankly disturbing from a number of angles. However horrific a crime is there has to be strong evidence of actual repeat offending to even consider what you are suggesting, but that really is a different topic.

[STEVE G]

HSS wrote:

I opined as to why THE DRIVING LAWS IN LOS WERE NOT ENFORCED. It's a cultural thing. I also opined in contrast that capital punishment was warrented in certain cases(not to be mentioned again for fear of offending)but not used for western cultural reasons.

I'm a bit confused by all this; exactly which driving offences are we proposing capital punishment for?
Seriously though, many of us come from countries where capital punishment is not practiced so any comparison is not really valid.