local election

[caller]

caller,
I've always thought Ken Livingstone was one of the better politicians, as regards being straight about his views and not trying to con the public; whether that changed when he became Mayor i don't know, but the 'scandal' over one of his closest advisers seemed more like a cleverly worked campaign to tarnish livingstone in the run up to the mayoral elections. neither the Tories nor Labour really wanted him as Mayor when he first stood for it, which to me always made him a more viable candidate!

To me, he has always been corrupt. Even the way he gained power of the the old GLC stank - after the original London Labour leader was thrown out the day after the election and Ken was installed as leader.

The Standard and other papers have printed virtually irrefutable evidence of corruption involving his advisors. In one example, a Co. was awarded a contract despite having no expertise in the field and it emerged it was run by an advisor to the croney awarding the contract. No services were provided and the money has gone.

Even Livingstone had to back pedal on his initial reactions that there was nothing wrong.

There are so many examples and personally, I feel that was one of the major factors about his defeat. Most editorials - even the chattering classes bible, The Guardian, have commented on the fact he had become out of touch. At the end of the day, he stopped communicating and listening and paid the price.

I liked the quip by Johnson when he said that before he enters City Hall as Mayor, he is sure the shredders will be working overtime. I bet he's relieved, as sometimes the best way of dealing with these matters is to consign them to history.

[Jockey]

Isn't Boris Johnson an upper class twit?

[Big Boy]

Isn't Boris Johnson an upper class twit?

Do you remember Spitting Image? There's a new version in the UK now called Talking Heads - great characterisation of Boris last night as a dog chasing his own tail

[Spitfire]

There are some good posts on this topic about the 'west' as well as Thailand. Agree with many, it's just more blatent here as if they don't care about what anyone thinks. It happens everywhere, but not with the same contempt for what the general electorate thinks, as can be found here.

The posts about that the west are no different and are sort of half correct.

They might not do much different(in the west), but they have to convince us that they are not hopelessely corrupt, so they have to come up with ideas, even if rubbish, that are media friendly and sort of along the positive lines(even if only the idiots swallow it).

The truth is always elusive and hard to pin down.

Not sure of when was the last time I heard it.

People believe what makes them feel comfortable. The truth has nothing to do with it.

The truth is a difficult concept. It's nothing more than a certain set of happenings at a certain time in a certain place which are interpreted in a certain way. How it is interpreted is up to you and will become your truth.

The reason there is so much difference of opinion is that people interpret things from their position, which is often different from everyone else, which depends on their experiences until now.

Whatever floats your boat will become your gospel.

[STEVE G]

:shock: Isn't Boris Johnson an upper class twit?

This link has some classic quotes to help you make your mind up:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/a ... ge_id=1770

[Wanderlust]

caller,
I've always thought Ken Livingstone was one of the better politicians, as regards being straight about his views and not trying to con the public; whether that changed when he became Mayor i don't know, but the 'scandal' over one of his closest advisers seemed more like a cleverly worked campaign to tarnish livingstone in the run up to the mayoral elections. neither the Tories nor Labour really wanted him as Mayor when he first stood for it, which to me always made him a more viable candidate!

To me, he has always been corrupt. Even the way he gained power of the the old GLC stank - after the original London Labour leader was thrown out the day after the election and Ken was installed as leader.

The Standard and other papers have printed virtually irrefutable evidence of corruption involving his advisors. In one example, a Co. was awarded a contract despite having no expertise in the field and it emerged it was run by an advisor to the croney awarding the contract. No services were provided and the money has gone.

Even Livingstone had to back pedal on his initial reactions that there was nothing wrong.

There are so many examples and personally, I feel that was one of the major factors about his defeat. Most editorials - even the chattering classes bible, The Guardian, have commented on the fact he had become out of touch. At the end of the day, he stopped communicating and listening and paid the price.

I liked the quip by Johnson when he said that before he enters City Hall as Mayor, he is sure the shredders will be working overtime. I bet he's relieved, as sometimes the best way of dealing with these matters is to consign them to history.

I know there have been internal and police investigations into this, but for me there are two questions; has anyone been prosecuted and found guilty or are the papers judge and jury now? And didn't Livingstone do a pretty good job in running London?
Your remarks about him becoming head of the GLC seem to smack of an unreformed Thatcherite who agreed with the abolishing of the metropolitan councils, which in my opinion were one of the worst things (among many) that her government did.

Sorry to sidetrack this thread but I really don't agree that Livingstone is a good example of a corrupt politician - I believe that he was genuine in his desire to make London a better place for everyone, and was genuine in his ideologies when younger. The media always hounded him, labelling him 'Red Ken' and it appears that they have never let up.

[Spitfire]

Take your point Wanderlust, but Ken has been blowing it a bit just lately. When elected, did a good job but has got into trouble a bit recently. Maybe you're right, just the papers, but that's part of being a politician( have to die by the sword aswell ).

[dtaai-maai]

Isn't Boris Johnson an upper class twit?

This link has some classic quotes to help you make your mind up:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/a ... ge_id=1770

'Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson' Well, given that, and the fact that he went to Eton, not to mention his accent, there's a fair chance he may be somewhere in the regions of the lofty in the UK. Having said that, I've always quite liked the guy, having first seen him on 'Have I Got News For You' (mind you, I always quite liked Ken as well). I enjoy a bit of eccentricity, and while I'm not quite daft enough to believe he doesn't exploit that, I suspect most of it is genuine. Have a look at his Wikipedia entry, which, to my astonishment, includes his election as mayor of London.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boris_Johnson


And have a look at Steve G's link - the quotes from Boris are hilarious!

[Gutte]

Sorry, just realised I was wrong in an earlier post where I said I remembered reading somewhere that China got rid of corruption by implementing an ambitious programme.

China is still corrupted of course – no. 72 on the Transparency International list, only 12 steps better than Thailand.

Now I start to actually remember a little of what I read: it was all about the Chinese police force, no other parts of society. And what they did was raising the policemen’s salaries 100 % in combination with implementing very strict rules against all kinds of corruption within the force. Breaking those rules meant losing a well-paid job. It’s supposed to have worked out very well. It took 10 years but now the police are basically clean there.

It's a start, isn't it? Couldn’t this be something for Thailand?

(Oh I forgot – almost everyone on here states that Thailand is no more corrupted than Europe. So no need then…)

[Super Joe]

as di-mi said you cant help but like boris, he's well funny, always entertaining and brutally honest at times, not sure thats his role mind
some of those lines steveg linked too are classic

the uk fairs well on that list of corrupt nations ...... or does it really ? maybe 'Transparency International' take a bung ?

the US doesn't fair quite so well, and their most recent of colonies is 3rd from bottom!!
.

[caller]

Your remarks about him becoming head of the GLC seem to smack of an unreformed Thatcherite who agreed with the abolishing of the metropolitan councils, which in my opinion were one of the worst things (among many) that her government did.

Sorry to sidetrack this thread but I really don't agree that Livingstone is a good example of a corrupt politician - I believe that he was genuine in his desire to make London a better place for everyone, and was genuine in his ideologies when younger. The media always hounded him, labelling him 'Red Ken' and it appears that they have never let up.

Even if I was an unreformed Thatcherite, whatever that is, is that a problem? (I'm not by the way). In my opinion the way he first gained power was an abuse of the system. The guy leading the London Labour group then was, I believe, called Mackintosh. The day after he, as leader of the Labour group, was elected by Londoners, the London party held a vote and he was kicked out as leader by Livingstone. So it appears that Labour in London had decided in those days that Livingstone was unelectable.

Without doubt, Livingstone was part of the Labour party with it's policies etc that eventually got routed by the Tories. That was Labours own fault for doing then, as now, and not listening to the guy in the street. And of course, Thatcher took the rather petulant act of disbanding the Labour assembly that Livingstone was leader of.

Incidentally, you will find that some of his 'ministers' then were brought basck by Livingstone in 2000, despite the fact they had been out of the equation for a long time, most now on six-figure salaries - cronyism? You bet!

The Police investigation is ongoing as I said in my post. I also said that I doubt charges will be brought and gave the reasons for that. The internal enquiries are meaningless as its his own people that have been doing it - hardly unbiased. At the very least he should have brought an independant Audit House in, or better still, a team of experienced investigators.

The public has voted and that's the end of it, and Ken.

I stand by everything I have said about him.

[redzonerocker]

livingstone just paid the price for labours failings at national level.
if the tories had coco the clown as their candidate, he would have most likely got elected
instead we have boris

i think i would have preferred coco

[caller]

livingstone just paid the price for labours failings at national level.
if the tories had coco the clown as their candidate, he would have most likely got elected
instead we have boris

i think i would have preferred coco

Yes, I agree. I was one of the 'anyone but Livingstone' voters!

[Jockey]

Hey some great posts here

redzonerocker
livingstone just paid the price for labours failings at national level.
if the tories had coco the clown as their candidate, he would have most likely got elected Very Happy
instead we have boris

Redzone - I see where your coming from


Super Joe
u cant help but like boris, he's well funny, always entertaining and brutally honest at times, not sure thats his role mind

agreed (and as usual your posts are spot on)

Gutte
Sorry, just realised I was wrong in an earlier post where I said I remembered reading somewhere that China got rid of corruption by implementing an ambitious programme.

A poster admiting he was wrong!!


Dtaai - Maai
Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson' Well, given that, and the fact that he went to Eton, not to mention his accent, there's a fair chance he may be somewhere in the regions of the lofty in the UK. Having said that, I've always quite liked the guy,

Me Too! Everyone enjoys an upper class twit!

Wanderlust
I know there have been internal and police investigations into this, but for me there are two questions; has anyone been prosecuted and found guilty or are the papers judge and jury now? And didn't Livingstone do a pretty good job in running London?

Absolutely correct. No matter how good a job you do, if there is corruption money to be made, better to get rid of the non corrupted person by insinuating the non corrupted person is corrupt in order to be able to put in someone who is completely corruptable. I think wanderlust speaks the most sense, but not the most entertaining - that goes to redrock!

[caller]

Wanderlust
I know there have been internal and police investigations into this, but for me there are two questions; has anyone been prosecuted and found guilty or are the papers judge and jury now? And didn't Livingstone do a pretty good job in running London?

Absolutely correct. No matter how good a job you do, if there is corruption money to be made, better to get rid of the non corrupted person by insinuating the non corrupted person is corrupt in order to be able to put in someone who is completely corruptable.

You guys have been out of the UK for way, way too long, which of course, is a good thing - no, no, not you personally, rather the concept. I'm envious.