I've just re-read this whole thread and what strikes me now is the difference Trotter's post made to it.
Most, if not all, posts before were about us, as farangs, getting married to a Thai. Trotter's and others, changed the direction, in as much as it was about someone's offspring. Not the giving, but the receiving.
That puts a different complexion on it.
I honestly can't work the dowry system out, although I paid it, as I said in page one.
At the house of my wife's sister a few days ago, a very drunken Thai walked in with an "uncle"/ leung of my wife's family and professed undying love to the sister's 15 year old daughter. I was told to "shut up" - politely. It was quite amusing to sit quietly and get the feel of what was going on. The young man obviously was interested, but had got drunk to get the courage up to approach the parents and made a real mess of it all. Everyone was patient and he eventually left. That was not before the girl came out of the house, got on her bike and sped away.
Afterwards, I asked the father what the familys' thoughts were.
"Not the right way to approach the situation".
Whether they viewed him as a potential money spinner, I can't guess and it's not my business. But that was right in front of my eyes, on father's day, Dec 5th - King's birthday.
Dowry
Guess,Guess wrote:[
Just a quick question for Caller.
If in some terrible set of circumstances that you had to re-marry in the future and you chose one of your neighbors, would you have to pay a Sin Sod to her family and would that we a one off payment or would you then have to invest in a garden full of kennels to keep her lunch fresh.
BLUE IS BEST
I am far to simple a soul to be able able to understand such a cryptic riddle! I may have an opportunity to deal with it if you could kindly break it down into its component parts!!
Many thanks.
Caller
Talk is cheap
-
Guess
- Deceased
- Posts: 3470
- Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2005 3:01 pm
- Location: BangSaphan. Laurasia. Sub thumb
Just me thinking aloud really, nothing particularly clever. I have just got fed up with this subject going round in ever increasing circles.caller wrote:
I may have an opportunity to deal with it if you could kindly break it down into its component parts!!
Caller
Mock Tudor = New Malden I am assuming
Neighbors = Koreans
Do Koreans have a Dowry system?
If you married one of them what steps are needed for the procurement of fresh dog meat?
Nice bit of footie tonight BTW.
[color=blue][size=134]Care in the community success story.[/size][/color]
-
Guess
- Deceased
- Posts: 3470
- Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2005 3:01 pm
- Location: BangSaphan. Laurasia. Sub thumb
I have just had a look back and I have not had a dose of Déjà Vu.
This has been said before.
The Sin Sod is an old Thai tradition that only seems to have been applied in certain kingdoms before Thailand existed. The areas were mainly those in the North of Thailand.
It is only applicable in a traditional Thai marriage between the families of a couple on the first marriage that would, in the vast majority of cases, have been the only marriage anyway. It is only paid from Thai men's parents to the parents of the Thai bride. I have read that it is considered some sort of compensation for the family to move away from other eastern cultures where females are considered useless and in extreme circumstances particularly in China and maybe even India female children have been dumped of even killed by their own families. Unfortunately what I read had been badly translated from Thai.
The fact now is that Thais have found it a useful ruse to, get money from a farang if their daughter marries one.
Whatever you decide, it is personal matter between you, your intended wife and her family if any money is to change hands. There is no rules or guidelines, only your own judgment. Every case is different so I do not think that this is a subject on which that any general advice can be given.
I would alway advise though not to give large sums of money to people who have had no experience with handling money or any financial expertise.
This has been said before.
The Sin Sod is an old Thai tradition that only seems to have been applied in certain kingdoms before Thailand existed. The areas were mainly those in the North of Thailand.
It is only applicable in a traditional Thai marriage between the families of a couple on the first marriage that would, in the vast majority of cases, have been the only marriage anyway. It is only paid from Thai men's parents to the parents of the Thai bride. I have read that it is considered some sort of compensation for the family to move away from other eastern cultures where females are considered useless and in extreme circumstances particularly in China and maybe even India female children have been dumped of even killed by their own families. Unfortunately what I read had been badly translated from Thai.
The fact now is that Thais have found it a useful ruse to, get money from a farang if their daughter marries one.
Whatever you decide, it is personal matter between you, your intended wife and her family if any money is to change hands. There is no rules or guidelines, only your own judgment. Every case is different so I do not think that this is a subject on which that any general advice can be given.
I would alway advise though not to give large sums of money to people who have had no experience with handling money or any financial expertise.
[color=blue][size=134]Care in the community success story.[/size][/color]
-
Wanderlust
- Legend
- Posts: 2862
- Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2004 12:27 pm
- Location: Hua Hin
Guess,
I am not going to question your historical facts on the sin sod, but I believe that in modern day Thailand it represents a combination of two things; firstly, a kind of compensation for the upbringing of the woman, and secondly, to show that the man is willing and able to give the woman the life the parents want for her. It also seems that it is often given straight back to the wife after the wedding (I have now got married twice in Thailand, once to a girl from Surin and now to a girl from an hour south of Hua Hin, and it has happened both times - maybe that is unusual but I can't be that lucky can I?). As far as the regions of Thailand where this is practised, from my knowledge it is everywhere except the South, but where that line between North and South is drawn I have no idea, and it is probably very blurred now because of migration - so it cannot be assumed that because a woman and/or her parents live in Hat Yai or Surat Thani that there will be no sin sod.
Anyway, as others have said, there is no point railing against the system and the tradition, you just have to accept that, in the main, if you want to marry a Thai girl you will have to pay a sin sod so hone your negotiating skills! This may not only apply to the amount, but also the conditions under which it is given, such as it being returned to your wife after the wedding for example. What should also be remembered is that another Thai wedding tradition is that the guests at the party give money in sealed envelopes (normally the ones they received their invites in) which quite often pays for the festivities, so don't get conned into paying for everything! As the party is traditionally held at the parents house the example given before about tarting up the house also seems fairly common, to avoid losing face, so also bear that in mind. I don't think that anyone can place a definitive amount on a particular marriage, but a farang, while he won't necessarily pay more than a Thai to marry a particular woman, is probably more likely to be asked for more, not because he has more, but because he is more 'unknown' and thus more security is needed I think. If you have known the family for years then I would make an educated guess that you would pay the same as a Thai, unless you were a complete axxxhole!
I am not going to question your historical facts on the sin sod, but I believe that in modern day Thailand it represents a combination of two things; firstly, a kind of compensation for the upbringing of the woman, and secondly, to show that the man is willing and able to give the woman the life the parents want for her. It also seems that it is often given straight back to the wife after the wedding (I have now got married twice in Thailand, once to a girl from Surin and now to a girl from an hour south of Hua Hin, and it has happened both times - maybe that is unusual but I can't be that lucky can I?). As far as the regions of Thailand where this is practised, from my knowledge it is everywhere except the South, but where that line between North and South is drawn I have no idea, and it is probably very blurred now because of migration - so it cannot be assumed that because a woman and/or her parents live in Hat Yai or Surat Thani that there will be no sin sod.
Anyway, as others have said, there is no point railing against the system and the tradition, you just have to accept that, in the main, if you want to marry a Thai girl you will have to pay a sin sod so hone your negotiating skills! This may not only apply to the amount, but also the conditions under which it is given, such as it being returned to your wife after the wedding for example. What should also be remembered is that another Thai wedding tradition is that the guests at the party give money in sealed envelopes (normally the ones they received their invites in) which quite often pays for the festivities, so don't get conned into paying for everything! As the party is traditionally held at the parents house the example given before about tarting up the house also seems fairly common, to avoid losing face, so also bear that in mind. I don't think that anyone can place a definitive amount on a particular marriage, but a farang, while he won't necessarily pay more than a Thai to marry a particular woman, is probably more likely to be asked for more, not because he has more, but because he is more 'unknown' and thus more security is needed I think. If you have known the family for years then I would make an educated guess that you would pay the same as a Thai, unless you were a complete axxxhole!
You did slightly better than me on the financials Sarge. The dowry for Mrs Trotter was a new "ice box" (i.e. fridge) for the family house up country.sargeant wrote:I have married 2 thai women did not pay a pennt not even a salung gotta py for son though bummer
Strictly, however, that is not the full picture.
Since getting married I have bought new tv's, a dvd player, a computer, a hi-fi, and small objects like new rice cookers and so on, for the family house up country. I also send money every month from the UK to ensure the grandparents are able to feed my step daughter and ensure she can still go to school. There are also small financial handouts and treats when we visit.
You may also have personal experience of the ongoing financial comitment that marriage to a Thai can mean. For a farang, the dowry, be it large or small, is often only the start.
For me this is no big deal, I am relaxed about sending cash each month as I only send what I can afford and I also know it makes Mrs Trotter happy to know that her daughter has a more comfortable life than would be the case if I did not send cash. (Although there is another angle to this also that I have not yet raised on this thread).
The luxuries that I buy for the family house up country also mean that my stays there when on holiday are a little more comfortable. For example, perhaps one item I have bought for the house that gives me the greatest pleasure on our trips to the village is a western toilet.
Trotter
Truer words have never been spoken. Each and every old Thai man and woman I've known over the age of 50 have knees the size of mellons. The Thai's will tell you 'it's old age and arthritis', don't think so, it's 50 years + of squatting and knee bending. PeteTrotter wrote: For example, perhaps one item I have bought for the house that gives me the greatest pleasure on our trips to the village is a western toilet.
Trotter i am writing exceedngly pissed it is in the quality of the wench you got for for your baht and the happines you get from the wench after that who gives a shit life is all about roundabouts im pissed its me birfday i think you are a lucky bugger same same me
All mrs sarges family are here for my birfday and my goolies could not be larger if i tried life is good
All mrs sarges family are here for my birfday and my goolies could not be larger if i tried life is good
A Greatfull Guest of Thailand
-
Guess
- Deceased
- Posts: 3470
- Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2005 3:01 pm
- Location: BangSaphan. Laurasia. Sub thumb
I missed this the first time around, hence the delay. What you say above ties up with my understanding. What I wrote was my understanding of the situation regarding second (non-virgin) weddings. It was quoted by someone else on this forum that the traditional Sin Sod only applies to the first marriage. It ties in with what I have been told by open trustworthy Thais. So in Trotter's case the Sin Sod it would be relevant. In any other situation then the whole concept is questionable.Wanderlust wrote:Guess,
I am not going to question your historical facts on the sin sod, but I believe that in modern day Thailand it represents a combination of two things; firstly, a kind of compensation for the upbringing of the woman, and secondly, to show that the man is willing and able to give the woman the life the parents want for her.
As far as the regions of Thailand where this is practised, from my knowledge it is everywhere except the South, but where that line between North and South is drawn I have no idea, and it is probably very blurred now because of migration - so it cannot be assumed that because a woman and/or her parents live in Hat Yai or Surat Thani that there will be no sin sod.
As for the North/South divide is concerned, it is a long story with many different elements. However the simple answer to your question is Chumpon and I believe that means the city rather than the modern day provincial boundary which is a fairly modern introduction in Thailand. Your comment is true regarding the ambiguity of borders and becomes more apparent as the economy grows and travel becomes more available.
There are far to many reasons to explain why Chumpon is known in Thailand as the Gateway to the South and also it is not possible to explain the cultural and political differences in a single post. A 500 page book would be more appropriate. I am sure that the same could be applied to Isan and Lan Na but to a much lesser extent. In a nutshell and arse about face way of explaining it is that the only two common factors between the South and the rest of Thailand is the loyalty to the King (even in the world of Islam) and the language. Thai is spoken by all southern natives but it is always at least the second language and sometimes the third.
Trotter's story is similar to many that I have heard regarding young Thais.
As for a farang marriage to a Thai is concerned then every case must be judged on its own merit and there appears to be no guide lines except my suggestion that you start with a very firm and sincere offer of sweet f#ck all but be prepared to negotiate a little.
[color=blue][size=134]Care in the community success story.[/size][/color]
i guess I'm a lucky man. Both parents dead and buried, rest of the family self sufficient, all got tV's mobiles, washing machines, healthy oxen, no sick relatives. Where did I go right/wrong??????
Just got the feeling something is lurking round the the corner
That's why I always sit with my back to the wall and have a man who could get me a ticket home tomorrow
Just got the feeling something is lurking round the the corner
That's why I always sit with my back to the wall and have a man who could get me a ticket home tomorrow
RICHARD OF LOXLEY
It’s none of my business what people say and think of me. I am what I am and do what I do. I expect nothing and accept everything. It makes life so much easier.
It’s none of my business what people say and think of me. I am what I am and do what I do. I expect nothing and accept everything. It makes life so much easier.
Because richard you were seen early on in your relationship as a good one woman man by her family most of the guys where the family load on are seen as butterflys and its get as much out of the SOB before he buggers of with a new woman
The falang horror stories always have the falang as pure as driven snow most times a few discreet questions or a little investigation reveals the guy asks for it, but we are not allowed to say that, the myth is now certainly bigger than the truth
Bugger the myth, i say it as i see it, and a few falangs telling their horror stories have been quite shocked at my response stunned even
back to topic i have lowered the price on brother in law to 5 baht waiting for a bite
The falang horror stories always have the falang as pure as driven snow most times a few discreet questions or a little investigation reveals the guy asks for it, but we are not allowed to say that, the myth is now certainly bigger than the truth
Bugger the myth, i say it as i see it, and a few falangs telling their horror stories have been quite shocked at my response stunned even
back to topic i have lowered the price on brother in law to 5 baht waiting for a bite
A Greatfull Guest of Thailand
