Political un-rest and rally

[cozza]

I am undecided wether this is a good move...likely to inflame things a bit.

An open court would have been good, even though most have seen much of the evidence on youtube and similar sites. Regarding the previous post and the poorer Thai's not having as much access to the internet this could be used as more propaganda or fuel for more protests depending on how you see it.

[cozza]

Thailand's red shirts and yellow shirts battle it out on Facebook
Facebook and other social networking sites are popular tools for Thailand's political yellow shirts, and to a lesser extent their red shirt opponents, in the Thai season of political turmoil. But the sites are amplifying social divisions, say some Thais.

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Asia-Pac ... n-Facebook

Interesting article there on the CSM - is technology overcoming taboo in Thailand?

Buksida,

Interesting article but I am not really surprised. I have for one reason or another joined many "Thai political" FB pages and have a famous Thai journo as a FB friend and he gives interesting updates that do not make it to the stories. An important fact though that the article has missed (or I did) was that many Thais are actually becoming more aware and involved in politics which is a massive change, from what I can see from the more "educated" Thai's a key reason is the Reds actions. Now I can hear the screams of hi-so and "elite" but some I know personally very well are actually very poor, some from Bangkok and others from Hua Hin/Petchburi/Cha Am. Before any assumptions are made, let me clarify that it is a wide variety of people/class/ethnicity.

There are many Thai's that have been left out of the Yellow vs Red shirt war, I would dare say a majority. It makes me sick reading of the Poor support Reds and Rich support Yellows, what about the poor that support the Yellows or the poor that support the Democrats? What happens now if they decide to be heard?

I guess what I am trying to say is that there is this constant talk of Pracha Tipatai (equality of people) from Red supporters in the North/NE, but what about the poor South of Bangkok, where do they fare in all this and are they supported by the Reds and Thaksin?

[buksida]

Absolutely, the whole 'elite' versus poor down trodden Issan farmers is another publicity stunt. There are thousands of equally poor farmers and fishermen in the south that don't support the reds, there are also some rich high-so or academic Thais in Bangkok that do.

It seems that anyone not in the rice farming business has now been labelled 'elite' by misinformed media outlets. I'd like to hear what Bangkok's market vendors, street traders, and shop workers say about that after recent events which have left them even poorer with income at a trickle due to shattered businesses.

[sandman67]

Well doneSpitty... nail head bonk!

I see, as predictably as the sun coming up, that the PT shills are now filing spurious court cases and police complaints in droves (again) and are insisting on another three ring circus censure debate (again)

Seems to me this is playing directly into Abbas hands. After all, there is nothing like a good old PT parliamentary March of the Clowns session of idiocy live on TV to build on a shabby violent mob riot ... that is sure to turn the horrified backlash of the mainstream Thai publc to the red riots into a tsunami of anti-PT votes.

then again, TIT

[Nereus]

Right idea, wrong country:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breakingnews ... ice-reform

Chuan urges police reform:
Former prime minister Chuan Leekpai and Democrat party's advisory chairman criticised the Thai police as ineffectual and people did not trust the police, while the military was praised for being mature and this was the main reason that no coup happened even under the extreme crisis, reported TNA.

Mr Chuan said it was normal that Prime Minister Abhisit was criticised by the opposition for deploying the military to disperse the mob, but Thai people must realise that Mr Abhisit had tried to avoid violent confrontation throughout the 2-month red shirt rally so much that he had been criticised as being too weak.

The most important issue was the law enforcement officials. If they realised their duties to the country, losses could be avoided, but if they were indifferent, anything could happen.

In the eyes of the general public, the Thai police were ineffectual in comparision with the military. "Of course, there are some good people in the police. It is the chance for the government to reform the police, but must clearly explain this to the public, must tell the truth as it will be good in long term," said Mr Chuan.

[STEVE G]

Absolutely, the whole 'elite' versus poor down trodden Issan farmers is another publicity stunt. There are thousands of equally poor farmers and fishermen in the south that don't support the reds, there are also some rich high-so or academic Thais in Bangkok that do.

It seems that anyone not in the rice farming business has now been labelled 'elite' by misinformed media outlets. I'd like to hear what Bangkok's market vendors, street traders, and shop workers say about that after recent events which have left them even poorer with income at a trickle due to shattered businesses.

I think the problems of terminology arise because people are wary of saying directly who they’re against, so you sometimes get this phrase ‘Bangkok elite’ which can then get miss-interpreted as a class or wealth issue.
One article I read came up with a phrase something like ‘Democrat-royalist-judiciary-army-palace-nexus’ to describe the same thing, but ‘Bangkok elite’ is a bit more economical on the keyboard!
I don't think anyone would deny that there is a certain group in Thailand that are getting more than their fair share of the pie.

[caller]

Hmmm. so a 'closed' Court ordered the arrest of Toxin on terrorism charges, I guess that could be seen as a tactical error in two regards.......

Anyways, whats the ultimate punishment after he's found guilty by another closed Court in his absence?

[STEVE G]

Hmmm. so a 'closed' Court ordered the arrest of Toxin on terrorism charges, I guess that could be seen as a tactical error in two regards.......

Anyways, whats the ultimate punishment after he's found guilty by another closed Court in his absence?

I don't think they can be serious about wanting him extradited as surely they must know that:

2. No one may be removed, expelled or extradited to a State where there is a serious risk that he or she would be subjected to the death penalty, torture or other inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment.
(Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union, article 19.)

He can live in London or Paris for the rest of his life now if he wants to.

[caller]

I don't think they can be serious about wanting him extradited as surely they must know that:

2. No one may be removed, expelled or extradited to a State where there is a serious risk that he or she would be subjected to the death penalty, torture or other inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment.
(Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union, article 19.)

He can live in London or Paris for the rest of his life now if he wants to.

Beat me to my punch line Steve!

To be really safe, he'd best get to the UK - he's probably on a flight right now!

Plus, and I know its risible, but hasn't Thailand just gained some sort of semi-quosi status as a nation thats recognised as valueing and upholding such rights?

[PeteC]

Just as a comment, I think an important thing we should all be aware of going forward is the attitude of 'if I can't have it, let's destroy it', as we saw in Bangkok. I don't think the majority of the Red Shirts feel or think that way, but I'm sure there is a fringe element who does. Any of us could fall victim to this mentality if people start to go on a rampage again.

Perhaps too cautious of an attitude, perhaps not. Time will tell. Personally I'm looking for changes in people's attitude and personality, people we've worked with for years in terms of hiring them for various services. If you begin to see a change in the normal manner they have interacted with you over the long term, then something is brewing in their thought process. All of this of course is just IMO. Pete

[migrant]

Just as a comment, I think an important thing we should all be aware of going forward is the attitude of 'if I can't have it, let's destroy it', as we saw in Bangkok. I don't think the majority of the Red Shirts feel or think that way, but I'm sure there is a fringe element who does. Any of us could fall victim to this mentality if people start to go on a rampage again.

Perhaps too cautious of an attitude, perhaps not. Time will tell. Personally I'm looking for changes in people's attitude and personality, people we've worked with for years in terms of hiring them for various services. If you begin to see a change in the normal manner they have interacted with you over the long term, then something is brewing in their thought process. All of this of course is just IMO. Pete

I think that attitude is pretty common when it comes to street riots. I remember as a kid in Detroit the race riots going on and the related destruction. Different motives, but it all seems to boil down to a group that is destructive.

Also similar to the Rodney King riots here in Los Angeles a while back, lots of looting and destruction.

I think there is always a fringe element that joins these riots (and I think it applys to the red shirts) for the chance to destroy and possibly loot.

[lomuamart]

Here's the "first prison interview" with Jeff Savage since his arrest on Sunday. Seems like he's suspected of being involved in other social disturbances before the BKK troubles.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/may/25/thailand

[PeteC]

Here's the "first prison interview" with Jeff Savage since his arrest on Sunday. Seems like he's suspected of being involved in other social disturbances before the BKK troubles.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/may/25/thailand

Unfortunate for all of us I'm afraid. You know how Thais like to blame others for their problems and this gives the shallow thinkers an excuse. Beyond that, if some kind soul in Parliament comes up with the idea to loosen requirements for us, as Chuan did before per Buk's post, this incident will come storming back into their minds for a long time to come.

Of course there were hundreds of foreign residents out helping clean Bangkok streets last weekend but that got little press and not a mention of any gratitude. Pete

[Takiap]

No one may be removed, expelled or extradited to a State where there is a serious risk that he or she would be subjected to the death penalty, torture or other inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment.
(Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union, article 19.)

I know this may disappoint you somewhat, but the European Union is but a small fraction of this planet. Also, if my memory serves me correctly, the UK just recently extradited someone to the US, and as we all know, the US has quite a record as far as the death penalty is concerned.

What I'm saying is, don't underestimate the Thais because we all know they have a "there's no rush" attitude. Sooner or later Mr T is going to be in the wrong place at the wrong time, and when that happens, he's going find himself back in Bangkok. Personally, I'm not so sure if that's a good thing.

The other way of looking at it could be that they simply don't want him to come back, and terrorism charges are serious enough so as to convince him to stay away.

If he were sent back here, I wouldn't be at all surprised if they handed down the death penalty, and we all know what would happen then.

For now, we'll just have to watch all these events unfold.

[Spitfire]

Must admitt that I'm a bit surprised to see Thaksin swanning around France and the UK, thought he wasn't welcome, something must have changed there that I've missed.

Also can't help thinking that he (Thaksin) has blown it twice now, firstly when he was here in power by being overly greedy and not "playing the game" with the establishment as he wanted too much, change as well as money. Secondly, during the protests when the government had almost offered them what they wanted but, again, blew it through belligerence and wanting everything, went too far.

The thing I can't help noticing here, in both instances, is that the system/establishment were prepared to "play ball" with him if only he tipped his hat slightly to them so the system could continue in some way in it's present form. This appears to be applicable more so to the first time when he was PM, I bet he'd have got away with it or at least been tollerated if he hadn't gone quite so far and threatened the system's very existance, might still be PM now if not for being consumed by avarice and vainglory.

Yes, he's a complete crook but it's the meglomaniac inside him that has destroyed everything and dictated events for him and the rest.

However, not a good reflection on the system/those in charge here either that it did and would tollerate him if he just towed the line slightly and let them continue with the status quo.



(No problem if you want to edit mods if I've sailed over the current "lines" with this one)