Political un-rest and rally

[hhfarang]

I didn't go back through this huge thread to see, so this may have been posted already, but I found this video interesting.

[Nereus]

Here's the "first prison interview" with Jeff Savage since his arrest on Sunday. Seems like he's suspected of being involved in other social disturbances before the BKK troubles.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/may/25/thailand

Here is the other one that was involved:

http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/na ... -protests/

Perth man arrested over Thai protests:

Perth man Conor David Purcell is facing up to two years in a Thai jail after he was arrested by Thai police for inciting unrest amid the bloody Red Shirt protests in Bangkok.

A spokeswoman for the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade confirmed an Australian man was charged yesterday with violating the emergency decree imposed by the Thai Government to end the two-month Red Shirt protests.

"The man's arrest followed his detention the previous day on immigration overstay charges," the spokesman said.
The West Australian understands Mr Purcell, 30, lost his passport after entering Thailand in about December last year.

Mr Purcell has already been sentenced to two months prison and a fined 3000 Thai baht (AUD$113) on the immigration overstay charges. He faces up to two years jail and a fine of 40,000 Thai baht (AUD$1500) on the charges under the emergency decree.

The ABC reported Thai authorities have accused Mr Purcell of inciting unrest by speaking from the stage of the Red Shirt protest camp on two occasions.

Television footage of Mr Purcell speaking to massive crowds has been posted on the internet and seen by The West Australian.

An Irish-born former UWA student who graduated with an arts degree in political science, friends said Mr Purcell had also served in the Australian Army Reserve.

It is believed he spent about four years teaching English in South Korea before travelling briefly to Thailand on his way home to Australia last year. He returned to Thailand in about December 2009.

Friends said he had plans to set up a charity in Thailand before falling in with the Red Shirt protesters.

Described as an "activist" by several sources, Mr Purcell has sent dozens of emails to Australian and international political and media organisations in recent weeks urging action against the Thai Government.

In the text of one speech, delivered on April 22, Mr Purcell described Thai Colonel Sansern Kaewkamnerd as a liar and a criminal. He also claims he was shot by the Thai military as they tried to break up the protests.

The DFAT spokeswoman said Mr Purcell, who has been remanded in custody, was being assisted by consular staff from the Australian Embassy in Bangkok.

"They visited him at the court hearing of the immigration charge (yesterday). They will visit him again at the remand prison as soon as they can gain access which we expect will be in the next day or two," the spokeswoman said.

[STEVE G]

No one may be removed, expelled or extradited to a State where there is a serious risk that he or she would be subjected to the death penalty, torture or other inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment.
(Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union, article 19.)

I know this may disappoint you somewhat, but the European Union is but a small fraction of this planet. Also, if my memory serves me correctly, the UK just recently extradited someone to the US, and as we all know, the US has quite a record as far as the death penalty is concerned.

What I'm saying is, don't underestimate the Thais because we all know they have a "there's no rush" attitude. Sooner or later Mr T is going to be in the wrong place at the wrong time, and when that happens, he's going find himself back in Bangkok. Personally, I'm not so sure if that's a good thing.

You can't be extradited to the US to face capital charges:

In the case of Soering v. United Kingdom, the European Court of Human Rights held that it would violate Article 3 of the European Convention on Human Rights to extradite a person to the United States from the United Kingdom in a capital case.

In the case of Thaksin, I can't help feeling that they don't really want him back because it would perhaps incite further trouble.
By bringing these charges, it makes them look like they're being serious whilst actually making it less likely that they'll actually get him.

[Takiap]

Yes Steve, that's actually what I think as well. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if his trial starts without him, and I wouldn't be surprised if he gets the death penalty. That way Thailand would be virtually guaranteed of never having him back here. Also, I don't think the UK would allow him to be too politically active while he's there.

[caller]

Also, I don't think the UK would allow him to be too politically active while he's there.

You are kidding! Check out the history of the UK and harbouring terrorists who have operated freely in the UK causing mayhem elsewhere and based on the premise, 'they won't do it here' - 9/11 and 7/7 kind of changed that view.

But in fairness, T wasn't that active when he was here before. One of his employees even posted for gardening assistants on a UK based forum, to work at one of his mansions, this one being in Weybridge, Surrey - 250 quid a week, cash in hand, if you want to know, and to be of good strong Isaan stock - the missus phoned the number or emailed to enquire (can't remeber which).

[PeteC]

Bingo! Pete

Opinion » Opinion

OUTSIDE THE BOX
A guide to the perfect Thai idiot

http://www.bangkokpost.com/opinion/opin ... thai-idiot

* Published: 26/05/2010 at 12:00 AM
* Newspaper section: News

In 1996, three Latin Americans wrote a best-selling book in Spanish which was later translated into English as Guide to the Perfect Latin American Idiot.

Their main contention is that Latin American problems are not caused by outside influences as Latin Americans generally believe. Rather, they result mainly from actions of Latin Americans themselves.

Correcting Latin American problems, therefore, must come from Latin Americans.

Ask Thais about the causes of last week's shameful event - or of any problems in Thailand for that matter - and they will readily point the finger somewhere else, never at themselves.

I am a Thai so I am part of this well-practised response. But I now believe that if we continue with this long-running charade of self-deception, Thailand is on its way to becoming a failed state shortly.

We present Thailand as the Land of Smiles full of gentle Buddhists. We regularly give alms to monks and often make donations to temples, believing that those are selfless acts for the welfare of others.

Deep down, however, we do that only because we wish to get something in return - to go to heaven or have a richer next life. It is a trade, pure and simple, nothing kind or selfless about it.

Few of us give for the sake of giving. We are basically very selfish.

Every time we go to the temple or attend a Buddhist ceremony, we duly accept and recite the Five Precepts as a guide to our daily lives, but we leave them there, as we always make promises without ever intending to keep them.

Actually, we understand little about Buddhism.

Even among the ranks of the monks, most do not know the teachings in-depth and lead their lives accordingly - all they know is how to conduct ceremonies from which they earn easy income.

This reflects something deeper - we are generally lazy and like to take short-cuts to the sabai (do-nothing) state. Lottery tickets, therefore, always sell out at premium prices; prostitution is rampant and young women readily marry foreign pensioners.

We love to talk but rarely listen. Even when we do, we often fail to hear, as we never learn to think critically.

We cannot put up with different points of view nor can we work cooperatively.

Many of the over 30,000 Buddhist temples were built next to one another because when we disagreed with one, we just built another.

That the cooperative movement has never been successful here is another indication of our inability to tolerate different points of view.

We readily forgive, so we believe, as our most common utterance is mai pen rai (it doesn't matter) when someone makes a mistake. But that is only a reflection of the culture of indifference and ready rationalisation.

We can always cite a well-known proverb, a famous poem or a sage's sharp utterance to justify everything we do.

We complain so much about corruption. But we do little about it.

Worse, we keep electing the same corrupt politicians because they have money and influence from which we hope to benefit.

Survey after survey shows that the majority of us do not mind corruption as long as we get something out of it.

One of the surveys last year showed that almost 85% of us believed that cheating was a normal business practice, making us practically a nation of thieves.

When I raised the matter in this column, I received the angriest responses from fellow Thais, using expressions so colourful that they should not be printed nor uttered within earshot of other humans.

This long-running self-deception has created so much moral deficit, to employ Joseph Stiglitz's terminology, that has put Thailand into a state of moral crisis for some time now. Some of the symptoms of this state are the economic crisis of 1997 and the protests culminating in last week's events.

Of course, we will never admit this, for we are perfect and will continue to be very angry when a foreigner utters something non-complementary about us.

But I do hope that the events of last week shock most of us into re-examining ourselves, our values, and start reducing the moral deficit as well as trying to generate some moral surplus: doing more genuinely voluntary work for the common good similar to the street cleaning carried out by Bangkokians last weekend, but on a regular basis.

Sawai Boonma has worked for more than two decades as a development economist.

[The understudy]

Exactemundo Mr. Sawai Boonma!!!

You hit the Nail in the Head!!!
about my fellow Thais.

Your's The understudy

[pharvey]

I wonder what the payment terms are..........

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... 2.1bn.html

[charlesh]

Sawai a revealing insight into the Thai psyche.
You are obviously very astute and rather brave. The Thai parochial approach to life will be an impediment for future development and mark my words will be to its detriment. With people like Takky and his family allowed to accumulate unspeakable amounts in very short time frames underscores the inequity and hypocrisy of the social values which Thailand has only been too happy to promote.
As for Purcell and Savage - lets hope they serve time (if found guilty) in LOS and not in summer camps in Oz or Pommy land. Their foolish involvement has put all foreigners at risk.

[Name Taken]

Why this guy isn't already in custody or on a plane and blacklisted is beyond me. Pete

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/local/3 ... st-settles

....."Acting government spokesman Panitan Wattanayagorn said: "A white Westerner was involved in the arson attack on CentralWorld, convincing them to set fire to it. And an Asian was also involved in the arson attacks on the banks."

Mr Panitan did not give any names but a video of a British man urging the burning and looting of the shopping mall, taken several days before it was set on fire, has been circulating on the YouTube video sharing website.

The man was identified by the British media as Jeff Savage, a resident of Pattaya. In interviews he reportedly defended his conduct but said he did not take part in the arson attack.".......

I think that YouTube video was taken by another farang living in Thailand. He probably took that video just to get another farang kicked out of Thailand and to further worsen the image and reputation of all the farangs living in Thailand.

[Name Taken]

Why this guy isn't already in custody or on a plane and blacklisted is beyond me. Pete

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/local/3 ... st-settles

....."Acting government spokesman Panitan Wattanayagorn said: "A white Westerner was involved in the arson attack on CentralWorld, convincing them to set fire to it. And an Asian was also involved in the arson attacks on the banks."

Mr Panitan did not give any names but a video of a British man urging the burning and looting of the shopping mall, taken several days before it was set on fire, has been circulating on the YouTube video sharing website.

The man was identified by the British media as Jeff Savage, a resident of Pattaya. In interviews he reportedly defended his conduct but said he did not take part in the arson attack.".......

I think that YouTube video was taken by another farang living in Thailand. He probably took that video just to get another farang kicked out of Thailand and to further worsen the image and reputation of all the farangs living in Thailand.

Not that i care though.

[Name Taken]

Full English Transcript of PM's speech at 14:00 Today

Today, at 14:00 hrs the Prime Minister addressed the nation via a televised speech. Below is the full transcript of his speech in English.

"Ladies and Gentlemen,

We’ve restored order in the capital of Bangkok and the provinces of Thailand. We’ve been able to do this with the cooperation of government officials, volunteers and, of course, the people of Thailand. We’ll continue to move swiftly to restore normalcy. And we recognize that as we move ahead, there are huge challenges ahead of us, particularly the challenge of overcoming the divisions that have occurred in this country.

Let me reassure you that the Government will meet those challenges and overcome the difficulties through the five-point reconciliation plan that I’ve previously announced. That plan is based on the principle of participation, democracy, and justice. We’ll allow the due process of law to operate and use our parliamentary democracy to resolve the problems with the participation of all groups of people. At the same time, that plan will include an independent investigation of all the events that have taken place during the protests. So you can be assured that the government has every intention of moving the country forward, restore order, make sure that our recovery is well on track, and that we’ll do so in a transparent manner.

Thank you very much.”

So to restore order - and allow the due process of law to operate - they put 5 Red leaders in the same lockup? Presumably allowing them to keep their camera phones too. Great stuff. Guaranteed to quell the masses.

[bapak]

Charlesh.... "With people like Takky and his family allowed to accumulate unspeakable amounts in very short time frames underscores the inequity and hypocrisy of the social values which Thailand has only been too happy to promote".

Yes, it unbelievable the amount that this man and his family have accummulated so much wealth in such a short period of time. Whilst I would normally not wish to visit "the sins of the father onto the children", the whole family are immoral.

[Ellycat]

So how's things in Hua Hin, guys and dolls? The Foreign and Commonwealth Office are advising against non essential travel to Bangkok. I rang my tour operator and he told me that they were offering full refunds on flights up to May 31st., so basically I have to ring back around the 15th June to see if I can get a full refund, if the advice from the FCO is the same.

My plan is to grab the full refund and then book another flight immediately as my flight has dropped in price by £75.

[Spitfire]

Well Ms Ellycat, they are probably being over dramatic about it now, usually they like to 'ham it up' etc for effect but it shouldn't be a drama now.

Hua Hin is fine, and there's no problem at the airport either. If you are just flying in and then taking a taxi to HH then I can't see any dramas. Do what is best for your pocket regarding the flight situation. Even if you want to go to BBK for a bit then it's only the curfew at night that's a drama, but it'll be over in a few days so no worries.

Enjoy