Why have music SO LOUD?

[hogus]

Oh, no worries, mate!
I never heard that someone called me to be arrogant, but even in that case I would be able to live with it!

No reason for me to start to believe on ghosts, drinking LaoKao, having my food on the floor or whatever you have in mind about a "truly" living in TH.
(By the way, in the eyes of Mrs. Hogus, which is a Thai, the eating on the floor has nothing to do with "Thai-tradition". To quote her correctly, "Well, it's ok..it's normal...even for rich people...if they have more guests than chairs and tables..."
Well, no further comments from my side to this theme!)

As I said, I'm not here for working, integration or adopting anything of the Thai-culture...especially things I don't like!
I'm a customer of Thailand as I could be a customer of many other countries, too!
Nothing more and nothing less!
So long I enjoy what TH offers to me and for my money I'll stay, and if I don't like it anymore I'll go!
Easy, isn't it?

But I don't want, that you have a sleepless night now!
One thing of Thai-custom I use, whenever I have to do with Thais! It's the "Wai", to greet them in a way that is normal in their country!
To be polite, understanding, respectful means not that I have to adopt anything to have a live here, isn't it?

[DawnHRD]

^Good post, Hogus. Especially the last part.



Richard, I'm confused. Seriously. In your very last post, you said this:

you cannot truely live in a country without adopting their culture otherwise you are always going to be labeled as an arrogant farang (alien)

How can this not include learning their language? Isn't that the first step? I've read what you & Sarge have said about it, and, as someone else whose Thai is minimal, I feel at a distinct disadvantage. I certainly don't feel that I would ever be accepted, as some of my friends who speak reasonable or fluent Thai are.
I know that the fact I don't speak much Thai is my own fault; I don't blame anyone else. I just wonder how you & Sarge can feel so completely integrated without the language abilities. I don't.

[splitlid]

sometimes, for some people, speaking fluent thai only helps confirm what the thais are thinking.

[Winkie]

Just thought I'd add a few comments to this long and rather ridiculous thread.

I think all are entitled to there own views, and if some think that you can only live in a country if you truely integrate, then that's fine.

If others feel that they don't need to integrate, that's perfectly fine too.

Each to his own, there are no rules in this. Personally I don't think its possible nor see the need for someone to totally integrate (pretend to be something that they are not). Just enjoy what you've got, if you think you want or need more, do it, no need to criticise others for different view points.

Just a final point, I beleive guests need to be invited. Yes Richard if you go to a party you are a guest, me too, I've been a guest at many parties all over the world.

A guest of Thailand sure means being 'invited' by Thailand (not by a Thai individual, as that would be the guest of that individual). I think Ambassadors, Presidents etc... are 'Guests' of Thailand, I don't think we fall quite into that category.

Hogus, I have to say, I have lived in Thailand for 8 years, and I feel very similar to you. I also have just the one home currently (its where I and my family reside), I also pay taxes, work with Thai people, mix socially, etc... I even have a Work Permit & Visa (permitting me to stay and to work). No need to do Visa runs or avoid any regulations.

I'm certainly not a guest, but I am at home. I am a farang, I am permitted to stay and work here, and I enjoy many aspects of life in Thailand, some I loathe, but tolerate. It suits me and my family to be here.

That's enough for me.

Winkie

[buksida]

Haven't posted on this thread yet which incidentally has nothing to do with what it started out about but I must say I agree wholeheartedly with the above post.

Maybe a good idea to start a new thread on culture.

[sargeant]

this post is on this thread and only a few days old
Quote myself
Dawn i speak and converse with thais 18 hours a day (i stay away from falangs in the main part) i have been doing so for 24 years fluency is not a huge problem and doesnt mean dip if you are not talking to them at all (Not a personal point as i think you probably speak to more Thais than most )

I am not a proffessor like barry and admit i use some english words in my conversations with thais but converse i do (ie i make myself understood and understand what is being spoken) Poot thai nitnoy khoa jai yut Speak little understand a lot .
Quote dawn
I've read what you & Sarge have said about it, and, as someone else whose Thai is minimal,
quote dawn
I just wonder how you & Sarge can feel so completely integrated without the language abilities.

and just how do you think i have survived living virtually solely with Thais for 24 years 10 x 365days in this town alone
or are you just presuming again

[Chas]

I have to agree with Winkie & Hogus. Well said! It is a matter of semantics really. Of course I have been the guest of individual Thai people & families over the years and much appreciated their hospitality.
"Customer" gives an interesting spin to it though.

I prefer something like "resident" or even "resident foreigner" ( friend of Thailand perhaps?)

However there is no "blending in" in my opinion . .but there IS living here peacefully and being in all things totally respectful of Thai culture and ways . ..and doing so does not mean that you are automatically "arrogant". (By "adopting their culture", do you mean that one must also become Buddhist?) Thai people I have met are unfailingly respectful of my culture as I am of theirs. (Yes, I wai in return. . .always! But never first except on those rare occasions when I meet a monk or priest or someone older than myself.

I also believe that fluency in the language, while nice to have and certainly worth working on, is not necessary for living here peacefully and respectfully, especially in a tourist town. Back in the village I would need my dictionary no doubt.

[DawnHRD]

^^ Just what do you think I am presuming, Sarge? I'm asking a genuine question based on my experiences. I do speak some Thai & understand more than I speak, but I can't hold a conversation in Thai. Yes, I am with Thai people far more than farang, you're right. Yes, I get on OK. But I always feel as if I just went that little bit further, made that little bit more effort to speak to & understand Thai people clearly, then things would be easier for them & for me.
From what you have both said, you & Richard don't seem to feel that same inadequacy & I wondered what I was missing - that's all. No agenda - just a simple question.

[sargeant]

No agenda you presume my Thai language skills are minimal and i disagree,I can hold normal conversations on normal and daily subjects and some subjects not so normal and have been doing so for an extremely long time. I have never to my knowledge stated my thai skills are poor just not as good as i would like
You are correct i could not have an intelectual discourse on the origin of species or einsteins theory of relativety purely in Thai my thai vocabulary just does not run to that nor does necessity or my interest.
My voice (equivelant to one octave lower than a buffalo farting) does not lend itself easily to the tonal inflections required to be totally fluent (hoy, hoy,hoy.)hence i speak in my comfort zone unless the conversation requires i TRY harder at which i try to learn the operative word being TRY
I do however understand a lot of Thai and unless it is at Mrs Sarge Rant speed i can follow most conversations by most thais and when i cant my verbal skills allow me to ask.
I will not presume for Richard he can answer himself he is a big boy now

When i joined my unit in germany i was put on a colloquial german course should you need anything in german appertaining to fishing (rod and line ) or car components please ask anything else i will have to get my english german dictioary out

[sargeant]

I was halfway through typing the reply to dawn there was a huge bang i went outside and a friend called me to his house a young electricion up a pole putting in a new mains cable had hit the transformer and fell landing on his head on the concrete the electical burns were horrific and i am sure he has a fractured skull so sad all for 250 baht a day

Puts my life in perspective

[DawnHRD]

^ Poor man.




Thanks for the explanation, Sarge. That's all I was asking.

[sargeant]

Just to let you know dawn he is still alive in the ICU hua hin hospital it was horrific but at least he is alive.

[Big Boy]

What is the likely outcome Sarge? The way you described it,

the electical burns were horrific

and

i am sure he has a fractured skull

did not sound too good. Is the poor chap likely to make a full recovery?

[sargeant]

BB To be honest i did not expect him to get to the hospital, as for a full recovery i would be stunned if he did not loose his left hand the initial point of contact it had burnt about an inch deep and about 4/5 inches in an oval shape into his wrist but how much deeper it went i have no idea.
It went all the way down his side chest and stomach to his groin area where i am guessing is where it came out and shorted to earth. He landed on the back of his head onto solid concrete and about a quarter of a pint of very thick viscous blood came out of his ear.
My next door neighbour is the maintenance mgr for the electrical company so i am hoping to keep in touch with what is happening.
He only knows that the boy is in ICU as he only came back from BKK this afternoon.

[DawnHRD]

Sounds dreadful. I hope he recovers.