66 days Overstay On Visa !!!

[E-Dork]

Hi All,

I've got a friend who has overstayed on his visa by the above amount. This was apparantly due to lack of funds at the time. The situation is now he would like to clear up the overstay charges and renew his visa legally. The info I offered may not be accurate:

Maximum fine is 20,000 baht regardless of days overstayed.

Now the guy is pulling his hair out and I'm asking for any info on this at all, he has a wife and kids here, been living here for near on 10 years (various visa's), and he's just hit a bit of a rut.

Will immigration at Cambodia etc. deport him for the length of overstay or happily accept the cash and wave him on??

Should he seek advice from a lawyer before going to the immigration??

Any Help grateful.

[lomuamart]

Immigration usually take a fairly lenient view about overstay and regard the person as having "turned themselves in" when they voluntarily admit their mistake at the border. As you have said, the maximum fine is 20,000 Baht in increments of 500 Baht a day up to that amount.
Is there any way your friend could fly to Cambodia (or elsewhere)? The reason I ask is because the airport will generally be more forgiving than a land crossing and the Cambodian border, especially at Aranya Prathet, is not renowned for understanding ways.
Technically, your friend could be arrested, transported to The Immigration Detention Centre in BKK and deported, but the chances of that happening are very slim - as long as he's not noticed by any official before he gets to the border. If the latter happens, he's in trouble.
Personally, I'd stay clear of Aranya Prathet and try Ranong into Burma or Pedang Besar to Malaysia. I've got no hard facts to back that up, except to say that I've overstayed on numerous occasions - up to 25 days once - and Ranong were fine with the situation. They didn't take any notice of whatever excuse I gave them. "Show us the colour of your money and everything is OK".
Your friend will end up with an overstay stamp in his passport noting the number of days and the fine paid. It won't affect his future in Thailand, but one of those stamps is worse than none and better than ten!!!!
I really don't think he'll have too much of a problem, but he's got to be ever so humble and have the 20,000 Baht available immediately.
Hope that helps.

[Guess]

The other option is to go and sound out the immigration in Hua Hin. If he doesn't want to go then phone first.

As far as I know there are no records of overstays or stamp details recorded by immigration and even visas can be difficult to trace by the authorities. That is except of course on the passport itself.

This leaves the option open to lose the passport and get a renewal from the issuing country's embassy.

I do not recommend this as I don't know what records they do keep but everybody I know who has lost a passport with visa and stamps on it that are over the 30 day have to re-apply which would indicate they cannot get access to data easily.

There are many other dodgy ways around the problem but I still reckon the best solution is to go to immigration in Hua Hin and come clean. Of course a new passport would always help with the doubt and uncertainty but whatever you do you will have to pay the 20,000 Baht to someone even if it goes in an officers back pocket.

[lomuamart]

Guess,
Sorry, I don't agree with your approach. Years ago, maybe Imm weren't up to speed on their computer system and I'm not suggesting they are yet, but.... I wouldn't chance it.
And if you go an Imm office within Thailand (as opposed to a border), you can be arrested. Border Imm view a person as having given themselves up, as I said before. "Pay the money and go on your way and come back again. Everything's in order now".
I've had it at Soi Suan Plu in BKK. Even with a doctor's letter from San Paulo in HH and a quick inspection from BKK's Imm doctor, I was on dodgy ground. I just paid the 1,900 for a 14 day extension to the already overstayed entry stamp I had (that was the 25 days overstay - only 5,000 Baht as it was 200 a day then).
Losing your passport? We've all heard that one before and so will have any Embassy. Not so easy to get another one these days I would reckon.
There are exceptions to any rule but, if it was me, I'd be heading to any border and just hope that no-one inspects the bus/car/whatever and asks me to produce my passport. Unlikely, I know, but these things have happened to visa runners from BKK/Pattaya to Aranya Prathet and from Phuket to Ranong. Just get in a local bus, blend in and pay the fine at the border.

[splitlid]

do not goto immigration office, you could be arrested for sure.
get a flight out and pay the 20,000 at the airport immigration desk only. and 20 nipple twisters for being such a naughty boy.

[redzonerocker]

this happened to a mate of mine back in april, though it was only 9 days over.
he took the airport route, was took away with his suitcase to a holding area, searched, interrogated & threatened with the detention centre.
after humbly & politely explaining his reasons for overstaying he was read the riot act, fined & sent on his way.
a bit daunting at first but the officialdom did mellow after the admission of guilt & the constant praise of their wonderful country.

how things would fare at hh immigration or the border crossings i couldn't comment on.
what i would be more wary of is, where are the detention centres at these points if things go pear shaped ?
& would you be transported to bkk for deportation afterwards, which seems the most likely scenario.

you can get a lot of different stories from people who have overstayed & they will probably all differ in procedure & the amount of the fine.
i suppose it will also depend on who is on duty & in charge on the day.

personally i would go the airport route for the simple reason that the immigration there would be more inclined to deal with you there & then.
as long as your friend prepares himself, sad face,sob story, plenty of humble apologies & a wad of cash i think he should be ok

i wish him the best of luck

[johnnyk]

It's going to be 20K baht for sure. Tell him to get used to the idea.
I would not do it at some rural crossing where the border guys can easily extort much more by putting him in a waiting room (with bars).
The fine will break down like this:
1 baht for overstay
19,999 baht for being stupid.

[faq2mfh]

Wouldn't hurt to have copies of marriage certificate, kids birth certificate and other bits of paper that ties him to Thailand. I had a similar situation years ago. It wasn't 60 days but I certainly overstayed my visa. I would follow the advise of traveling through the airport, big time. Anyway, I just kept my big mouth shut, smiled and laughed a lot. When question why I sanswered Thailand is my home where my wife and son live.

[sandman67]

I would go to Ranong as a poster above recommended and admit your mistake at the counter....cough up the dosh and its all back to normal.

Last time I was over there some guy from Phuket was paying for a 50 day overstay....seems OK to them as long as you pay up.

[moja]

A friend was recently charged 40000 baht for an overstay in Samui. The overstay was around two months and was caused by confusion with his retirement visa by immigration - he still had to pay even though it was not his fault!!

[margaretcarnes]

Redzone - re the detention centres at land border crossings. I can only speak for Ranong (and only because they have CCTV of the upstairs cell in the office!) But its a pretty grim cage. Have known Farang to be banged up in there prior - as you say - to transfer to Bangkok. But it could be days.
I would also question the method of transportation of offenders. Certainly for illegal Burmese its squashed into cattle trucks.

[Guess]

I just need some clarification here. I'm not arguing with he prognosis.

Guess,
Sorry, I don't agree with your approach. Years ago, maybe Imm weren't up to speed on their computer system and I'm not suggesting they are yet, but.... I wouldn't chance it.

If you mean the approach regarding going to immigration then maybe that is true. Up to now I have always had the benefit of of doubt in HH but from other stories I have heard, others have not. One case I knew of was a guy who had about 60 days overstay. He didn't realise until he went to Ranong and they refused to let him leave the country. They attached a note to his passport in Thai and told him to go to the visa issuing office in Bangkok the next day. He did that, paid the 20,000 Baht and got a new visa and a 90 day stamp. It wasn't a simple case though. the previous border crossing officer had issued the wrong stamp.

And if you go an Imm office within Thailand (as opposed to a border), you can be arrested. Border Imm view a person as having given themselves up, as I said before. "Pay the money and go on your way and come back again. Everything's in order now".

Yes that's the risk. I don't understand the second sentence. Are you saying that border immigration have a different view to local immigration? On the two of the three occasions that I have overstayed I got treated like a criminal and they were doing me a favour by not locking me up. The third was at Ranong and it was OK.

Losing your passport? We've all heard that one before and so will have any Embassy. Not so easy to get another one these days I would reckon.

Unless something is new, there is no automatic correlation between Thai and foreign embassies regarding passports and visas unless you are some kind of international criminal. If your passport is lost or stolen your country must replace it on application no matter how suspicious they think the story is. What's the alternative? Of course it is possible that the embassy could report you to the Thai authorities if they thought you were up to something. You will need to have already reported the loss to the police and and received a case number. I am sure passports get lost and stolen in such great numbers that it would be impossible for them to single out yours unless they were looking for it.

................ if it was me, I'd be heading to any border and just hope that no-one inspects the bus/car/whatever and asks me to produce my passport. ..................

I did say "option". Both methods have some risk. Staying put also has it's risk. As you say, being stopped on the road is unlikely but it happens.

The general consensus is that going to local immigration is more risky than going to a border so that's probably the best thing to do and like another poster has written, my gut feeling is that an airport would be the best place to go.

[redzonerocker]

Redzone - re the detention centres at land border crossings. I can only speak for Ranong (and only because they have CCTV of the upstairs cell in the office!) But its a pretty grim cage. Have known Farang to be banged up in there prior - as you say - to transfer to Bangkok. But it could be days.
I would also question the method of transportation of offenders. Certainly for illegal Burmese its squashed into cattle trucks.

that would be my persuasion to head for the airport
the best odds in my opinion & more chance that they will get the legalities done there & then & get you on the plane home, . . .hopefully

[lomuamart]

Guess,
I've heard the Imm's computer systems are much more up to date now and are being used. I can't prove that, but I wouldn't want to take the chance that they were still antiquated or being ignored.
Yes, I do think border Imm have a different view of overstay to an internal office such as HH or even BKK for that matter. If you've made the border, it's generally regarded that you're making the effort to leave Thailand and have "turned yourself in".
Over the years, I've been a naughty boy on numerous occasions (although not over the past 4 years or so). Almost all overstays have been cleared up at Ranong and I never had a problem. Most were just 1 or 2 days, but on one occasion it was 15 or so. The one time I paid at BKK was a "special case" - their words not mine. I'd been hospitalised and traveled up there on the exact date my doctor said I'd be fit to travel. The only reason I chose BKK over Ranong was because I thought there might be a slim chance that the overstay would be waived given the circumstances. I knew that Ranong didn't have the authority to do so. As it turned out, BKK wanted the dosh anyway, but I didn't have any trouble there. I've had a couple of overstays through Mae Sai. They were fairly hefty (9and 15 days, I think) and consequetive. I got the same women on both occasions and she remembered me, had a look through my passport and saw other overstays from Ranong and read me the riot act as being a regular overstayer. I didn't do it again.
Much depends on the border Imm you go to, I think, and the OP was mentioning Cambodia. Arayna Prathet is not renowned for friendliness, neither is Mae Sai. That's why I suggested Ranong or Pedang Besar.
Your probably right with the replacement passport from an Embassy, but you might only get an emergency one. In the meantime, the overstay is accumulating and the longer it is, the less pleased any Imm officer is going to be. Also, when you do exit the country, you're not going to have any visa, entry stamp or departure card. That surely will will ring alarm bells with Imm and I think that's when someone would find out if the computer system works. All they'll ask is where and when approximately did you get the visa (if you had one) and where did you enter Thailand?
Agree with your last point. Personally, I'd never to go any Imm office, other than at a border and I'd choose that one carefully. The best bet, especially on a long overstay is to exit at the airport.
Incidently, for anyone reading this thread who may now get the idea that overstaying's OK, it isn't and doing so can land you in some serious trouble.

[Guess]

Lomu,

Thanks for the clarification. I am sure that is good advice for all.

I misunderstood the "turning yourself in" bit.

I have seen computers at immigration but they have so far only been used for printing documents. It is quite likely that the application forms are entered at the end of the day in batch mode and maybe in a private office. I think we have to assume that they do have some sort of way of recording now. Better to err on the side of caution.

I have heard the same stories about Mai Sae (and Mae Sot). Also I agree that Pedang Besar (both the the rail and the road) offices are the most friendly.

As for the passport bit, I have heard of emergency passports but I think they are only issued in special cases such as an emergency. Of course someone who has made his third or fourth application could be made a special case. I have know a few people from the UK, US and Australia to lose their passports with current visas on them and in every case so far they have had to reapply for the visa.

So maybe this would be a case of computer technology working for you if Thai Imm could check up and issue a duplicate.