Crackdown on back to back tourist visas

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hhfarang
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Crackdown on back to back tourist visas

Post by hhfarang »

FYI, from another web site:

"In a crackdown on the 60-days tourist visas, several Royal Thai Embassies and Consulates has announced increased screening of tourist visa applicants. We also have several reports on the ******** Forum that this practice already has been enforced by some Embassies and Consulates.

The joint announcement reads: "As there has been a number of visa applicants having entered Thailand via tourist visa and misused it to illegally seek employment during their stay and, upon its expiry, sought to re-apply their tourist visas at the Royal Thai Embassy or the Royal Thai Consulate in neighboring countries, requests for visa renewal by such applicants are subject to rejection as their applications are not based on tourism motive, but to continue their illegal employment, which is unlawful.

This is in accordance with the Immigration Act, B.B. 2552 which stipulates that visa applicants are required to clearly express their real purpose of visiting Thailand. Should the case be found that the applicant’s real intention were concealed, the application will be rejected.

Please be informed that the intention of applicants to repeatedly depart and re-enter Thailand via tourist visa issued by the Royal Thai Embassy or the Royal Thai Consulate in neighboring countries in recent years upon its expiry, is considered as concealment of real purpose of visiting Thailand. Thus their visas applications will be rejected."

Foreigners living in Thailand are advised to obtain a Non-Immigrant visa, which can be extended up to one year by the Thai Immigration Bureau."
My brain is like an Internet browser; 12 tabs are open and 5 of them are not responding, there's a GIF playing in an endless loop,... and where is that annoying music coming from?
lomuamart
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Post by lomuamart »

Saw that earlier this morning, hence my reply to another member's question about staying here long-term.
As I've said on numerous occasions before, I can understand that Thailand dosn't want people working here illegally, but this kind of announcement, with no qualification as to what would constitute proof to an Embassy or consulate that said person wasn't working, is hardly helpful.
I know that SJ and others may disagree with me, but what's the problem with being a permanent tourist - as long as you can support yourself?
Arguably, a Non O visa is just a higher form of tourist visa - you normally can't work on one. As as a non-working person here, how would you describe yourself? A tourist married to a Thai? A retired tourist?
There are plenty of people staying here in Thailand who aren't married to a Thai, aren't 50, yet have plenty of income or savings from overseas. What do they do now?
To me, it would just make a lot more sense to issue Non Imm O visas and annual extensions if you were married to a Thai or wanted to retire and forget the 50 years old thing in the latter category. What's wrong with retiring at 35/25 as long as you've got the money?
Similarly, back-to-back tourist visas could be issued as long as evidence was presented of savings back home or here that you were drawing on to live (money here would have to be shown to have originated from abroad). Or income from abroad as evidenced by a letter from your Embassy. Basically, the same rules as apply now.
At a time when Thailand is crying its eyes out about the lack of tourists here, these kind of changes aren't going to help one bit.
Make tourist visas free until March next year, as they have. Then deny people them? Idiots.
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Post by Takiap »

Yes Lomu...............that's why I always have a grin at at many of the responses left on these forums by expats. While some may well feel secure today because they have a business, etc, etc, etc, the Thai authorities could turn around tomorrow and change the law for them as well. For example......the ministry of somtam has come to the conclusion that companies with a farang shareholder are responsible for the cost of apples going down and has therefor decided that all such companies now need 73 thai shareholders for each farang shareholder. I know this is a stupid example but let's face it, there seems to be no logical approach over here.

Anyone living here, no matter how, only has as much security as the next guy. My brother for example, having considered Thailand, has opted to retire elsewhere. Yes, he is stinking rich but not 50 yet. Sure he could have set up a company, etc but then again, why should he operate in the shadows when all he wants to do is relax and enjoy the rest of his life.

Oh well, I suppose that's why half of us live here.............it's just so ......
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Post by Name Taken »

I think this latest "crackdown" is to try and get rid of all the filipinos that don't have a work permit and are working illegally on back to back tourist visas.
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Post by PeteC »

Name Taken wrote:I think this latest "crackdown" is to try and get rid of all the filipinos that don't have a work permit and are working illegally on back to back tourist visas.
It's interesting you say that as was just commenting to someone about the large amount of classified adds in the Pattaya papers from Filipinas looking for nanny, maid, care giver work. The quantity has increased ten fold over the past year.

My daughter's IS employs many as teacher helpers as well, but hopefully the school has asked for or helped them obtain the proper working credentials. Pete :cheers:
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Post by Super Joe »

Name Taken wrote:I think this latest "crackdown" is to try and get rid of all the filipinos that don't have a work permit and are working illegally on back to back tourist visas.
Seems so, an official statement put out by one of the embassises seemed to concur that it's about trying to stop illegal workers, doesn't mention nationalitites ofcourse.
"As there has been a number of visa applicants having entered Thailand via tourist visa and misused it to illegally seek employment during their stay and, upon its expiry, sought to re-apply their tourist visas at the Royal Thai Embassy or the Royal Thai Consulate in neighboring countries, requests for visa renewal by such applicants are subject to rejection as their applications are not based on tourism motive, but to continue their illegal employment, which is unlawful"

It's impossible for the consulates to determine the applicants motives, ie: work illegally or extended tourism. The illegal workers are taking jobs from Thais, not contributing to Thailand by avoiding tax etc etc. So as per usual as few bad apples spoil it for the rest who really are just staying for tourism purposed and are contributing to Thailand by spending their money.

From what you read these illegal workers seem to be mainly from neighbouring countries carrying out manual work for below the minimum wage, rather than the relatively few Farang teachers, divermasters and whatever.
Guess the solution is to get a Non-Immigrant 'O' from back home and extend that locally.

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Post by Name Taken »

Super Joe wrote:Guess the solution is to get a Non-Immigrant 'O' from back home and extend that locally.

SJ
I don't think very many people are going to be willing to spend $3,000 - $4,000 dollars to fly halfway around the world and back to get 1 year Non-Immigrant 'O' visa.
Get Real. please
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Post by Super Joe »

Name Taken wrote:
Super Joe wrote:Guess the solution is to get a Non-Immigrant 'O' from back home and extend that locally.
SJ
I don't think very many people are going to be willing to spend $3,000 - $4,000 dollars to fly halfway around the world and back to get 1 year Non-Immigrant 'O' visa.
Get Real. please
No ofcourse they won't want to do it, but if they want to stay here for a long time and they're refused a tourist visa renewal what else can they do ?
I was suggesting it as a solution, do you know of a different solution that's more 'real' ??

SJ
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Post by lomuamart »

The difficulty is going to be how to determine if someone may be working illegally or if they just want an extended tourist visit. The only way I can think of to sort the wheat from the chaff is for people to provide financial evidence that they can support themselves during their stay. Maybe introduce this after 3 consecutive tourist visas? I'd agree that getting rid of illegal workers is what this new rule is all about.
As far as extending a Non O locally is concerned, the genuine people here on back-to-back TVs are usually the ones who don't qualify for an extension. They're not married to a Thai and are not over 50. If they were, there'd be no need to go home to get a Non O. It could be obtained in neighbouring countries and then extend here.
I agree, expensive to go home every 15 months to get a multi-entry Non O, but unless there's some change in the rules from now, that seems to be the only option for unmarried, under 50 year old long stayers - no matter how rich they may be.
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Post by Spitfire »

As mentioned earlier, agree this must be a crackdown on asian migrants and illegal immigrants, not so much westerners, certainly sounds like it from the statement quoted in SJ's post. Whenever you go to a neigbouring country there are simply loads of locals from that country at a consulate/embassy getting tourist visas but hardly look like they could rub 100 together. The Filipinos are probably big offenders here as they can't earn anything back home and the remittances they send back from everywhere amounts to a large portion of the Phillies GDP. Loa and Cambodian construction workers/live-in maids/servants too, hundreds and thousands of them that are unregistered or simply don't officially exist that are treated like slaves. Not so many foreigners working without work permits these days, some I'm sure, but nowhere near as many as 10 years ago, it's gone way down. The asian workers blend in and get away with it more easily.
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Post by sargeant »

Any chance the westerners will stop blowing hot air up their bums
we all know that the back to back tourist visa system was abused to the point it broke
now of course as per normal its the asians at fault not us guv give it a break please ladies
If anybody has enough money to stay without working he does not need to go onto back to back tourist visas
Sorry of course this will impact on the visa RUN operators and i wonder just what nationality will be hit hardest by that and what visas they are on
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Post by Super Joe »

lomuamart wrote:As far as extending a Non O locally is concerned, the genuine people here on back-to-back TVs are usually the ones who don't qualify for an extension. They're not married to a Thai and are not over 50. If they were, there'd be no need to go home to get a Non O. It could be obtained in neighbouring countries and then extend here.
I agree, expensive to go home every 15 months to get a multi-entry Non O
My post about Non-Imm 'O' was based on being able to get it extended/renewed in a neighbouring country. Has this been tightened up of late, I know people who still do runs every 15 months to Laos, Malaysia etc ??

SJ
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Post by lomuamart »

I misunderstood your post, SJ.
As far as I'm aware, the Non O visa situation hasn't been tightened up by regulation. However, to get one (either single or multi entry) in a neighbouring country, you've got to qualify for it. Married to a Thai or over 50 and looking to retire.
I'm not saying that there aren't exceptions to this, but I know of no-one that has got a non O on the basis of visiting "family and FRIENDS" as is possible from friendly consulates in your home country - ie Hull.
Also, multi-entries are becoming increasingly difficult to obtain locally. WL has reported success in KL, but he's married to a Thai. I've been to Penang in the past and only received single entries despite being married and supplying financial data from the UK. Other people have reported success in Phnom Penh and Singapore, but with 100-200K in a Thai bank account.
Sort of brings me to Sarge's post. If someone's loaded, but isn't married to a Thai or over 50, how do they get by without back-to-back TVs? Other than maybe exceptional cases, as I've mentioned, they won't get a Non O anywhere except from their home country.
I'll stand corrected on this, but that's my experience of the situation.
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Post by pitsch »

At the Thai embassy in Germany you get a Non-Imm "O" visa only, if you are married to a Thai or are over 50.

Where can you get a visa without this restrictions?
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Post by lomuamart »

pitsch wrote:At the Thai embassy in Germany you get a Non-Imm "O" visa only, if you are married to a Thai or are over 50.

Where can you get a visa without this restrictions?
As mentioned above, Hull in the UK. There are other friendly honourary consulates in the UK as well.
The key words are "honourary consulates". Embassies will go by the book and I doubt anyone would get one from London unless they qualified. Perhaps the answer is to find a honourary consulate in Germany, but I can't help you there?
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