Thai Politics

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PeteC
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Thai Politics

Post by PeteC »

This author speaks wisely. I am no fan of Thaksin but something rubs me the wrong way when I see those in power simply ignoring the problem and demonizing everything and everyone associated with the Red Shirts. If the government and PAD don't realize that the entire world now sees and understands that their core goal is to assure the elite remain elite and in power, their stupid. It's abundantly clear that they have no intention or thought to lessen the class divide here or give up the ancient ways of Sakdina.

Does one Thai really recognize another Thai walking down the street concerning what his beliefs or class may be? Probably not in most cases. They most certainly do recognize an expat non-tourist here, and one of my greatest fears is that if frustration gets too high, we're a good target to vent that frustration on. We're not Thai but we are resident here and in most cases represent a higher class of individual with more wealth than the average Yellow Shirt Thai. I don't think it's something to dismiss offhand. If things really get bad here, we could find ourselves barricaded in our houses. Food for thought. Pete :cheers:
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http://www.bangkokpost.com/opinion/opin ... eckon-with

Reds are a force to reckon with
Published: 11/02/2010 at 12:00 AM
Newspaper section: News Bangkok Post

By the admission of the acting government spokesman, the anti-government red shirts under the banner of United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD) are now prevalent in no fewer than 38 of Thailand's 76 provinces, predominantly in the populous Northeast and North.

But the government of Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva, its backers in the army and elsewhere, and the yellow-shirted People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) still do not acknowledge the claims and grievances of the red shirts.

On the one hand, they are portrayed by the current officialdom as mere financial lackeys of former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra. On the other, they are sometimes depicted as ignorant and gullible peasants, who cannot see beyond Thaksin's manipulative populism.

The catalyst for the latest round of Thailand 's brinkmanship between the reds and their opponents centres on the upcoming verdict on Thaksin's assets trial involving 76 billion baht.

Thaksin is mobilising all resources within his power to whip up red-shirted sentiment. The ringleaders of the reds have visited him time and again near and far, in Dubai and Cambodia, to receive instructions. His media offensive through Twitter and phone-ins are on full throttle.

His opponents, who hold the levers of power in Bangkok, are equally in full swing. Hardly a day goes by without official demonisation and intimidation of Thaksin and the red shirts. That the rhetoric and ominous posturing have been ratcheted up by both sides is not surprising. The reds see the verdict as the culmination of a long offensive of injustice since the Sept 19, 2006 coup. Thaksin merely symbolises their quest for social justice and their struggle for democratic rights. The opposing yellows and their allied army, government and swathes of intelligentsia see it as the final act of political decapitation short of physical demise for a usurper and a crook. But the many who believe the reds will simply sputter out and disappear when Thaksin's money supply runs dry, are gravely mistaken at the expense of all. The reds have become much more organic and spontaneous than Thaksin himself could ever have imagined when he was ousted from power.

Even a short visit to the reds' Northeast heartland, such as Ubon Ratchathani province, can provide glimpses of a full-blooded social movement with attendant small-scale fund-raising, symbols, assorted paraphernalia like caps and T-shirts, and pent-up anger and frustration. The reds of Ubon are split into seven groups, all with different approaches and methods but with the same arguments and objectives. Their verbiage entwines Thaksin, democracy and justice.

For some reds in that province, it is all about Thaksin, his populist policies, attention to the poor and downtrodden, and leadership that took Thailand competitively into the 21st century. For others, the top priority is not Thaksin but "democracy," which was subverted when post-election winning parties that should have governed were dissolved repeatedly while losing parties and turncoat factions were given the green light to rule by the men in green. For all the reds in Ubon, injustice and "double standards" are ubiquitous in officialdom. When all parties have bought votes, dissolving fewer than all for vote fraud reeks of unfairness. To them, Thaksin was corrupt just like those who came before him and who will come hereafter. They see his pro-poor policy legacy and Thailand 's modernisation for the 21st century as the difference.

Alarmingly, the reds in Ubon have set up UDD schools for education about justice. Some are militant and intransigent. But most still want a just and fair Thailand to be able to move forward in the world. As long as the reds are dismissed and denied, the fear-mongering of a "people's army" will find resonance and germination that are dangerous for Thailand's medium-term horizon. Similar stories can be recounted from Udon Thani, Si Sa Ket and a host of other rural provinces in the Northeast and North. They do not include the silent fence-sitters in the other 38 provinces who know that something does not add up about justice in Thailand but are not prepared to act.

The pro-Abhisit coalition has been effective at dissembling and marginalising opposing views. The PAD, in particular, are expert assassins of character, cowing and intimidating those who want to activate and broaden the middle ground for a way forward, into silence. If they cannot see the reds beyond Thaksin and his assets, Thailand will see much more pain and grief in store. What the government spokesman should be telling his bosses and backers is not how to suppress the reds in a three-pronged strategy from local authorities to the draconian Internal Security Act and military-run Emergency Decree, but how to listen to these reds and wean them off Thaksin.

The challenge for the government now, as it has been for Thailand's powers-that-be since coup days, is to eliminate Thaksin for his corruption and abuses of power while accommodating his red columns for their grievances, demands and expectations.

The writer is Director of the Institute of Security and International Studies, Faculty of Political Science, Chulalongkorn University.

EDIT: Ad reference for "Sakdina". http://www.huahinafterdark.com/forum/un ... ht=sakdina
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Re: Thai Politics

Post by buksida »

prcscct wrote: They most certainly do recognize an expat non-tourist here, and one of my greatest fears is that if frustration gets too high, we're a good target to vent that frustration on. We're not Thai but we are resident here and in most cases represent a higher class of individual with more wealth than the average Yellow Shirt Thai. I don't think it's something to dismiss offhand. If things really get bad here, we could find ourselves barricaded in our houses. Food for thought.
Both sides are xenophobic bordering on fascist, foreigners will be the target no matter who is in power - just look at how they treat their own neigbours, the people of Cambodia, Myanmar and Laos. If we didn't bring money to their country we'd be treated just the same.

It's probably just as well that not enough of the population are motivated enough to give a rats arse about politics (probably in the knowledge that all politicians are liars and thieves).
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Post by PeteC »

An example that may mean nothing, or something. We've had a loft of improvements done to the house since building it; larger roof overhangs, car port, exterior paint upgrade etc. We've always used the same contractor who is also the contractor in residence here building a new division. We've known the owner, supervisor and workers very well for over two years. Always friendly, helpful and performed good work without complaint and they were rewarded as such.

Last week I went for a small bike ride throughout the neighborhood with my daughter and we happened upon the supervisor and one worker we know well and I smiled and said sawadee krup. Not only didn't I get a sawadee and smile back, I got dirty looks from both of them enough to turn one to stone. They knew exactly who I was.

Went home and told the wife and she just shrugged her shoulders. She's had no run in's or arguments with any of them.

I wonder if it all had to do with these political and class structure issues, as they and the whole group of workers are red shirts without a doubt. Pete :cheers:
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Post by sandman67 »

I dont think we ex pats will be targetted for anything other than the usual smiles and scams.

Ive been to and worked in countries that that sort of thing is a constant undercurrent at times of elections and I just dont get that feeling here. When it comes it is palpable.... you can feel the anger and aggression mounting. You can see the stares, hear the mutters and sense the fact its time to button down or leave. I was in India when one of the foaming at the mouth parties decided to kick of a hate the west campaign - not nice. If you want a taste of how it feels try Zimbabwe or Gambia.

At the end of the day the Reds (and yellows) are just scruffy dumb renta-mob shills stirred up and paid for by two cowardly greedy immoral little shits who have got too big for their own good. They represent the distinct minority here...most Thais are as sick of them as we are. Now it seems the "greys" are waking up to the fact their country is being screwed by these pathetic loons and have had enough.

Hopefully the whole shebang will start to wind down after the end of Feb when (hopefully) the judges finally make a sodding decision about Takky Skinwash's get rich scheme funds and have the lot away. Combine that with arresting the tinpot coward general with the grenade launcher crew and all their stinking cowardly murdering mates, enforcing the "no politics" provisions of all the UDD leaders bail agreements and throwing them in jail where they belong, and throwing treason and insurrection charges at the lot of em. Throw the yellow leaders in jail for the airport takeover including the bullet dodger.

Personally I think the government are playing this one smart - wait and be gentle...let the mob start the kickoff (which lets face it we all know they will). Its gonna be a riot at the end of Feb, and I dont mean the new year celebrations either.

Cut off the head of the snake - the velvet glove didnt work so give em a taste of the iron fist it should contain.

I wouldnt worry too much about your builder - probably just had his latest tessabahn tea money demand in or hadnt had his blow job for brekky that day. My reaction - never use him again and next time use only locals to do the work.

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Post by Spitfire »

I wouldn't be overly conserned about it either. Yeah, many of the Thais are tired of it too but they will not act as most are too busy enriching themselves or trying to find money for X,Y and Z. Also it's interesting to observe that many Thais are fairly ambivalent, even scornful sometimes, about many national/major issues, too busy with TV soaps and family/cars/clothes/jewelry images flashing around their heads most of the times coupled with thinking about how to aquire them. So long as the economy is OK then most with just pursue the baht signs, if that goes then there could be more of a chance of unrest on a larger scale.

Ask a Thai about immigration/politics/deforestation/Burma/elephant conservation etc and you'll get a blank or confused face looking at you.

I also don't think anything will crack off too seriously as Thailand has almost got to a point where it's got too much to lose and has gotten used to it's cosy luxurious existance with all the foreign currency flowing in. Any change in this would severly impact the elite on both sides and don't think they want to wreck the good gig, just want to control it to advance their interests even further.

Agree with SM67, just rent-a-mob on both sides and I don't get any feeling that anything is amiss in that sense, regarding foreigners. Your builder might be just wearing his tiara and handbag because he's got to give more graft money to his 'overlord' or police want more tea money from him and he's thinking about who to scam to get it. Wouldn't bother with him again either.

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Post by PeteC »

Thanks for all that but we don't seem to be getting to the core issue. Regardless if this current round of red shirt activity defuses, the root causes are still not being addressed. The horse is out of the barn and it's never going to go back in this day and age. This 70% of the population who has little say in how the country is run needs to have a voice. They did for awhile with an elected government which was overthrown as it was making the power elite a bit nervous.

As has been published, 80% of the country's wealth is in the hands of only 50,000 individuals. All factories and industry continues to be established in Bangkok, Ayudhaya and the Eastern Seaboard, close to home and convenient for the moguls. Most of the workers come from the Northeast and North, splitting families for months on end.

Education gets a lot of lip service and so called improvements in fits and starts but never seems to go anywhere. My opinion again is that they don't know what to do if all of a sudden their university graduate numbers go up by 50% and suddenly so many more people are capable of critical thinking and begin to push for change. It scares the hell out of them.

I think what we have here is birth to death being orchestrated and reliant upon where and to whom you're born. Perhaps a bit simplistic example, but in reality true for centuries with little to no ambition or intention by those in power to change things or even compromise.

These combinations are explosive and won't go away once the fate of Thaksin's money is decided. Pete :cheers:
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Post by STEVE G »

As I see the situation at the moment there are no real politics in Thailand.
The people behind the scenes of the way that the country has been run for the last half a century or so find that they have to control the inevitable change in their own way and they'll do this by any power within their means, coups, the judiciary, whatever, as they have demonstrated over the last few years.
This has made a complete mockery of any political process.
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Post by caller »

prcscct wrote:Regardless if this current round of red shirt activity defuses, the root causes are still not being addressed. The horse is out of the barn and it's never going to go back in this day and age. This 70% of the population who has little say in how the country is run needs to have a voice.
I agree with you 100% Pete. The only difference between Toxin and the rest, including the current PM, is they he didn't line the pockets of the established 'establishment'. Doesn't excuse him and he became a peoples champion by accident rather than choice, and it was very tenuous at best, but it was a voice for many, previously denied. That it what the reds are clinging to and its striking a chord. Its too glib (IMHO) to say it's just rent a mob, its way deeper than that.

Will LOS wake up and smell the roses before its too late? Just as 20 years ago, a regime that many thought wouldn't voluntarily change, did? I hope so. All they have to do is give a little...
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Post by buksida »

prcscct wrote: Education gets a lot of lip service and so called improvements in fits and starts but never seems to go anywhere. My opinion again is that they don't know what to do if all of a sudden their university graduate numbers go up by 50% and suddenly so many more people are capable of critical thinking and begin to push for change. It scares the hell out of them.
That's my take on it also, neither side have done squat for education and the big family doesn't push that agenda much either. Can't have the population getting smart can we, they might grow a conscience and stop taking those brown envelopes!
As I see the situation at the moment there are no real politics in Thailand.
The people behind the scenes of the way that the country has been run for the last half a century or so find that they have to control the inevitable change in their own way and they'll do this by any power within their means, coups, the judiciary, whatever, as they have demonstrated over the last few years.
This has made a complete mockery of any political process.
That's pretty darn accurate also, there has never been a democracy here, those that have wanted power have simply taken it - albeit by different means, some use tanks and guns some use corruption, nepotism and bribery.
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Post by PeteC »

This is just priceless. Draw your own conclusions. I quote a small piece:

"While, Sompong urged the ministry to set that 70 per cent of newborn babies each year had to study vocational education and the rest 30 per cent had to study bachelor's degree or higher levels. He said this would help make it clearer to see the country's overall workers."


http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2010/02 ... 122543.php

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Post by STEVE G »

Yes, we don't want too many of the hoi polloi going and getting themselves degrees in social issues and then asking awkward questions when they should be working in factories!
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Post by Nereus »

Mindless drivel that exactly reflects the sad "Education System" existing in this country, and what it produces. There is not much hope of any constructive changes being made to the system when people like this have control of it.

And it starts with Kindergarten, where there is is not even a curriculum, or even any guide lines, set down by the Ministry of Education.
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Post by sandman67 »

sorry mate but Im failing to see your point about democracy, elections etc.

Thailand is a glowing example of how western democracy in a box just dont fit every size, and certainly doesnt work in a country where most of the population are badly educated and worse informed. They may have a parliamentary system and an elected prime minister, but that means F all when that system has NO control over the military, police, and others like immigration, who retain their own independant fiefdoms.

In the real world of western democracy the government is in charge, here it isnt. If you want our version of democracy here then Thailand needs the proverbial rotating pineapple enema. Senior officials in all the "forces" need bringing to heel, sacking, replacing, convicting - and that is NEVER going to happen.

One good reason is the quality of politician here - almost universally greedy elitist lazy ignorant indolent bigoted scum who view their job as a get rich quick scheme. If you want a blank look on a Thai ask them what "public service" "responsibility" and "integrity" mean. I feel sorry for old Abba - it must be crap being the only honest intelligent man in a room full of ignorant swine.

And before you throw the crap at education try saving a whole big bag full of crap to chuck at the media here. Journalism? I think not...no, the dissemination of rumour and unfounded gossip, cheap soundbite opinion from any dicredited source, and sod all investigation, verification, or qualification of 90% of the drivel that is punted about via crappy tabloid quality rags and equally empty TV.

And finally on democracy... why even bother?

Most Thais, when presented with the chance to vote, cant be arsed. Look at the last elections where the bars all had to close so that a precious few (about 800 or so I heard out of an electorate of about 80,000) could cast their shabby votes. Mind you, given the above, you can see their point. Another large slice sell their votes, so blissfully ignorant and short sighted that they cant see that doing so is treasonous and defeats the whole point of elections.

woohooo.... well thats my twopennethworth again. Now Im off to stick steely poisoned blades into my favorite target de jour - followers of abrahamic faiths and people who think iron age fairy tales justify their stupidity.

chook dee!

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Post by nevets »

buksida wrote:
prcscct wrote: Education gets a lot of lip service and so called improvements in fits and starts but never seems to go anywhere. My opinion again is that they don't know what to do if all of a sudden their university graduate numbers go up by 50% and suddenly so many more people are capable of critical thinking and begin to push for change. It scares the hell out of them.
That's my take on it also, neither side have done squat for education and the big family doesn't push that agenda much either. Can't have the population getting smart can we, they might grow a conscience and stop taking those brown envelopes!
As I see the situation at the moment there are no real politics in Thailand.
The people behind the scenes of the way that the country has been run for the last half a century or so find that they have to control the inevitable change in their own way and they'll do this by any power within their means, coups, the judiciary, whatever, as they have demonstrated over the last few years.
This has made a complete mockery of any political process.
That's pretty darn accurate also, there has never been a democracy here, those that have wanted power have simply taken it - albeit by different means, some use tanks and guns some use corruption, nepotism and bribery.
I totally agree with you but you can not talk about them
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Post by PeteC »

The wealth of the nation (& of politicians)
Published: 16/02/2010 at 12:00 AM
Newspaper section: News Bangkok Post

I warn you. This column will be a little about my resentment as a private citizen and a lot about money and our usually rich politicians.

What did you expect? I have just completed my tax returns.

Looking at the amount I contribute to the state, to this country, year in and year out, without any possible way of evading, avoiding, begging for clemency (or even claiming that the money is not mine!) - I cannot help but feel resentful.

I mean, where have my contributions gone?

Ordinary citizens like you and I have to continually and dutifully pay our dues to the state's coffers, but for what?

For our prestigious MPs and politicians to have more than 100,000-baht salaries to spend each month, even though they skip their responsibility of attending parliamentary sessions which are held only twice a week?

For politicians to allocate the hard-earned money of Thai individuals into pork-barrel projects from which they can skim the extra fat for themselves, their families and their servants?

Then, it occurred to me.

I haven't felt so poor till I thought about how rich our politicians are!

It also occurred to me: How can our politicians be so rich?

I mean, they have become so rich as a whole that I just take it for granted that politicians are the wealthy lot. Like, it would be very unusual to have a poor politician.

That notion alone is unusual in itself.

The difference between the wealth of our politicians and of ordinary people may be better appreciated if put into the context of our real lives. Let's say, a home loan. For most people, buying a house or a condo is a big, probably once-in-a-lifetime issue, as most projects are priced at one million baht at least, for a small studio somewhere in the suburban fringe far from the mass transit grid, and probably up to 4 or 5 million baht for a medium-end one closer to the city centre. Such people usually have to take out home mortgage loans which they will probably have to keep paying for the next 20 to 30 years. It is no exaggeration to say that many people won't pay off their home loans till retirement. In some cases, their children may have to carry on the burden. It's sad but true.

Considering that the Government Housing Bank, the largest home mortgage lender in the country, has more than one million customers, it may be safely assumed that many people in the country don't have 1 to 5 million baht to spare.

Now let's look at our politicians. As far as I can go back, Chuan Leekpai seems to be one of the least prosperous politicians to have ever declared their assets. He had about 3 million baht to his name when he became premier in November 1997. Next in line would be the health minister under the coup-installed government of Gen Surayud Chulanont, Dr Mongkhol Na Songkhla, who was worth 4.5 million baht in October 2006.

Other than these two and perhaps a few others, the amount of wealth goes not just beyond the reach of ordinary citizens but way beyond our very imagination. I will list some examples, but I certainly I am not implying that such wealth was acquired dishonestly. The point here is just to show the stark difference.

One example is Mr Boonjong Wongtrairat, deputy interior minister. When he assumed the post on Dec 21, 2009, his and his wife's assets stood at about 212 million baht.

Former deputy prime minister Suwat Liptapanlop declared 66 million baht (including a 10-million-baht Porsche) while his wife Pol Maj-Gen Poonpirom had 502 million baht in 2004.

Former deputy public health minister Anuthin Charnveerakul was on another scale entirely with ownership of 2.1 billion baht (including four boats and cars worth 83.2 million baht) while his wife Sanongnuch had 2.2 billion baht.

Even Gen Surayud Chulanont, known as a career soldier, declared assets of only25.2 million baht ("only" as reported by news media at the time) while his wife Jittaravadee reported 65.5 million baht.

I myself cannot imagine making 100 million or one billion baht in this lifetime (probably in the next as well). And I believe I am in the same boat as the majority of some 60 million Thai citizens. The question I have, therefore, is: Why our politicians are so much richer than us? Is it the case that they can't become politicians or get elected as MPs unless they get rich first, or is it vice versa? Either way, don't you think we are in a bit of a problem if our representatives or politicians are so much different from the rest of us?

Atiya Achakulwisut is Editorial Pages Editor, Bangkok Post.
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