Influencial factors on political viewpoints in Thailand

[buksida]

This is a follow on from a suggestion made here as it would be interesting to discover where we, as foreigners, derive our opinions on Thai politics.

Feel free to elaborate or add any options I have missed, the results could be interesting.

[PeteC]

I only checked one, the 'experience' option. Along with that I try to read as much as possible and talk to as many Thais as possible to form a balanced opinion. Makes no difference to me which camp they're in as they all have info to be used in forming an opinion. Not many foreigners here you can do that with as their opinions are many times derived in a non-objective manner.

I'll leave it at that and come back later if this thread turns into a platform as to what our opinions are. Pete

[cozza]

I selected 2 options that do not fit 100% IMO but were the closest.

I have very little faith in the Thai & Western media but have found a select few journo's that are unbiased and get their hands dirty. They get in amongst the Reds and ask questions and their reporting shows IMO they are not biased. One of these is Voranai from Bangkok Post.

I cannot say my experiences from living here cause I do not live here and I cannot say my business/ work colleagues, but I have many friends here.

My wife's family just wants it to finish asap, they may be leaning to the Yellow's, but I personally think that the PAD are just as childish. I have support for Abhisit as PM as he is the current PM and keeping him there until elections will keep stability. He may not be perfect but he's offer to for elections in November was the smartest thing I have heard out of all these protests from both sides.

I also have a few friends in the Thai Army/Police and have spoken to them and asked them questions about Thaksin and such and their response is pretty interesting and somewhat very simple, its a matter of money. I have heard Thaksin's anti monarchy propaganda against the poor refuting all the hard work the king has put into the country, its actually quite sad because much of it is manipulation and propaganda. The people are led to believe that Thaksin is the route to solve all their poverty problems.

The electoral process in this country is a joke. I keep hearing of the elected government this, the elected government that. My wife's uncle is a village headman (not trying to brag) but even though I do not live in Thailand, I have seen enough of this system at work. One example, a family friend received alcohol from one MP and 300 baht from another opposition, this man came over to the house claiming he voted for both MP's claiming both the alcohol and the 300 baht. IMO there is no democracy in Thailand, there is only who has the biggest, most influential backing and this happens from ALL parties, its just a fact that politics are done in Thailand this way. To those who say there is no fair justice, both Dems and PPP were charged and banned for this.

I do not favour either side but I really dislike Thaksin. He is really the basis of my views, the way he has used these people sickens me. The problems and hardships they face and he is manipulating that for his gain, for those who do not see this, why did the UDD not accept the roadmap? IMO because it left Thaksin out in the cold, he was not included. I have seen the speeches where he openly hints at coming back to rule Thailand. This is what he wants and I see this and that is what makes my views.

[sargeant]

I think everyone has a different route and a different end point when discussing Thai politics because every ones circumstances are different and in this country and outside the information is not fully available to many farangs
In my case if I did not have a 17 year son and his girl friends futures to think of I would temper my views
While on the pure political side my closest friend and I are pretty close our views on the end point are however vastly different because he has options that are just unavailable to me.
Neither of us is under any delusion that we can change anything and I know we both believe it is entirely and totally for the Thai people to sort it out their way.
But we spend much time discussing and emails trying desperately to work out what the future COULD bring to help us make the correct decisions for us to take care of our families futures and to keep them safe
I have no doubt that most members will take a view and most will differ from mine because they have differing circumstances and belief systems but I do respect that they are basically doing exactly the same thing as me and my friend.
I believe we have a duty to our families to try to understand and try to foresee what is happening politically but solely to enable us to make decisions for our family’s safety and futures
I do not believe any farang should get directly involved in Thai politics at all, those that do, are guilty of endangering my family and those members that don’t get actively involved, they also make it doubly difficult to work out what effect their actions will have on my and my families lives
I have been consistent in where I come from search Tin Shacks and Low cost housing for Thais and it is pretty obvious what has influenced me
I have ticked experience almost 30 years of it and ticked Thai partner and family which covers two partners and two families
I also take very little from the media because most of the problems cannot be said discussed or printed and a lot of what is said is untrue uninformed (western media in particular) or just plain propaganda. I therefore rely on trusted long time Thai friends for my information which is normally given in hushed whispers.
To all members whatever route belief or end point you come to I hope we and all of our families will all remain safe and these wonderful people will return the smile in the Land of Smiles

[buksida]

Interesting results and responses, I think we're all on the same page regarding motives.

My views echo those of cozza's quite closely, influences are experience living and working in Thailand and conversing with Thai colleagues and friends. I also strongly agree with this sentiment:

I think everyone has a different route and a different end point when discussing Thai politics because every ones circumstances are different

Some observations:
The "experience living here" option with almost 50% indicates that most of us with opinions are based in Thailand permanently.

I'm surprised that the "Politics in my own country" option got so few responses considering how often the term "democracy" (a system that Thailand has never had) is bandied about.

Also surprising that nobody is considering leaving Thailand, maybe that will change if the lives of our families here are in jeopardy or those with businesses can no longer generate an income.

The "Thai partner influences" option was also quite predictable though I expected it to be higher.

Maybe there are more votes to come in so we'll see how it pans out.

[richard]

My views are purely based on my experiences living here. Even then they must be limited as I only know the Hua Hin middle class and the rural poor in Isaan. I have never worked in Thailand so cannot reflect on how that factor influences thinking

Good thread and one that really makes you think

[lindosfan1]

I cannot vote as I do not fit into any of the categories. I left Thailand with my Thai wife, we now live on a small Greek island, everybody is friendly, the front door has been left open while we were out, no problem miminal crime here. It feels safe to walk anywhere at night. The cost of living is a lot higher but this is within our limits. No visa runs and problems, If I want to work I can and have set up my own business.
Why did we leave, I was not able to work or do anything not that I needed to but I enjoy running my own business, primarily the reason we left was security, I forecast trouble 2 years ago, although my reason fort he troubles has not occurred yet,but IMO it will, not allowed to mention why on here.
Do I miss Thailand yes it is a lovely country but the corruption at the highest to lowest level is alarming. Will I come back, yes for visits to live no. These were our choices and we decided to come here because of safety and the people here are friendlier to us than in Thailand. For those of you that are in Thailand and stay there I hope everything goes well. very interesting thread

[ozuncle]

I voted for two, although if I was allowed three I would have included number 11 regarding foreigner should not have an opinion.

No. 2. I am concerned because we have made a decision to spend a lot of our retirement in Thailand. A situation such as is happening in Bangkok now would not make any difference, however if things continue and get worse we could change our minds.

No.5. My brother in law (and a good mate) is very pro red and has been a supporter of Thaksin for years.
Whilst he would never become involved in stupid violence he is passionate about the red cause.
Years ago I was taken aback because he refused to buy me a Bangkok Post when he went shopping. "Because they are anti Thaksin".
He currently direct debits 200 bht per month to assist the cause.
I might add that he has a good job in BKK , owns his modest house and owns an investment property so he is not one of the downtrodden poor.

It is pointless me taking sides and getting involved in arguments as I can not vote.

I hope things calm down soon.

[ozuncle]

Sorry,
It looks like In voted for 5 and 11 instead of 2 and 5.
Can anyone fix?

[caller]

None of the categories really fit the bill for me. My wife will begrudgingly admit to preferring the reds, but won't discuss it, whist at the same time being a devotee of the King. She has openly said she doesn't like my views!

Most of the little I know is from seeing with my own eyes the disparity in wealth and living conditions, especially between the area just north of Korat, so not real Isaan, where my wife comes from and pretty well everywhere else in my limited travels. Then from some reading, as I wanted to learn more, firstly the books of Pira Sudham, which I regard as very educational and still relevant and then others, leading up to the updated version of the book on Thaksin (which I got from Bookazine in Hua Hin) that I annoyingly left in Bang Saphan. But I admit its hardly a library full.

Nor are my views influenced by UK politics, but they are definitely influenced by my upbringing and that a sense of fairness should prevail. I don't care in what shape or form that exists, as long as it's there, which may be naive? But Thailand is following the route of many developing nations as the deliberately poorer educated, but not stupid, and just those that are just poor, learn more about the reality and their lot in the grand scheme of things. The world has opened up, those in my wife's village have traveled to Europe and the middle east to work, yet here in Thailand they are largely still constrained by the pittance they are paid for their rice. Bkk is now occupied by the sons and daughters of the poor from wherever and the disparity and obvious unfairness is right in their face.

Nor do I share the views of those that blindly praise those that we cannot mention and I believe that's as far as I can go on that.

Censorship in this country is there for a reason and its not for the benefit of the masses.

On saying all the above, clearly the 'protest movements' are very factionalised which is evident by what has been happening in Bkk and its pretty obvious they must be getting their money from somewhere! But I certainly don't see the majority as some clueless muppets as some believe.

The trick, if possible, is trying to separate those that are genuine from those that just want to maintain the status quo, but this time, with them forming the elite. One of the things that struck me when reading about Thaksin, that I wasn't aware of and the sources are well researched and documented, is that before being elected the first time, he adopted the 'policies' to help the rural poor as a result of being contacted by what I recall were described as protest leaders from the 70's, so a lot of the ideas that formed his first manifesto weren't his at all, he just saw it as a vote winner and the rest is history.

I think a lot of this is about the succession and I suspect there is even more jostling going on at the 'top' of society that we don't ever hear of, apart from obvious splits within and between the army and police.

Obviously, I'm hoping for a peaceful resolution and future for Thailand as I hope to make it my home sooner rather than later, but that can only happen, if those with everything, cede something to those who have next to nothing and nothing to lose.

[Spitfire]

I suppose, for me, it's experiences and how it affects my wife and I. The political instability bothers me in the long term but it's nothing new, it's mostly always just contained to certain areas. I sometimes speculate to myself about what would happen if the 'Reds' get their way, win the election and find a way to get Thaksin back into Thailand etc, especially with the frailty of....well....you know. What the deal will be for foreigners that live and work here under that senario, who knows? Always bothers me the speed at which the goal posts can move here.

[MrPlum]

"The word 'politics' is derived from the word 'poly', meaning 'many', and the word 'ticks', meaning 'blood sucking parasites'."

Why would the politics in Thailand NOT be any of my business? If you are in business, tourism or property you are certainly being affected. No people=no customers=no income!

There's nothing wrong with having a point of view.

[lindosfan1]

The full definition of mr plums post from answer bag is

'Poly' meaning many and 'ticks' meaning blood-sucking parasites.


Nah, just kidding. 'Polis' is from the Greek meaning city or state, 'politikos' describes things concerning state or city affairs. In Latin, this was 'politicus' and in French 'politique'. Thus it became 'politics' in the English language

Back to topic many interesting views

[PeteC]

One item I want to add to this. Above I mentioned I get a lot of input from Thai people. Most of the Thais who live in my development I call middle class. That's probably my western perception as here they would probably be called upper middle class or lower upper class. They're military officers (some senior), large business owners, doctors etc.

When talking to them they not only don't have any understanding or concern of what the Red Shirts want in terms of equity in the country, they don't even like to acknowledge that they exist. None of them are active Yellow Shirts to my knowledge but they certainly talk like they are. It appears their upbringing was such that they simply ignore these people. They're also raising their children in the same way. Any argument from me about equality and fairness falls on deaf ears and sometimes actually gets an angry response.

I'm only dealing with about a dozen families but if their attitude is endemic to the general population at that class level and above, we ain't seen nothing yet folks. We may have war for a decade. Something has to give, somewhere. Pete

[Spitfire]

I read this again Pete and you're right, these people don't acknowlege their existance other than in the capacity of slaves, and here within the problem lies. The types you mention gain their positions through privilage and corruption, police or army have to buy their promotions, I know one that sold his house to raise the million baht he had to pay his senior officer to be promoted to a major. The hope I see is that a genuine Thai middle class is slowly emerging, like your Thai that earns 20-30k a month and it's developing henceforth with, probably with the contempt of your neighbours. Anyone who thinks any of the class systems, past or present, in the west are bad then they're nothing compared to the ones that exist in places like here, even today. Problem is that education is more possible and awareness of their plot/situation is getting better and better all the time through the media. As you say, something will eventually have to be ceded to them.