Lung cancer - quick and ruthless

[Takiap]

Hi all.

I know this is a morbid topic, but I am still trying to come to terms with the loss of a Thai friend that last week due to lung cancer. Him and his wife were the owners of my local Mom and Pop shop and over the years, we have become quite good friends. She (64) was 16 years older than him (48) and has diabetes which requires two injections per day. He on the other hand was relatively fit. A non smoker who ate a regular Thai diet, very rarely drank, and even use to go jogging once a week.


About three months ago he developed a cough which certainly could even compete with my smokers cough. His chest was also very congested, and since I was also all blocked up at the time, we still joked about who will be dead first. Anyway, he went to the doctor and was given the usual carrier bag full of medication and told to go back in two weeks. At this point, I bought some antibiotics from the local pharmacy, and within a few day, my chest infection had cleared up. When my friend went back to see his doctor there wasn't much improvement, so he was told he had to go to hospital for further tests, and to drain the fluid off his lungs.


I'm not sure if they discovered the cancer during that visit or not, but I assume they did because when he returned, he told me his chest problems weren't the same as mine. About a month later and he was half his original size, and he'd shaved his head. While he never openly told me it was cancer, it was pretty obvious, especially since he now had no hair due the hair loss caused by chemotherapy. At that point, he was still able to drive, and was still able to appear happy and content. The week before last, I saw him for the last time drive away in his car. Four days later he was dead.


Now, I can't help but wonder if he might not have lasted a little longer if he had gone without chemotherapy. Perhaps Dr Mike can comment on this? Is lung cancer usually such a quick killer?

I'm sure Mr P will have something to say. However, if you do comment Mr P, please keep in mind that this was a friend of mine and his death upset me a lot more than I had expected it to.


RIP Adjarn

[jingjoe]

very sad news,my only input is i think diabetes has a lot to do with the breakdown of the body,my dad was relatively healthy apart from diabetes which he didn't treat himself properly for.He died at 52 from heart failure,non smoker/drinker.
Same thing happened to another friend of mine,all those out there with diabetes please stick rigidly to your diets and insulin injections.
I would also like to add,as men we all think we are bullet proof,we need to get regular check ups,best to find any problems early and fix it, than wait till its too late.
Most of us worked hard all our lives, and now are retired and have a great lifestyle here in thailand. lets make all those working hours worthwhile and enjoy many more

[blue05]

My dad was diagnosed in the August and thw doctors said he would be dead by christmas, he dies on boxing day. So pretty accurate.

However I too have my doubts on the chemo, pretty sure that kills half the patients

[Takiap]

jingjoe, the guy in question never had diabetes. It's his wife that has it. The thing about going for checkups is that they're unlikely to find lung cancer if you don't have any symptoms in the first place.


My uncertainty about chemo comes from comparing my Dad's death to my friend who died last week. My Dad was diagnosed with throat cancer, and was told that there was no hope because the cancer had already spread, and was at a very advanced stage. They said they could operate and prescribe chemo, but it would only buy him a few months at the most. He was also told that without any treatment, he had three to six months left. My Dad was quite a realist and had no problem with the idea that he was near his end. Because of his attitude, he refused any and all medical help, apart from morphine based pain medication. Ironically, he only died more or less two years later.

[Bernard]

Takiap

My condolences to you and to the family of your deceased friend. My wife died of cancer 18 months ago and it wasn't pleasant for her at all. It can however be destroying for those left behind to grieve as well so my feelings are with the family even though I don't know them.

[MrPlum]

I'm sure Mr P will have something to say. However, if you do comment Mr P, please keep in mind that this was a friend of mine and his death upset me a lot more than I had expected it to.

Nothing to say at all. Very sad.

[sargeant]

My deepest condolences Takiap for your loss
As members will know i lost my sister Missy to lung cancer Aug to Mar very quick
She asked the Doc for another christmas and she got it but he told her straight of the bat the chemo could only give her months and only then if lucky. He also said lung cancer is the hardest one to beat and the most aggressive

[Jim]

Its a very sad story and I'm very sorry to read it.

I remember several years ago one of my Swiss golfing chums told me how many oncologists with cancer opt for chemotherapy...I cant remember exactly what he said but it was very low, something around 10%.

[Vital Spark]

I’ve met various people in my life who have had cancer and are still going strong, and others who unfortunately died. There are various kinds of cancer, and, depending on the location of whatever variety it is, can be disposed of and cured or keeps nibbling away until the person dies.

My ex. mother-in-law contracted cancer of the ovaries 28 years ago. She was a bit of drama queen and told everyone she was going to die. She didn’t have chemo, but took a pill instead - she’s still going strong, and there’s no sign of cancer.

My father was diagnosed with lung cancer at the end of April last year. Within six weeks he was dead. It was ‘single-cell’ cancer and was racing around his body at an alarming rate. He didn’t receive chemotherapy, because it would have been ineffective.

My sister, on the other hand, at the young age of 51 was diagnosed with cancer of the ovaries. She had the ovaries (along with the nasties) removed, and received chemotherapy. When I saw her in 2010 she was a picture of health, and getting her life back on track. Eight months later she became ill again, because the nasties had re-emerged. She had more chemotherapy, and when I met up with her again (at my Dad’s funeral in 2011) she was looking great. Six months later she died.

I don’t think that we can generalise about cancer. It’s a single, two-syllable word for a very complex disease.

VS

[lagojardin]

My mother died at the ripe old age of 59 of lung cancer (never lived to draw her pension). A tad self inflicted I must add, she was a smoker all her life. Its an awfull, rampant disease that changes and kills people within weeks.
She died a shriveled shadow of the healthy lady she once was and it was not pleasant to watch. BUT, it left me with the feeling that the poison injection that goes by the name of chemotherapy did nothing to ease the symptoms... One day I think Chemotherapy will be looked on the same way as thalidomide and people will look back in disbelief that we allowed this treatment.

[J.J.B.]

Takiap, condolences to you and Adjarn's family for the tragic loss of a man still in the prime of life.

The sad fact is that there is no 'one size fits all' in cancer and while we talk about cancer being derived from the organ of origin - "kidney cancer"; "bowel cancer" or "breast cancer" - current research is showing us that cancer is caused by genetic errors that can occur almost anywhere. What this means is that a form of cancer affecting the stomach in one person could be similar to a form of cancer affecting the breast in someone else; the difficulty being that it's just really hard to tell.

Last year, Steve Jobs died of a very rare cancer known as a 'pNET', or 'pancreatic neuroendocrine tumour' that can often be slow growing such that the average time before accurate diagnosis is around seven years, frequenlty when the cancer has caused other damage and is no longer effectively treatable. He had the money and the contacts to allow for the complete genetic mapping of his cancer, which in turn enabled his doctors to treat him with the most appropriate medicine available . Mapping cancer is an expensive business, however, and outside the scope of most of us, plus it further relies on having a relevant therapy available to treat the particular type of cancer once it is eventually identified.

Unless you have a genetic breakdown of the particular cancer, it's almost impossible to know how to accurately treat it. The idea of chemotherapy - as with radiotherapy - is to kill the affected cancer cells and hopefully not kill too many of the surrounding healthy cells but that, too, is very difficult. I'm not sure whether the statement that chemotherapy will one day be likened to thalidomide is entirely accurate since chemotherapy can be very successful, particularly in the early stages of cancer (or those detected early enough) and before it has had the chance to spread but a huge amount depends on the type of cancer being treated. There are various forms of lung cancer and perhaps almost a limitless number of genetic variants but it would appear that unfortunately Adjarn had a very aggressive type.

Your own comment about comparing similar symptoms - both of you had a cough - also highlights how difficult it is for doctors to diagnose cancer without running the risk of conducting expensive, inaccurate and unecessary tests on people or additionally scaring everyone with a cough into thinking that they could have lung cancer. It is certainly not an accurate science but I promise you that some of the best brains in the world are working on it and tremendous investment is being made in the search for better, kinder treatments, designed to improve the quality of life for patients and their families in addition to eventually finding a path to a cure.

Mindset also plays an important role in the treatment of cancer but not necessarily in terms of a cure, rather how patients come to terms with their life and what they have achieved. I mentioned end-of-life care in a separate thread but it is worthy of reflection that many people who accept their prognosis and spend their time consolidating their achievements and managing their affairs, as opposed to pursuing aggressive therapies and forlorn hope, will often live longer, be in less pain and generally be happier. There is no right or wrong way to end one's days and it's a matter - I hope - of personal choice and acceptance. I doubt very much that chemotherapy quickened Adjarn's passing and also believe that his doctors would have thought it was the best they could do to give him more time with his friends and family. Ultimately, however, we are all living proof that nothing lasts forever.

RIP Adjarn.

[lagojardin]

Takiap, condolences to you and Adjarn's family for the tragic loss of a man still in the prime of life.

The sad fact is that there is no 'one size fits all' in cancer and while we talk about cancer being derived from the organ of origin - "kidney cancer"; "bowel cancer" or "breast cancer" - current research is showing us that cancer is caused by genetic errors that can occur almost anywhere. What this means is that a form of cancer affecting the stomach in one person could be similar to a form of cancer affecting the breast in someone else; the difficulty being that it's just really hard to tell.

Last year, Steve Jobs died of a very rare cancer known as a 'pNET', or 'pancreatic neuroendocrine tumour' that can often be slow growing such that the average time before accurate diagnosis is around seven years, frequenlty when the cancer has caused other damage and is no longer effectively treatable. He had the money and the contacts to allow for the complete genetic mapping of his cancer, which in turn enabled his doctors to treat him with the most appropriate medicine available . Mapping cancer is an expensive business, however, and outside the scope of most of us, plus it further relies on having a relevant therapy available to treat the particular type of cancer once it is eventually identified.

Unless you have a genetic breakdown of the particular cancer, it's almost impossible to know how to accurately treat it. The idea of chemotherapy - as with radiotherapy - is to kill the affected cancer cells and hopefully not kill too many of the surrounding healthy cells but that, too, is very difficult. I'm not sure whether the statement that chemotherapy will one day be likened to thalidomide is entirely accurate since chemotherapy can be very successful, particularly in the early stages of cancer (or those detected early enough) and before it has had the chance to spread but a huge amount depends on the type of cancer being treated. There are various forms of lung cancer and perhaps almost a limitless number of genetic variants but it would appear that unfortunately Adjarn had a very aggressive type.

Your own comment about comparing similar symptoms - both of you had a cough - also highlights how difficult it is for doctors to diagnose cancer without running the risk of conducting expensive, inaccurate and unecessary tests on people or additionally scaring everyone with a cough into thinking that they could have lung cancer. It is certainly not an accurate science but I promise you that some of the best brains in the world are working on it and tremendous investment is being made in the search for better, kinder treatments, designed to improve the quality of life for patients and their families in addition to eventually finding a path to a cure.

Mindset also plays an important role in the treatment of cancer but not necessarily in terms of a cure, rather how patients come to terms with their life and what they have achieved. I mentioned end-of-life care in a separate thread but it is worthy of reflection that many people who accept their prognosis and spend their time consolidating their achievements and managing their affairs, as opposed to pursuing aggressive therapies and forlorn hope, will often live longer, be in less pain and generally be happier. There is no right or wrong way to end one's days and it's a matter - I hope - of personal choice and acceptance. I doubt very much that chemotherapy quickened Adjarn's passing and also believe that his doctors would have thought it was the best they could do to give him more time with his friends and family. Ultimately, however, we are all living proof that nothing lasts forever.

RIP Adjarn.

Very eloquently put JJB - Enjoyed reading that !!

[Amarita]

My mother was diagnosed with a small-celled lung cancer last year. We were told that she would die within 2 weeks without treatment or could live 8 months with chemo. She choose the treatment. Of course she did. She had some good and some horrible months before she died last October -mostly painful. Difficult to know what you would do in this situation. But I agree - i don't think the chemo gave her any good life quality this last months.