pool pump breake down

[hurm]

Hi
After 3 years my pool pump (astral saltwater system) broke down and deer pool says a new pump is 22.000!
In Europe a pump is between 100 and 350 euro. My pool is very small, 6x3x1,6 so about 2900m3.
Any suggestions?

hurm

[johnnyk]

A good pump is not cheap. Dear is my pool guy and he replaced my crap Chinese pump with a U.S. made Hayward @22,000. No regrets from me. Euro price does not matter you are in Thailand, unless you want to lug the thing on the plane. A 100 euro pump is a waste of money IMO.

[PeteC]

A good pump is not cheap. Dear is my pool guy and he replaced my crap Chinese pump with a U.S. made Hayward @22,000. No regrets from me. Euro price does not matter you are in Thailand, unless you want to lug the thing on the plane. A 100 euro pump is a waste of money IMO.

What HP is that John? I have a Hayward 2HP which was about 28. The OP with that small pool only needs a 1HP as I don't think they make them lower than that? HP is not relevant to cost, i.e., 2HP 28, 1HP 14 is not correct IMO.

You're dead right about some crap pumps. I originally had one from Spain, named Granada I think. Sounded like a 747 and seized up after a few months....junk....and that's what you'll get with a pool new build if you don't ask and get involved with what's standard in the package. Pete

[johnnyk]

Pete, cant tell you right now coz I'm in Canada. My Chinese pump lasted a bit more than 3 years and had 2 repairs before it crapped out again and I wasn't going to throw more $ at it. The Hayward is more powerful and uses more juice but it circulates a lot more water. Not cheap but is made in the US and America can still make hq goods.
You're right that half the power does not equal half price. Labour is the main cost and its the same whatever the pump size is.

[Mrock]

Is Dear the pool repair guy?
I would sure like another opinion on my pump and filter set up.
Ed

[johnnyk]

Is Dear the pool repair guy?
I would sure like another opinion on my pump and filter set up.
Ed

He has a pool service co. He can install and repair pumps too. Nice guy.

[hurm]

Thank you all. My pump was a decent Australian brand. Astra pool system. Dear said he could repair it which he did. No complains so far. If it breaks down again I will consider the hp

[Paderborn]

Hi I have had new two pool pumps in the last 6 months after more than 5 years use from the origional pumps installed, when we moved here in 2007..
The new ones (one 3 hp & one 2 HP) were bought and installed by Poolrite... shop is south over the fly over, cost approx 12,000 & 13,000 baht with discount for each.
The make is Boss premium pool equipment...not sure where they are made but they are doing a fine job so far.
Cheers Paderborn

[bonnielass]

Within the past 4 weeks, both of my pool pumps have broken down. (Both less than 3 years old)

The main pump used for water filtration and lights broke first, so the pool guy swapped the Jacuzzi jet pump with the broken one until a new one could be found. We have rarely used the Jacuzzi feature.

The first pump has been replaced and now the Jacuzzi pump is on the blink.

Haven't got much of a clue, but I am wondering if swapping them over has caused the second pump to blow.

Apart from the standard twice weekly cleaning of leaves, algae and back washing of filters offered by our maintenance company - is there any other type of maintenance required to keep the pumps in good working order?

Any advice from you savvy Hua Hinners appreciated.

Cheers


BL

[PeteC]

Now that they're broken it's important to find out why. Your repair shop should be able to tell you. Perhaps electrical in that your set up is not the best concerning circuit breakers and protection against power surges. The shop should be able to find out if windings, bearings or what?

Another is pump room ventilation. This time of year those rooms get blistering hot. I think Nereus runs a floor fan in his to cool things down. Pete

[c.g]

Now that they're broken it's important to find out why. Your repair shop should be able to tell you. Perhaps electrical in that your set up is not the best concerning circuit breakers and protection against power surges. The shop should be able to find out if windings, bearings or what?

Another is pump room ventilation. This time of year those rooms get blistering hot. I think Nereus runs a floor fan in his to cool things down. Pete

Pete is correct in saying the biggest problem with pool pumps here in Thailand is normally the electric set ups brown outs and power spikes cause problems with the pump motors and cap starts, the other big problem is the heat in the pump rooms, most pump rooms are so small and crammed full of equipment the temp and humidity destroys the equipment, most equipment will have a max temp rating for operation in the installation manual and 90% of the time the pump room temp will exceed that, proper ventilation is needed for the pump rooms here, it would be ideal to just put the equipment against the boundry wall with a small roof/cover over and no walls most equipment is designed to be installed outside under cover.

general maintenance is needed on pumps normally the 1st thing that will need changing is the mechanical seal, you will notice a small leak between the pump body and motor if this is left for too long then you will also need to change the impeller and defuser, the mac seal will generally last around 2-3 years depending on running times, apart from this the only thing that needs to be change is the orings on the unions, if you have proper surge protect for the pump and the correct environment the motor will last 10 years no problem and longer.

one other problem for pumps is running dry, this can occur in a few ways

leafs and derbies in the skimmer box/pump basket reducing flow
faulty check valve either water returning to the pool after shut down and the pump starting up dry everytime and having to self prime or check valves being blocked and reducing flow
water level being to low in the pool

when the pump runs dry the impeller spins at high revs and creates high temps if there is no/low water in the pump the heat created by friction on the plastic will melt the impeller and water can leak back into the pump motor which will fry the pump and cause high rebuild cost or need for new pump.

The big difference in pool pump quality is the materials used in the pump higher cost pumps should be using better quality plastic which will melt at higher temps, most salt water units have a never run dry program which will sense low flow through the cell and turn the pump off a better quality pump will last longer in these situations however they will fail after so many times.

Platinum pools

[Nereus]

There are many reasons why a pool pump, and more particularly, the electric motor will fail. As I have posted previously, a lot of the motors used are not designed for tropical use. Hayward use a cheap open frame motor that is rated as "drip proof", at least with their older units. For tropical use the motor frame should be "T.E.F.C., which means "total enclosed fan cooled".

The first thing that will start to happen in a high humidity environment is that the frame will visually start to corrode. It may just appear to be surface corrosion, but in fact the internal surfaces will also be corroded, which can eventually cause the windings to short to ground, or "burn out" in some cases. As mentioned I have added an industrial type fan that runs with the pump, which keeps both the motor and pump room cool and dry.

The next most common fault is bearing wear. Pete has just been through this, and has posted the approximate hours his pump has run. But bearings rarely fail overnight, and a gradual increase in noise coming from the pump usually indicates bearing wear and they should be replaced long before they fail and take out the windings. It is not really practical to put a definite time on hours or when to replace the bearings, as there are many variables, but if quality bearings are used 3 to 4 years should be a minimum life. Bearings are not expensive, and the labour costs here are minimal.

A point about the pump size. The output of the pump, in gallons per minute, or whatever unit is your god, has to be LESS than the rated flow capacity of the filter unit. A certain calculated pump output will require a calculated hp / kw to drive it, but again there are many variables, and some of them are difficult to calculate such as the total "friction head" the pump has to "push" against. So the complete system needs to be evaluated before deciding on a pump size. To maintain a clean water system it is generally considered that the total volume of water be circulated through the filter system twice per 24 hours. This base figure should be adjusted to suit the type of filter, the environment, the amount of use the pool is getting, the capacity of the filter system compared to the volume of water, etc.

From what I have seen in Thailand the "more is better" calculation seems to prevail!

[Nereus]

Haven't got much of a clue, but I am wondering if swapping them over has caused the second pump to blow.

It could depend on whether or not both pumps are of the same type and have the same rating in output. Some Spa pumps are bigger and some are the same size. Without knowing just what has failed on your pumps it is difficult to say. (refer to above post concerning flow rates.)

You have also mentioned that you do not use the Spa very often. An electric motor that is left sitting without regular use will deteriorate rapidly. The windings and insulation can and will absorb moisture, the bearings will "gall" from sitting in the one position due to vibration from the other running pump, the grease in the bearings can harden and lead to bearing failure. It is good practice to run the Spa pump for at least a few minutes about once a week. This practice not only helps the motor, but also moves stagnant water out of the system.

[Nereus]

Platinum pools

I take it that you are the same Platinum Pools that make promises and then not bother to follow them up? The same Platinum Pools that operate out of a building that is about twice the room temperature of any pump room? The same Platinum Pools that if a customer is silly enough to drive all the way from the other end of town on advice from you, then finds one of your staff fast asleep on the (air conditioned) office desk, and the other one unable to answer simple questions?

And then you come on here blabbing about things you obviously know little about!

.........................the biggest problem with pool pumps here in Thailand is normally the electric set ups brown outs and power spikes cause problems with the pump motors and cap starts,

Very little of the pump problems are caused by brown outs and spikes. an AC motor is very forgiving of voltage fluctuations, and the "cap" that you refer to is only in the starting cycle for less that a second. What DOES get damaged by spikes is the electronics in the chlorinator!

..............most equipment will have a max temp rating for operation in the installation manual

The temperature rating on the pump motor refers to the "class" rating of the insulation. It is also an allowable temperature rise above ambient, and is unlikely to be exceeded even in this climate.

.............on pumps normally the 1st thing that will need changing is the mechanical seal,

If the seal is the first thing to give trouble then it is either a poor quality seal, OR it has been fitted incorrectly by some ham fisted "technician" that does not know what he is doing.

..............if this is left for too long then you will also need to change the impeller and defuser (a what?)

Why would that be? Because it was told to you by somebody that also does mot have a clue how a centrifugal pump works?

....................the mac seal

What is this exactly? Part of an Apple computer? The pumps use what is called a "mechanical seal", as opposed to a gland type of seal with stuffing in it.

..............apart from this the only thing that needs to be change is the orings on the unions,

Why would they have to be changed? The only time that the unions would be opened would be to remove the pump, and then only if they get damaged by the aforementioned "technician".

..............one other problem for pumps is running dry, this can occur in a few ways
leafs and derbies in the skimmer box/pump basket reducing flow

I think that you would need a whole tree in the skimmer box to achieve this! And what is a "derbies"?

..............faulty check valve either water returning to the pool after shut down and the pump starting up dry everytime and having to self prime or check valves being blocked and reducing flow

The pumps are self priming, or have you not noticed? The intake housing with the basket in it keeps the impeller submerged in water regardless of any check valves. A check valve on the suction line will assist in getting a full prime much quicker.

....when the pump runs dry the impeller spins at high revs

The impeller spins at the same revs regardless of if it is dry or otherwise!

.......the heat created by friction on the plastic will melt the impeller and water can leak back into the pump motor which will fry the pump

That`s interesting. Previously you have written that the seal leaking causes damage to the motor?

The big difference in pool pump quality is the materials used in the pump higher cost pumps should be using better quality plastic

Possibly, but more related to the overall build quality, not just the "plastic".

.....................most salt water units have a never run dry program which will sense low flow through the cell and turn the pump off

No, SOME chlorinators will have this feature.

............a better quality pump will last longer in these situations however they will fail after so many times.

So, according to you, ALL pumps are doomed to complete failure?

You are entitled to run your business as you see fit, and treat customers accordingly. But do not come on here spruiking about technical facts that you seem to know very little about. There are genuine questions asked on here, and the people asking them are entitled to an answer based on facts.
You may also want to consider that this is a relatively small community and word, good and bad, rapidly gets about!

[bonnielass]

What I forgot to say was, we have an overflow type of pool with a separate water holding tank; that tank was almost empty when we discovered the pump wasn't working. Could water starvation have caused the pump to fail?

It's a wee bit difficult to keep on top of this, as we don't live here.


BL