The Thai Family Coming to Town

[BOZ]

Enjoying the reading... I had some of my wife's family over for a visit in the states... They loved it and we spoiled them bigtime, but heck what are a "farang husband" good for...LOL.... I really enjoy my wife's family also as you do FRank!!! enjoy the visit... Keep us up to date!!!

[Frank La Rue]

This thread is full of HH content, how HH Thai people react to Norway, after all we constantly discuss the reverse.
I checked the Oslo weather, a little above freezing in the morning rising to a balmy 11c at noon. What is the reaction to that?

So far there has been a "windchill-factor" with winds from the North, so it has felt cold either way even at 11 C.
However, this afternoon the sligh breeze quietened down and it was possible to walk about in a shirt. They seem to take this in their stride, the light long into the night, like nine o'clock PM is more puzzling to them and troubles their sleep!

[jumusman]

So many farang living in Thailand seem to think they're still in their home country but the weather's better and the service worse.

Yeah I met some on Soi 80 the other day, fish and chips, pie and chips for lunch, kebabs for dinner and a full English every morning for breakfast. Then it was on to Dang Bar to play some great music on You Tube,

Chas and Dave
Dennis Waterman - I could be so good for you
Fat Les - Vindaloo

It was almost comical how predictable they all were, seriously, why are you even here in Thailand, just go home...

[Frank La Rue]

Allready on the arrival day, driving from the airport and along the motorway at the outskirts of Oslo did wife's sister comment upon the numerous sailing boats on the various small harbours. I though no further of it.
As we drove allong a scenic route at the Oslo fjord the observation was discussed again, returning from our excursion to the Exhibition.
This morning we drove further out past a town located at a river's mouth into the sea (Drammen) and further sailing boats were observed along the riverside.
Our destination for the trip was a scenic village further west called Sande and its recent development by the local fjord, where new settlements have been built and a large harbor is under development, allready hosting a bakery and a seaside restaurant.

The sun was out and people were unloading their boats from trucks and hangers, preparing for the famous norwegian boating season, famous in Norway to Norwegians, that is.

Finally my youngest Thai niece could not hold back the Thai question anymore:

Why are there so many sailing boats in Norway ???

In Thailand only the King has a sailing boat!

Well, not quite - There is the Royal Varuna Yacht Club and the Royal Marina, the latter I have visited for fun as it is there. Having grown up in Kanchanaburi she does not know these exist.

It turns out the omnipresence of literally douzens and some places into the hundreds of resident small and medium sailing boats and daycruisers genuinely puzzles them:

Why are there so many Sailing boats?

Who owns all the sailing boats?

Does the Norwegian King own all the sailing boats?

Isn't it cold to sail a boat in Norway?

Coincidentally and amusingly, this ties nicely in with another thread on this board - why there are no sailing boats on the sea off Hua Hin?

I did not fully know the answer and I dont fully understand the reason behind their question. Do they equate boats with wealth?
The fact is that Norway historically is a seafaring Nation and People, due to the long stretched coast line and out of necessity for trade and transport.
Furthermore, our Nationals are an Outdoors People, winter and summer, having learned to live WITH the climate, embrace and ally with the harshness, through experience and wit.

Norway has developed some of the most sofisticated winter- and outdoors wear/clothing manufacturers on industrial business scale in the world, and Norwegian top athleets make their fortunes when their careers in their sports are over, promoting clothing lines with their personal names as brand names for these clothes.
A refferal you, the readers may relate to is for instance what Bjørn Borg - the famous tennis atlethe has done and what Beckham is launching, it's the same business model.

So, with all this accumulated cultural competence and seafaring legacy, Norwegians love boating life.

And then there is the tax system. Duh? Has that got anything to do with boating?

Yes, it has.

Cars, as necessary as they are in the longstreched topography of Norway, are heavily taxed both at point of purchase and in terms of gazoline consumption. Boats are not.

Some 20 years ago the Government tried to introduce a boat tax as boating was seen as leisure and an expression of wealth.
It is the only time in my 60 years that I have seen our peaceful and law abiding People, considered and moderate in all their ways, get enraged.

The Government was taken by surprise.

In 1940 as the German occuation of Norway was a fact, Norwegians took to the sea in their boats, open or closed, sail or motor.
They sailed to Shetland or Scotland in order to join the allied forces under the Norwegian Government in exile, or sailed back and forth with contraband.

I don't own a sailing boat. I never did own a sailing boat.

My father did.

At the age of 19 he smugled Norwegian resistance fighters on the run from the German Occupation Army with his sailing boat in windy winter nights from the southern coast of Norway to the safe shores of Sweden.
He did this for several years untill he was found out and had to go underground.
The German Occupation Army put his mother in jail to make him turn himself in. With a band of brothers he got her out and they all fled to Sweden, safely.

On foot.

The German Occupation Army had confiscated his boat.

Imagine if Obama introduced a law of some sort which made it virtually impossible for any US citisen to buy a gun, own a gun or keep one in his house. What would U.S. citicens do?

That's right, they would do what the Norwegian People did when the Government introduced investment tax on boats.

It told the Government to F'ck off.

It refused to pay.

The tax law was withdrawn.

The Government had forgotten it's history.

Because of a Thai child's simple question I am now a wiser man. I have connected the dots.
I now truly understand why Norwegians love their boats and why there are a lot of them.


The topic of sailing boats in Norway versus sailing boats in Thailand epithomizes some fundamental differenes between our two Countries.
A simple question from a Thai child visiting Norway has opened a Pandforas box of differences and provided a hook to hinge the analysis and explanations on. Not of boating but of national characteristics, cultures and legacies.

How valuable a child's observations and questions can be at times and how much there is to reflect on in order to give a considered response.

Thailand has a coast line at least the lenght of Norway's coast line. None the less Thais don't sail.
If we can crack this on the other thread about lack of sailing boats off the coast of Hua Hin, I can go back to little Nung Phai and anwer her question.

[richard]

^^^ Wonderful

[hhfarang]

So many farang living in Thailand seem to think they're still in their home country but the weather's better and the service worse.

That totally depends on where you come from... I've been living here ten years and compared to my home country it's just the opposite of what you wrote. Here, the weather is much worse and the service is better.

[Bristolian]

So many farang living in Thailand seem to think they're still in their home country but the weather's better and the service worse.

That totally depends on where you come from... I've been living here ten years and compared to my home country it's just the opposite of what you wrote. Here, the weather is much worse and the service is better.

I would at least agree 50% insomuch that the service is much higher than is the norm in Europe or USA. I have just returned from 3 weeks in Germany ( my employer is a German company). I love Germany and to be honest the service is not bad....simply not as good as Thailand.

The other 50% I can not agree. It was between 6 and 11 degrees overnight and much too cold for me after 14 years in Thailand and much longer in Asia. I do however sympathise, having read your previous mails re the heat in Thailand, I guess this is approaching the worst time of year for you in Thailand....it's getting a "tad" warm at the moment.

Back to Topic

I'm loving the reports from Norway. Great Job Frank! Keep the stories coming. It's the little things that we see as normal that our Thai relatives see as incredulous, when they venture for the first time to Europe/USA/Scandinavia. Can't wait for their first experience of a Scandinavian Sauna.

[PeteC]

..... Can't wait for their first experience of a Scandinavian Sauna.

If he gets them all to run out naked and jump into a snow bank, we need video.

[Frank La Rue]

^^^ Wonderful

Thank You Richard.

Boats were developed by the people, for the people and made the Nation. Before there was oil Norway made fortunes from shipbuilding and shipping world wide.

To write the story about cars in Norway would take a couple of hours internet research
To write the story of boating would take years of research and interviewing and still miss out on stories worth telling.

[Gregjam]

This is one of the most interesting threads that has been on the forum for a while and I expect there are many others like me who are enjoying the reports. It would be even better without the off topic comments that keep coming up. If you have something to say create a different thread please. When I took my kids to live in the UK when they were five and seven it was an experience with some similar factors that I can recognize but not having a forum at the time it was an experience I could not share. Keep the reports coming Frank, I am sure there are a lot of us here following this with interest.

[Frank La Rue]

..... Can't wait for their first experience of a Scandinavian Sauna.

If he gets them all to run out naked and jump into a snow bank, we need video.

prcscct, Bristolian,

I don't have a sauna ar home but I shall build in some observations about Thais abroad and nudity in future posts.

[Frank La Rue]

This is one of the most interesting threads that has been on the forum for a while and I expect there are many others like me who are enjoying the reports. It would be even better without the off topic comments that keep coming up. If you have something to say create a different thread please. When I took my kids to live in the UK when they were five and seven it was an experience with some similar factors that I can recognize but not having a forum at the time it was an experience I could not share. Keep the reports coming Frank, I am sure there are a lot of us here following this with interest.

Thanks for those encouraging words Gregjam. Yes, there are issues to be aware off when thais come to colder climate. clothing is the most apparent one. I have made some references to that in the initial post, I'll add some more from the experiences I had when my wife came here.

One typical issue is that Thai women giving birth to children in our country become over protective with them with regards to winter climate and try to protect them from getting addapted to it. THe latter is necessary to build the natural resilience.
In our climate we naturally expext children to fall ill a lot in the age 1 - 3 with various colds including fever.
The thought in our culture amongs everybody from parents, kinder garden, medical personnel is that they aquire the viruses and bacteria in the environment and build resistance to these so that they will not fall ill later.
This scares Thai mothers in colder countries and they try to avoid it through excessive clothing, closed windows, driving kids to school instead of letting them walk with friends etc.

When my son was two I simply decided that winter not to have my customary gin tonic before dinner followed by red wine on fridays and saturdays, as I never knew when I would have to drive any of them off to the hospital with one of the customary feverish colds.

To sooth my wifes concerns we always drowe to the hospital although I knew from my culture they would send us back home telling us to administer the fever with fever relieving medicine and let the virus burn itself out.
Not going on those occasions woudl have sent her in to confrontations with me as she felt it necessary to go, not having any experience with these typical feverish colds.

As Norwegian I knew this and with a Norwegian wife we would never have gone, just securing enough fever containing medicine in the house.
For me, this routine was just part of the packadge I knew about hwen bringing a thai to the country and having kids with her.
For her, they were very threatening experiences visavis our son.

[GLCQuantum]

This is one of the most interesting threads that has been on the forum...

I entirely agree with this. I've really enjoyed reading through this thread Frank. It's not often a thread like this comes about (actually, I don't think we've ever had a 'diary' of sorts following Thais holidaying in foreign countries).

Well done for, firstly, going out of your way to keep the family happy and allowing them to explore a different culture and ,secondly, for letting us know how it went.

It would be even better without the off topic comments that keep coming up. If you have something to say create a different thread please.

I completely disagree with this. I think this thread opens up all kinds of discussion and should be allowed to flow freely just like it has done. There have been no 'troll' comments or the like. Just comments from people who are genuinely interested and want to add there two pence.

[Frank La Rue]

This is one of the most interesting threads that has been on the forum...

I entirely agree with this. I've really enjoyed reading through this thread Frank. It's not often a thread like this comes about (actually, I don't think we've ever had a 'diary' of sorts following Thais holidaying in foreign countries).

Well done for, firstly, going out of your way to keep the family happy and allowing them to explore a different culture and ,secondly, for letting us know how it went.

GLCQuantum, thanks for your encouragement. They are nice people, not "Thai Greedy" the way some stories unfortunately go. It makes it enjoyable to accomodate them and bond.

-Frank

[Frank La Rue]

Today we are out again, it's a little before mid day before we head towards the town of Drammen, located at it's rivermouth by the fjord.
We will drive up a tunnel road called the Spiral, as it is carved out inside the mountainside of the town, twisting upwards like exactly that, a spiral.
On the top there is viewing point, a canon from former times when this point was also used to control military movements in the valley below, and there is a restaurant.
This peak is often frequented by tourists and locals alike, as it is a natural point from which to trek further north and east into the moutains behind the town.

It has become apparent to me that all four of our visitors, mother and children allike are avid takers of pictures with their individual smart phones.
I have been told that they feed family and friends at home with pictures every night:

Lets go take pictures!

Spiralen.6.resize.jpg (20.49 KiB) Viewed 497 times

Whay about from here?

I want to pick a fignt!

Lets make a pic of us too, with the view in the background!

As the weather has been sunny the last couple of days voices from Thailand indicate that there is an increasing interest in coming and visit us on future occasions
There are now two airlines flying direct between Bangkok and Oslo , Thai Air and Norwegian, with quite reasonable prices when you keep an eye on ticket price fluctuations, so this is not at all out of the realm of the possible.

The children are hungry again and we go into the restaurant/coffee shop to see what there is. They are adverse to trying to eat anything alien to them, so we have to find another solution. MacDonalds again.
We descend through the spiral tunnel road and head for a parking I know of almost next to the Thai supermraket we plan to visit and incidentally with a MacDonnalds outlet near by.

The kids settle in with Happy meals and burgers at MacD whilst my wife and I go and get the shopping done for the week.

I have made the observation over the last 4 days that the Thai children seem to tire easily when we are out and get hungry very quickly, my son does not.

Based on whatever my experience is worth from travelling and living in various parts of the world I have developed a view which is at best a hypothesis, at worst you may take it as wild spekulation.

I have on purpose not consulted the internet for any research on diet and nurture, albeith I would expect such to exist. I have not done this, as I choose to reflect on things and then investigate later.

Anyway, here it is in short version:

Arctic Climate > local Diet/Nurture > Pysical & Mental Tenacity > Culture plan & organize > Religion teach Pain, Suffering, Adversity can be overcome in This Life > Scientific & Material Progress

Tropical Climate > local Diet/Nurture > Physical & Mental coping > Cultur for accept As Is > Religion teach endure Pain, Suffering, Adversity in this life - award by better conditions in Next Life > No Scientific & Material Progress.

NOTE: I am not reffering to Asian countries here, but tropical countries. Japan, South Korea, China are all Asian countries which have colder climates.

What has the above got to do with our Thai visitors? Bear with me, I am going somehwere with this.

The hypothesis above has, alt least to me, some philosophical consequences, It is a wide spread belief in the West that the Scientific and Material progress, seen as apparent technological superiority by the West, came out of

1) the Democratic ideal to let ideas develop freely, be freely shared
combined with
2) The advance of rational thought, i.e. in short the philosophy started with Francis Bacon

The combination of the two lead to the Industrial Revolution, the the woolspinning business in Manchester, the steam engine and T Fords, and subsequently a world everything a christian conservative hold dear.

Now I ask:

1) May it be that the scientific and material progress is not in the West, but actually in the North?

2) and that this progress is not because of the Power of our Ideas (Democracy) but the Power of our Diet?, over many Generations, i.e. genetic but also over the lifetime of an individual?

We all know the West/North battle with significant life style illnesses like obesity, heart desease, Diabetes etc due to diet, let's not confuse the two.

If there is any substance in this hypothesis it means that Tropical countries have developed a diet full of liquids (fruit) for the heat and spieces for preservation, whilst they are not getting the nurture over generations needed to foster the tenacity to overcome adversity. The other half of the hypothesis is that Religion does not influnence Climate, but climate has shaped local religions.

What thais eat is quicky absorbed and burned by methabolism and require frequent refill. Tired Thai chlidren in my car, whilst my son can keep going.

Aware that the representation is a gross simplification I'll allow my self to go all out with a "Gedanken Experiment" and mean no disprespect:

Is it possible that getting more thai children thought 2ndary school and into college and univeristy in Thailand is not going to get Thailand more Nobel prizes in Chemstry, Physics and Economics?

Do the Ministries of Health and Education have to foster a culture with focus on a nurture which provides what climate requires in Thailand but also one that foster physical and mental tenacity?

When Thais come to the Arctic to stay, will aquiring a taste for food other than thai better make them cope?
2nd generation Hong Kong Chineese I read get a sharp increase in Heart Disease and Cancer allegedly due to westernizing their diet, but is there a kind of Northen Hemispisphere diet which actually does make a difference?

When we take up residence in Thailand we are well adviced to take up their diet in order to better cope with the tropical climate? To me the latter has felt that way for a long time.

My three Thai nieces and nephew are in their teen age years which itself is an age requiring refill against fatigue, moreover they are now in an arctic climate which tax their bodies differently.

You are all welcome to fire away at me on this, but nurture is my explanation for three Thai children who can only take an Hour and a Half on the road before being tired and hungry.


---------------------------------

Postlude

the Northern wind changed this evening, it is possible to sit outside in shirt sleeves only, also for our thai family.
We are talking about doing what Wifey and son and I have done many times, bring the Lunch basket allong with chicken, rice, salad, hot dogs, bread, BBQ one-time grill and Cokes.
Where we go on excursions for scenery there are good facilities prepared by government for grilling and eating out. This may address our excursion range and overall well being for the children. And it's fun too!