Juventus ...

Post by **Burger** » Sat Jul 15, 2006 7:44 pm

Win their first 11 matches in Serie B next season and they could find themselves bottom of the table with 3 points.
Hilarious.

Burger

Post by **Guess** » Sat Jul 15, 2006 9:09 pm

Bitter Pill for me to swallow. But every cloud has a silver lining.

It is very unfair on the players and supporters who were not involved but what else could be done apart from criminal procedings with long sentences for those found guilty.

The situation leaves Juve in the worst position of all and it may take three to five years to return to Seria A if at all. I think they will hold there own in Serie B despite the 30 points penalty. AC Milan seemd to have got the best deal and the other two seemed to have been penalised in such a way to enable them to be strong contenders for promotion.

Obviously the situation will become more clear after the transfer market has been completed.

The good side of all this is that now young players coming into the game can play for great clubs that would have been out of their reach in other circumstance.

Hopefully in three years things may get back to normal.

Post by **Big Boy** » Sat Jul 15, 2006 9:44 pm

According to the news here in the UK, this trial is only the start of much bigger things to come. They reckon the corrupt players will be the next to face the axe. I hope for the sake of World Football that the Juventus players are not as corrupt as their management - however, its hard to believe that match fixing is simply down to just the man in black in the middle of the pitch.

It is notable that the last time Italy won the World Cup, it came after a similar debarcle:

Italy's World Cup triumph in Spain in 1982 came two years after a huge controversy over match-fixing.

I just hope we don't get too many more cheats into the English game as they abandon the sinking ship

Post by **lomuamart** » Sat Jul 15, 2006 11:16 pm

It's not normal that I say some thing on football.
Sod the Italian teams.
End of story. A sorry reflection of idiots who were caught on tape.
And, yes they all deserve to fry.
And don't tell me the players don't deserve it. Fck them. As if they didn't know.

Post by **Burger** » Sat Jul 15, 2006 11:51 pm

All the Juve players are coke-heads anyway.

Well ok, some of them back in the late 90's took some vitamins they shouldn't have, same difference

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/footbal ... 045525.stm

Burger

Post by **Burger** » Sat Jul 15, 2006 11:56 pm

Post by **Bamboo Grove** » Sun Jul 16, 2006 1:35 pm

Although I have no symphathy whatsoever for the teams, I don't know if these decisions are good for the Italian football as a whole. There best players will move to other countries, which might mean less spectators which would mean less advertisement money coming in which would mean.... On the other hand it will be a good chance for young players to show their skills.

Post by **PeteB** » Sun Jul 16, 2006 2:26 pm

Am I just a Cynic?

Guess

AC Milan seemd to have got the best deal and the other two seemed to have been penalised in such a way to enable them to be strong contenders for promotion"

I wonder how much that cost?

Peter

Post by **NicFrenchy** » Sun Jul 16, 2006 7:04 pm

Good news... that will teach them to play by the rules

Post by **Guess** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 2:31 pm

Big Boy wrote:......They reckon the corrupt players will be the next to face the axe. I hope for the sake of World Football that the Juventus players are not as corrupt as their management - however, its hard to believe that match fixing is simply down to just the man in black in the middle of the pitch.

It is notable that the last time Italy won the World Cup, it came after a similar debacle:

Italy's World Cup triumph in Spain in 1982 came two years after a huge controversy over match-fixing.
I just hope we don't get too many more cheats into the English game as they abandon the sinking ship

As I have said before it is just that now it is Italy's turn for the corruption scandal that has happened in many oher countries before, including England and Germany within the last decade. One of the few downsides of Italy as a country is that corruption is (or has been) rife. Other Latin countries are similar. The good side is that they are gradually clamping down (albeit a couple of decades behind norther Europe. What we are seeing here is yet another purge in the so far sacred industry of soccer.

As for corrupt players are concerned you can corrupt them to loose games by not taking opportunities and pay goalkeepers to miss saves but you can not corrupt a player to play better other than giving him drugs which has proved of little help in soccer anyway. The way the players are "corrupted" to win is by paying vast sums of money, all legally, so as to attract the best avialble. Some clubs are better positioned to do so and have had a large degree of success. I believ what you said though that corruption can not be solley down to the man in black. He would be spotted fairly wuickly if his decisions were consistently in favour of one or selection of sides However is much less likely in the Italian case that the players are anyway involved. All four teams penalised so far have had success. Just look at the squads of the two main teams involved. Any team in the world in any country in the world have success if they had the players they gave got.

What I now question is why the hell was any kind of underhanded pactices needed. It is a bit like Chelsea, Arsenal and Manchester United paying of officials to win games. They don't need to, with the players they have they can all win most games anyway.

There is obviously a lot more to the story than what is being leaked into the press of course bearing in mind that the most corrupt industry in the world is the media themselves, who and what do you believe.

Anyway to repeat what I have already said. The whole affair is unfair on the players and the fans who are the real participants and originators of the game. I also have some sympathy with officials and sideline professionals who would never dream of getting involved in anything that smelt of corruption.

Post by **Guess** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 3:16 pm

I am begining to get the sniff of more subterfuge.

I have just looked at a site on the BBC which supposedly lists all the players that may be up for sale as a result of the scandal. Interesting fact is that according to my calculations the average age is 30 despite including the 2 (could play anywhere in the wordl) players under 25. I.e. Ibrahimovic and Kaka.

All of the others remaining they were either, end of career, about to be put into stud or were already on extensions pre-retirement. Hardly the bargain of the century that has been bandied about in the press.

One big mystery for me that has not been answered since it happened is, why did Viera move from Arsenal to Juve in the first place. From my perspective it was all a bit hush hush and sudden. Maybe some Arsenal fans out there have some opinion on that.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/footbal ... 150260.stm

Post by **Big Boy** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 6:45 pm

Guess stated:

As I have said before it is just that now it is Italy's turn for the corruption scandal that has happened in many oher countries before, including England and Germany within the last decade. One of the few downsides of Italy as a country is that corruption is (or has been) rife. Other Latin countries are similar.

When was the last English scandal proved, and who did it involve? I can remember some being proved several decades ago, but I can't remember anything being proven in the last 10 years. Maybe my memory is failing me as I'm getting older.

Post by **caller** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 3:14 am

Not proved in a criminal court maybe, but the judge in the Grobbelaar / Sun libel case summed it all up after the collapse of the criminal case against Grobbelaar, Fashanu and others, by awarding Brucey boy one pound sterling for the damage done to his reputation and effectively bankrupted him.

I would recommend "Foul Play" by David Thomas, who chronicled the whole sordid story and had all sorts of obstacles to overcome just to get the book published, and it revolves around gambling in one of Thailands neighbours (Corgi books 2004).

Post by **Big Boy** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 3:21 am

From what I can remember, Peter Swann was the last one actually found guilty of match fixing in the English league.

The Italians do it every time they want to win the World Cup.

Post by **Guess** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 3:58 am

Big Boy wrote:From what I can remember, Peter Swann was the last one actually found guilty of match fixing in the English league.

The Italians do it every time they want to win the World Cup.

THis dialogue seems to be getting nowhere. The current scandall is much larger than any I have known of previously. A coupld mof points here though.

Do not mix Serie coccer with the international game.

As for Lomu's unsubstantiated comment, I ask again how can players and coaching staff be bribed to win games They can be offered bonuses for winning and usually are. You can only bribe a competitor to throw games.

As for corruption elsewhere, I agree that the Grobelaar, Fashanu and others may be have been nore than ten years ago. Time flies. The German scandal was much more recent. Recent scandals in English football have been the unorthadox approach to Ashley Cole by Chelsea. Heavy handed tactics trying to lure Obe from an imminent signing for Chelsea and force hin to sign for Manchester United and longer ago the Ferdinand refusal to take a drugs test.

I think sour grapes still apllies to some of you. There has been much criticism of the refereeing at bthe recent World Cup but none of as far as I know aimed at match fixing.

If less power was given to the referee and more technology bused for decisions then nmany of the on piche issues could be solved on the spot. Cheating referees could more easily be spoteed aswell.