Harry Kane vs Jimmy Greaves vs Dixie Dean vs Anybody Else

[Dannie Boy]

Actually it all started off by Harry Kane becoming the all-time highest scoring England footballer and I threw in that in goals per game, Jimmy Greaves had the best record and was considered by many as Englands greatest ever goal scorer - but that of course is debatable!!

[sateeb]

OK then - I'm voting for John Toshack as both player and manager ...

Hmm, you might have inadvertently struck on a neat idea. Who is the best footballer turned manager, taking into account their skills and success in oth jobs? Only British initially, I think.

So we already have Toshack, and you mentioned Keagan. Who else do we have?
Dalgleish
Rooney
Gerrard
Lampard
Scott Parker
Hoddle
Southgate
Sherwood
...

Blimey, there's going to be loads of 'em. Maybe we should introduce some restrictions, like international players and Premiership managers. Or maybe this was just a daft idea!

Certainly not a daft idea, it's a great question!

Not sure why you haven't mentioned Sir Alex or Brian Clough though. Surely it would be between those two if Brits only. Maybe three with Bob Paisley.

But should be another topic/thread really as, following on from the Euro 24 thread, Dannie starting talking about the greatest goalscorers of all time(I'm guessing again he was meaning British).



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I wouldn't put Fergie, Cloughie or Paisley as "great" footballers turned manager. Great managers in their own right though.

[thecolonel]

Hmm, you might have inadvertently struck on a neat idea. Who is the best footballer turned manager, taking into account their skills and success in oth jobs? Only British initially, I think.

So we already have Toshack, and you mentioned Keagan. Who else do we have?
Dalgleish
Rooney
Gerrard
Lampard
Scott Parker
Hoddle
Southgate
Sherwood
...

Blimey, there's going to be loads of 'em. Maybe we should introduce some restrictions, like international players and Premiership managers. Or maybe this was just a daft idea!

Certainly not a daft idea, it's a great question!

Not sure why you haven't mentioned Sir Alex or Brian Clough though. Surely it would be between those two if Brits only. Maybe three with Bob Paisley.

But should be another topic/thread really as, following on from the Euro 24 thread, Dannie starting talking about the greatest goalscorers of all time(I'm guessing again he was meaning British).



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I wouldn't put Fergie, Cloughie or Paisley as "great" footballers turned manager. Great managers in their own right though.

That can read two ways

Best Footballer...... turned
Manager

Or

Best.... Footballer turned Manager

I read it the latter way

I suppose if I'd looked at the list provided I might've concluded it was the former(But I have a migraine so I cannot concentrate properly).

Anyway, Cloughie was a great striker. Sadly his career was short by a very bad injury



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[dtaai-maai]

Not sure why you haven't mentioned Sir Alex or Brian Clough though. Surely it would be between those two if Brits only. Maybe three with Bob Paisley.

Only because I suddenly realised just how many there must be! Hundreds of the buggers! Add Bobby Robson to the list, and Venables, Don Revie, Jack Charlton...

EDIT: ... and that's why I mentioned combined talents and success. If you take their playing days into account, Ferguson and Clough wouldn't necessarily be so far ahead of the rest.

[Dannie Boy]

And don’t forget, the only time England won the World Cup was with Sir Alf Ramsey, who had previously played for Southampton and Spurs and played for England 32 times!!

[Dannie Boy]

We can discuss Kane, Greaves and even Dixie Dean’s goal scoring prowess, but as much as Cristiano Ronaldo is a Prima-Donna in many peoples eyes, you can’t get away from his amazing goal-scoring achievements - 122 international goals for Portugal in 198 appearances and even at the age of 37, he’s still knocking them in!!

[GroveHillWanderer]

I wouldn't put Fergie, Cloughie or Paisley as "great" footballers turned manager. Great managers in their own right though.

You wouldn't put Cloughie as a great player? You've got to be joking. He was one of the greatest strikers ever seen in English football (if not the greatest). His goals per game ratio was absolutely tremendous - 251 goals in 274 games.

He had a better strike rate than any of the other goalscorers mentioned in this thread, such as Greaves, Charlton, Rooney, Kane (or even Dixie Dean) for instance.

Haaland may eventually overtake him (if he stays in Engand) but as it stands, Clough has the highest goals-per-game ratio of any player to score more than 200 goals in English league play.

[HarryVardon]

When I was young there were NO substitutes You only got an England cap if you played 90 minutes. There were very few international matches compared to today. Bobby Charlton's 100 caps is probably equivalent to 200 caps today. He scored so many goals because he played for many, many years. Whether Kane will still be a top goalscorer when he passes 30 is still to be answered. No list of top scorers is ever complete without Dennis Law, Tommy Taylor, Dixie Dean, Alan Shearer, etc. I would generally say that footballers of the past had more skill than the footballers of today and they had to play in much more difficult conditions. As well as the pitches being extraordinarily bad the goalscorers were never protected from violent defenders. If a defender chopped a forward down he was rarely punished. If an attacker retaliated he was normally suspended for at least 4 weeks.

[thecolonel]

When I was young there were NO substitutes You only got an England cap if you played 90 minutes. There were very few international matches compared to today. Bobby Charlton's 100 caps is probably equivalent to 200 caps today. He scored so many goals because he played for many, many years. Whether Kane will still be a top goalscorer when he passes 30 is still to be answered. No list of top scorers is ever complete without Dennis Law, Tommy Taylor, Dixie Dean, Alan Shearer, etc. I would generally say that footballers of the past had more skill than the footballers of today and they had to play in much more difficult conditions. As well as the pitches being extraordinarily bad the goalscorers were never protected from violent defenders. If a defender chopped a forward down he was rarely punished. If an attacker retaliated he was normally suspended for at least 4 weeks.

Well said.
In many ways Haaland has it so easy compared to Dean.

The football(weighed a tonne)
The boots
The quality of supporting players
Quality of pitches
Worse tackles
Injury recovery/medical staff
Nutrition/diet
Training methods
Better athletes now
Coached from much younger age
Sports Science
Even the kit!

I should know, I was there!

I could probably go on

60 goals in season to win the league

How many will Haaland have put on a plate for him?

He's a great striker mind you, the best in the business. But im not having it that it's twice as hard to score goals now as it was for Dean and everything he had to cope with




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[Dannie Boy]

As I said previously, you can’t compare then and now, so just rejoice in the FACT that DD was the best of his era, as Haaland is at the moment!!

[Lost]

Whether Kane will still be a top goalscorer when he passes 30 is still to be answered

His style of play means he'll play at the highest level into his mid-to-late 30s. He's not reliant on speed (fortunate cos he has none ) so won't get the common injuries related to speedy players or the downturn of form when the pace slows with age. It's another reason Ronaldo's staying power in the game is quite extraordinary given the way he's adapted his game while avoiding lengthy injuries.

My guess is Kane will play at the top for another 10 years. As long as his glass ankles don't get any tough love on the pitch, he'll be fine.

[Dannie Boy]

Talking about great players from years gone by, Glen Hoddle must rate as one of the most gifted players ever and virtually as good with either feet.

[dtaai-maai]

^^Yes, and criminally underused by England. 53 caps, should have been twice that.

[Dannie Boy]

^^Yes, and criminally underused by England. 53 caps, should have been twice that.

Yes I was reading a column by Joe Cole who reckons England should have built their team around Hoddle - he’s also saying the same about Grealish who I must admit, after a somewhat tepid first year at City, is now playing as well, if not better than he did at Villa?


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