Its getting ridiculous, since when has Google or any other international website been subject to Thai law?
If Google remove the clips (which I believe they have already done) it will be an act of generosity and courtesy on their part - not because a bunch of old fossils in a developing country under a military dictatorship somewhere in Southeast Asia demand they do so.
New "cyber crime" law.
Pete 
Good thread to vent, if too outrageous, management can just delete the whole thing.
Terrorism doesn't necessarily mean blood, bombs and death. It can be any act where an individual feels too insecure to go about life in a normal manner or speak in a normal manner. The biggest part of terrorism is intimidation which disrupts normal life, economies, education etc., thus fulfilling the terrorists goals, ie, 'we will win just by making them scared'.
The level of "being scared" is a personal matter, therefore any degree of intimidation by any government can be defined as sanctioned terrorism. I've been calling the IRS in the USA terrorists for decades because they use methods (often untrue accusations and harassment) to scare people, just to fill their files with a much information as possible about that person.
There are continuing examples of terrorism on this website and two have been talked about this week. 1) immigration 2) transferring funds OFC.
Who goes to immigration? Farangs do, not Thais. This is exactly why some tin star cop can sit there and arbitrarily change the law to suit his/her mood that given day. Few challenge them and those who do get the brush off and decide it's best to agree.
Who with personal bank accounts transfer money out of the country? 99% farangs do. This is why some manager in nakon nowhere can arbitrarily change the banking regulations to suit his/her mood that given day. No one ever challenges them, etc., etc.
Someday someone should challenge them. Maybe me if the opportunity arises. As the subpoenas get delivered to immigration HQ and the bank HQ, a press release will be issued to every newspaper in the known world about how farangs are treated here. Then we'll sure as hell see a Thai dance in a hot wok.
This recurring statement we see on here sometimes "we are guests of Thailand" is unmitigated bullshit. Whether you are on a 30 day visa waiver all the way up to a Thailand Elite life time visa, you have rights. You have rights to be protected, rights to be treated equally and fairly without discrimination, and most certainly rights not to be the butt of abuse because Thai's don't understand this new "self sufficiency" theory, and think it means everything not Thai is now bad.
There is not one Thai constitution ever written that says "this is for Thai's and this is for non Thai's". However, the lame thinking try to interpret things that way I guess to make themselves feel that they are patriots?
I'm really anxious to see what happens here after the elections. Pete
Terrorism doesn't necessarily mean blood, bombs and death. It can be any act where an individual feels too insecure to go about life in a normal manner or speak in a normal manner. The biggest part of terrorism is intimidation which disrupts normal life, economies, education etc., thus fulfilling the terrorists goals, ie, 'we will win just by making them scared'.
The level of "being scared" is a personal matter, therefore any degree of intimidation by any government can be defined as sanctioned terrorism. I've been calling the IRS in the USA terrorists for decades because they use methods (often untrue accusations and harassment) to scare people, just to fill their files with a much information as possible about that person.
There are continuing examples of terrorism on this website and two have been talked about this week. 1) immigration 2) transferring funds OFC.
Who goes to immigration? Farangs do, not Thais. This is exactly why some tin star cop can sit there and arbitrarily change the law to suit his/her mood that given day. Few challenge them and those who do get the brush off and decide it's best to agree.
Who with personal bank accounts transfer money out of the country? 99% farangs do. This is why some manager in nakon nowhere can arbitrarily change the banking regulations to suit his/her mood that given day. No one ever challenges them, etc., etc.
Someday someone should challenge them. Maybe me if the opportunity arises. As the subpoenas get delivered to immigration HQ and the bank HQ, a press release will be issued to every newspaper in the known world about how farangs are treated here. Then we'll sure as hell see a Thai dance in a hot wok.
This recurring statement we see on here sometimes "we are guests of Thailand" is unmitigated bullshit. Whether you are on a 30 day visa waiver all the way up to a Thailand Elite life time visa, you have rights. You have rights to be protected, rights to be treated equally and fairly without discrimination, and most certainly rights not to be the butt of abuse because Thai's don't understand this new "self sufficiency" theory, and think it means everything not Thai is now bad.
There is not one Thai constitution ever written that says "this is for Thai's and this is for non Thai's". However, the lame thinking try to interpret things that way I guess to make themselves feel that they are patriots?
I'm really anxious to see what happens here after the elections. Pete
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Guess
- Deceased
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- Location: BangSaphan. Laurasia. Sub thumb
An interesting one. The practicality is though that to enforce the charges the perpetrator would have to be in the country or sent there by mean of an extradition order which would require the approval of the host nation.prcscct wrote: This could be ground breaking stuff.....as the internet is worldwide, it could be deemed a criminal act if something is posted that is against the law in a country where the poster is/was not present...? Could stick. Maybe it will go all the way to The Hague?
As for crimes committed by a national in a country that does not wish to make charges is concerned the person is still liable to face charges in his home country or any other that have a solid extradition treaty.
E.g. if I murder a Swedish man in Thailand and the Thais decide not to prosecute I can not then freely travel to the US end expect to live free and undetected. I would expect to be charged in the US or extradited to Sweden to face charges.
Although the Internet posting would be seen as a lot less serious by most it does not mean to say that the Thai would not win and order to have the perpetrator brought to Thailand. Myanmar would have no chance but Thailand, maybe.
[color=blue][size=134]Care in the community success story.[/size][/color]
If anyone found themselves in a courtroom over this sort of thing, they should hit the prosecution with this:
Universal Declaration of Human Rights,
Adopted and proclaimed by General Assembly resolution 217 A (III) of 10 December 1948
Article 19.
Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers.
Universal Declaration of Human Rights,
Adopted and proclaimed by General Assembly resolution 217 A (III) of 10 December 1948
Article 19.
Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers.
BangkokPost.com, Agencies
The latest development came on Friday, just as the kerfuffle over the Internet videos appeared to be dying down and headed for a mutual resolution after YouTube.com began removing insulting videos and the government said it would reopen the site to all Thai visitors.
The Information and Communication Technology Ministry re-escalated the battle against the anti-monarchy videos on Friday, saying Thai authorities would demand YouTube.com hand over the Internet addresses of those who uploaded the clips.
The number of clips insulting the monarch has mushroomed after news spread around the world that Thailand had banned the popular site.
As of Friday night at 9 p.m. Thailand time, several of the insulting clips had disappeared from the YouTube.com site. But many others remained. All of the videos were available up until Friday afternoon Thailand time.
Now, ICT Minister Sitthichai Pookaiyaudom says authorities wanted to charge those who posted the mocking video clips with lese majeste, the crime of offending a monarch, which is punishable by up to15 years imprisonment.
"The police will ask for information from the company to file criminal charges against them," he said on Friday.
Mr Sitthichai did not say what might happen if YouTube refuses to hand over the information. A decision by YouTube or its owners to give such information to the Thai government would earn Thailand and Mr Sitthichai a firestorm of criticism across the Internet, and by civil rights groups around the world.
Even if YouTube or Google were to roll over and give the government the IP addresses, it would take more work to track down the actual people involved.
As of now, no one knows where the uploaders of the insulting videos live. IP addresses can be traced to an Internet company, which then would have to be compelled to match the Internet Protocol address to a specific user. There is little chance that a foreign court would allow such an invasion of privacy, but a Thai Internet provider would probably turn over such information in a case of insulting the monarchy.
Mr Sitthichai issued the threat to demand IP addresses two days after Google, which owns YouTube.com, informed the ministry that it would remove controversial video clips from the website. In turn, the ministry cancelled plans to try to launch a cirminal suit against Google at the Bangkok Criminal Court on Friday.
Mr Sitthichai said the ministry would unblock the YouTube website "immediately" - when all the clips were gone.
But there is great uncertainty over whether the videos will be removed. The text of the letter to Mr Sitthichai from Google vice president Kent Walker has been released, and Mr Walker said at least two of the videos cited by a Thai complaint would stay as they did not break lese majeste laws.
"They appear to be political comments that are critical of both the government and the conduct of foreigners," the letter said.
"Because they are political in nature, and not intended insults of His Majesty, we do not see a basis for blocking these videos," said the letter.
As of Friday at 4:30 p.m. Thailand time, all or most of the offensive clips were still on the YouTube.com site, according to informants able to access the website. And the government's attempt to block the site also remained in place.
The site was blocked in Thailand since early April when a clip mocking the King was posted to the website.
Data provided on YouTube claimed that the five most-seen videos that are meant to be offensive to the monarchy have been seen 137,000 times - a tiny number by YouTube standards, where popular videos routinely have more than 10 million views.
The recent advertising spoof featuring Hillary Clinton has had more than 3.5 million views, and a 100-second video of a baby laughing has been viewed more than 14.9 million times.
The latest development came on Friday, just as the kerfuffle over the Internet videos appeared to be dying down and headed for a mutual resolution after YouTube.com began removing insulting videos and the government said it would reopen the site to all Thai visitors.
The Information and Communication Technology Ministry re-escalated the battle against the anti-monarchy videos on Friday, saying Thai authorities would demand YouTube.com hand over the Internet addresses of those who uploaded the clips.
The number of clips insulting the monarch has mushroomed after news spread around the world that Thailand had banned the popular site.
As of Friday night at 9 p.m. Thailand time, several of the insulting clips had disappeared from the YouTube.com site. But many others remained. All of the videos were available up until Friday afternoon Thailand time.
Now, ICT Minister Sitthichai Pookaiyaudom says authorities wanted to charge those who posted the mocking video clips with lese majeste, the crime of offending a monarch, which is punishable by up to15 years imprisonment.
"The police will ask for information from the company to file criminal charges against them," he said on Friday.
Mr Sitthichai did not say what might happen if YouTube refuses to hand over the information. A decision by YouTube or its owners to give such information to the Thai government would earn Thailand and Mr Sitthichai a firestorm of criticism across the Internet, and by civil rights groups around the world.
Even if YouTube or Google were to roll over and give the government the IP addresses, it would take more work to track down the actual people involved.
As of now, no one knows where the uploaders of the insulting videos live. IP addresses can be traced to an Internet company, which then would have to be compelled to match the Internet Protocol address to a specific user. There is little chance that a foreign court would allow such an invasion of privacy, but a Thai Internet provider would probably turn over such information in a case of insulting the monarchy.
Mr Sitthichai issued the threat to demand IP addresses two days after Google, which owns YouTube.com, informed the ministry that it would remove controversial video clips from the website. In turn, the ministry cancelled plans to try to launch a cirminal suit against Google at the Bangkok Criminal Court on Friday.
Mr Sitthichai said the ministry would unblock the YouTube website "immediately" - when all the clips were gone.
But there is great uncertainty over whether the videos will be removed. The text of the letter to Mr Sitthichai from Google vice president Kent Walker has been released, and Mr Walker said at least two of the videos cited by a Thai complaint would stay as they did not break lese majeste laws.
"They appear to be political comments that are critical of both the government and the conduct of foreigners," the letter said.
"Because they are political in nature, and not intended insults of His Majesty, we do not see a basis for blocking these videos," said the letter.
As of Friday at 4:30 p.m. Thailand time, all or most of the offensive clips were still on the YouTube.com site, according to informants able to access the website. And the government's attempt to block the site also remained in place.
The site was blocked in Thailand since early April when a clip mocking the King was posted to the website.
Data provided on YouTube claimed that the five most-seen videos that are meant to be offensive to the monarchy have been seen 137,000 times - a tiny number by YouTube standards, where popular videos routinely have more than 10 million views.
The recent advertising spoof featuring Hillary Clinton has had more than 3.5 million views, and a 100-second video of a baby laughing has been viewed more than 14.9 million times.
Sadly it seems that basic human rights and freedom of speech do not extend to countries whose leaders are authoritarian rulers who muzzle the media and keep a chokehold on information through restrictive laws, fear, and intimidation.
THIS IS THAILAND TODAY. Like it or not. Internet and media censorship is on the increase and there is very little the Thais can do about it, let alone us worthless "aliens".
Additional: A website setup by Thais campaigning against internet censorship can be found at http://facthai.wordpress.com/
Additional additional: I'm surprised that hasn't been censored.
THIS IS THAILAND TODAY. Like it or not. Internet and media censorship is on the increase and there is very little the Thais can do about it, let alone us worthless "aliens".
Additional: A website setup by Thais campaigning against internet censorship can be found at http://facthai.wordpress.com/
Additional additional: I'm surprised that hasn't been censored.
Last edited by buksida on Fri May 11, 2007 10:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Who is the happier man, he who has braved the storm of life and lived or he who has stayed securely on shore and merely existed? - Hunter S Thompson
I agree Steve, "Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression", if we think that nothing is sacred.
In this case it's a matter of stepping way over the line.
I think even the paparazzies will agree here.
That movie,( I've seen it), was bad. Really bad and just plain stupid!
Nobody should make such a childish and foul movie like this guy did, about any king, and get away with it.
But; Google has removed it.
It's wiped out of their inventory .
Why is still a ban in existence?
Revenge?
In this case it's a matter of stepping way over the line.
I think even the paparazzies will agree here.
That movie,( I've seen it), was bad. Really bad and just plain stupid!
Nobody should make such a childish and foul movie like this guy did, about any king, and get away with it.
But; Google has removed it.
It's wiped out of their inventory .
Why is still a ban in existence?
Revenge?
I intend to live forever - so far so good.
Just an interesting snippet written by Thais from that website I just linked to:
YouTube again?!? ‘Net censorship still illegal
May 11th, 2007
[FACT commentary]: To fully understand the ongoingYouTube controversy, we need to understand only that Google didn’t blink–Google called MICT’s bluff. If a court case were initiated by MICT in Thai Criminal Court, the one factor that the Ministry’s secret agenda must keep hidden from the Thai public would be revealed in the press: Internet censorship is still illegal in Thailand!
Please note that the new Computer-Related Crimes Act nowhere addresses the issue of censorship. Instead, the Act criminalises both ISPs and computer users. ISPs are responsible for all “illegalâ€
YouTube again?!? ‘Net censorship still illegal
May 11th, 2007
[FACT commentary]: To fully understand the ongoingYouTube controversy, we need to understand only that Google didn’t blink–Google called MICT’s bluff. If a court case were initiated by MICT in Thai Criminal Court, the one factor that the Ministry’s secret agenda must keep hidden from the Thai public would be revealed in the press: Internet censorship is still illegal in Thailand!
Please note that the new Computer-Related Crimes Act nowhere addresses the issue of censorship. Instead, the Act criminalises both ISPs and computer users. ISPs are responsible for all “illegalâ€
Who is the happier man, he who has braved the storm of life and lived or he who has stayed securely on shore and merely existed? - Hunter S Thompson
Here is more of the same "I rule the information that you don't need to see" series:
http://www.bangkokpost.com/topstories/t ... ?id=118677
http://www.bangkokpost.com/topstories/t ... ?id=118677
Say mai penrai live longer!
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The understudy
- Ace
- Posts: 1293
- Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2003 12:16 pm
- Location: Hua Hin, Bangkok, Berlin, L. A. rotating
Hallo Buksida
But Thais who live outside Thailand can do something about it.
By making it Public what kind semi draconian Censorship is going on in their Home country. and try to put pressure the leaders of their host countries to ask the Thai Junta Government questions.
This may be very risky for Thais who live abroad as they fear not being able to enter their Homeland again after they participated in such rallies.
But I think it's the only way Thais outside of Thailand who love Democracy and want the current Interim Government to correct the policies which lead to these Laws!
The Thai Community is very large in the US. They in turn can put a Petition to their Senator and they in turn can ask questions to the Government on what is going on.
The Interim Governemt may not like this but the constant pressure will in either way Democratise Thailand or put it further into Isolation by going their own way!
Your's the understudy!!!
But Thais who live outside Thailand can do something about it.
By making it Public what kind semi draconian Censorship is going on in their Home country. and try to put pressure the leaders of their host countries to ask the Thai Junta Government questions.
This may be very risky for Thais who live abroad as they fear not being able to enter their Homeland again after they participated in such rallies.
But I think it's the only way Thais outside of Thailand who love Democracy and want the current Interim Government to correct the policies which lead to these Laws!
The Thai Community is very large in the US. They in turn can put a Petition to their Senator and they in turn can ask questions to the Government on what is going on.
The Interim Governemt may not like this but the constant pressure will in either way Democratise Thailand or put it further into Isolation by going their own way!
Your's the understudy!!!
Last edited by The understudy on Fri May 11, 2007 10:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
In Love with Hua Hin since 19naughty9 and it ain't fading!!!
(My fable for All Things Japanese knows no boundaries!) Proud Student of Stamford University Hua Hin Campus from 1999 to 2004 (5th Batch of Graduates.)
“Once you survive Stamford U Hua Hin Campus only you can survive anything!!!”
(My fable for All Things Japanese knows no boundaries!) Proud Student of Stamford University Hua Hin Campus from 1999 to 2004 (5th Batch of Graduates.)
“Once you survive Stamford U Hua Hin Campus only you can survive anything!!!”
The understudy wrote:But Thais who live outside Thailand can do something about it.
By making it Public what kind semi draconian Censorship is going on in their Home country. and try to put pressure the leaders of their host countries to ask the Thai Junta Government questions.
This may be very risky for Thais who live abroad as they fear not being able to enter their Homeland again after they participated in such rallies.
But I think it's the only way Thais outside of Thailand who love Democracy and want the current Interim Government to correct the policies which lead to these Laws!
The Thai Community is very large in the US. They in turn can put a Petition to their Senator and they in turn can ask questions to the Government on what is going on.
The Interim Governemt may not like this but the constant pressure will in either way Democatise Thailand or put it further into Isolation by going their own way!it's own way!
You are the man!Who is the happier man, he who has braved the storm of life and lived or he who has stayed securely on shore and merely existed? - Hunter S Thompson
Norseman, I agree with you that the original video was a stupid and disrespectful thing to do; my post referring to the declaration of Human Rights was more in response to the musings from Guess on the technicalities of extraditing someone for such an offence. I wasn’t trying to defend the original action.Norseman wrote:I agree Steve, "Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression", if we think that nothing is sacred.
In this case it's a matter of stepping way over the line.
I think even the paparazzies will agree here.
That movie,( I've seen it), was bad. Really bad and just plain stupid!
Nobody should make such a childish and foul movie like this guy did, about any king, and get away with it.
But; Google has removed it.
It's wiped out of their inventory .
Why is still a ban in existence?
Revenge?
Steve; I understood your point of views and it was my stupid lack of knowledge in this language that led to the misunderstandings.
I'm sorry for that.
What I tried to say is: why is the website still blocked now when Google has removed the condescending material?
We know it's a big felony in this country to do the things in question, and we and everybody else must accept that.
Webmaster came up with the answer with his article in the Bangkok Post.
They want revenge and put the perpetrator(s) behind bars before they open You Tube in Thailand.
I'm sorry for that.
What I tried to say is: why is the website still blocked now when Google has removed the condescending material?
We know it's a big felony in this country to do the things in question, and we and everybody else must accept that.
Webmaster came up with the answer with his article in the Bangkok Post.
They want revenge and put the perpetrator(s) behind bars before they open You Tube in Thailand.
I intend to live forever - so far so good.