I love these members who criticise the Thais for being corrupt.
1. Not all of them are corrupt.
2. At least they are open about it.
Look at UK politics.
1. The number of MP,s that have directorships in companies just because of their position.
2. The number of MPs who have massive expense accounts some employing their wife as a secretary, or so as a researcher.
3 The large number of local councillors who claim large expenses
4. Regularly we here of councillors being prosecuted for bribes the latest is in Portsmouth. (These are the ones which are caught)
5 Not all of them are corrupt
6. The main difference is our politicians are more devious in hiding what they do.
Finally look at the massive pay rises and pensions they have voted their selves
Before you criticise Thailand look at what your own country is doing.
Corruption is bad any where but the Thais at least are open about it.
Not that that makes them any better
The answer is to have in all countries a strict control over what politicians receive and spend and why they have these directorship. It will not happen because they need to pass the law stopping them getting their perks
local election
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lindosfan1
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Woke up this morning breathing that's a good start to the day.
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dtaai-maai
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An impoverished President or Prime Minister, now that's an interesting thought...spitfire wrote:Fair point above, I suppose we are talking about Thailand as if it was a 'democracy', it's not, it's actually something that is called a 'plutocracy'. To save all from looking in a dictionary, it's a country that is openly run by the rich.
Anyone know of one? Anywhere?
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sandman67
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man oh man this ones got me scratching my head.....
That "its just accepted Thai business" is just the mindset that is messing Thailand up and holding it back! That is why the place is run by corrupt thieving lying "plutocrats" (one step forward please Messrs Samak, Taksin, et al...). It underpins the "keep em stupid, keep em poor" situation.
Corruption, whether open or behind closed doors is not acceptable in a democracy. The yellow and red card system is a sodding joke. Try sticking the corrupt in prison and taking all their money away boys....that might work a bit better.
And really.....calling y self a democracy when I can openly walk up and pay you to vote, virtually immune to prosecution, is just taking the p**s.
I agree that not all Thais or politicians here are corrupt. But if you accept or offer a bribe for a vote ... yes you are. Theres not much in life thats as black and white....
so what you are saying is it is ok to usurp the democratic process and allow lying thieving incompetent money grubbing scum (cos thats what they are) to steal elections as long as its done openly? Im not holding up the west as an example mate, but at least there if y get caught openly bribing voters with cash y get locked up.At least they are open about it.
That "its just accepted Thai business" is just the mindset that is messing Thailand up and holding it back! That is why the place is run by corrupt thieving lying "plutocrats" (one step forward please Messrs Samak, Taksin, et al...). It underpins the "keep em stupid, keep em poor" situation.
Corruption, whether open or behind closed doors is not acceptable in a democracy. The yellow and red card system is a sodding joke. Try sticking the corrupt in prison and taking all their money away boys....that might work a bit better.
And really.....calling y self a democracy when I can openly walk up and pay you to vote, virtually immune to prosecution, is just taking the p**s.
I agree that not all Thais or politicians here are corrupt. But if you accept or offer a bribe for a vote ... yes you are. Theres not much in life thats as black and white....
"Science flew men to the moon. Religion flew men into buildings."
"To sin by silence makes cowards of men."
"To sin by silence makes cowards of men."
sandman wrote:
All politicians are in it for what they can get, and will use whatever means they can to do so. OK, vote buying may not be openly carried out, but how many Western politicians totally deliver what they promise?
I honestly can't see much difference - Cash/Lies - I know which I'd rather have, and it isn't lies.
But its OK to get voted in to power in the West based on a manifesto that turns out to be a pack of liesso what you are saying is it is ok to usurp the democratic process and allow lying thieving incompetent money grubbing scum (cos thats what they are) to steal elections as long as its done openly? Im not holding up the west as an example mate, but at least there if y get caught openly bribing voters with cash y get locked up.
All politicians are in it for what they can get, and will use whatever means they can to do so. OK, vote buying may not be openly carried out, but how many Western politicians totally deliver what they promise?
I honestly can't see much difference - Cash/Lies - I know which I'd rather have, and it isn't lies.
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dtaai maai,
You scoundrel(in the politest way possible), the truth is always scoffed at by the masses. Look it up, I did. It's great here, but it is a 'plutocacy'. It's just few are aware of it.
Example,
Face for the Thai's is gained through riches, power, and how much influence they have over others. The average Thai man holds up the trophy of how many mistresses he has and makes it very public, he gains face from it, he's number one . In the UK and most of Europe, it still happens, but everyone is quiet about it, as if they are scared of being found out. They know they are doing something wrong, but try to hide it. This attitude can be equated to many other subjects(maybe just indifference).
A 'plutocracy' is a country that [b]OPENLY is run by the rich[/b]. I'm sure most countries are run by the rich, but it depends on how much contempt they have for what everyone thinks, in the UK you still have to be sneaky and keep people in the dark, then you get away with it. Here there is just a simple disregard for what anyone thinks.
You scoundrel(in the politest way possible), the truth is always scoffed at by the masses. Look it up, I did. It's great here, but it is a 'plutocacy'. It's just few are aware of it.
Example,
Face for the Thai's is gained through riches, power, and how much influence they have over others. The average Thai man holds up the trophy of how many mistresses he has and makes it very public, he gains face from it, he's number one . In the UK and most of Europe, it still happens, but everyone is quiet about it, as if they are scared of being found out. They know they are doing something wrong, but try to hide it. This attitude can be equated to many other subjects(maybe just indifference).
A 'plutocracy' is a country that [b]OPENLY is run by the rich[/b]. I'm sure most countries are run by the rich, but it depends on how much contempt they have for what everyone thinks, in the UK you still have to be sneaky and keep people in the dark, then you get away with it. Here there is just a simple disregard for what anyone thinks.
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lindosfan1
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corruption
Sandman
I did not state I agree with corruption, my point is what us/you the right to sound off about Thai politicians you shout about it here but did/do you shout about the corruption at home. NO like most of the British you aceot what is happening so why do you come here and criticise Thais by name.
It is wrong but make sure your doorstep is squeaky clean before you tell otheres theirs is dirty.
In my view there is far to much crictisms of Thais on this forum, it is their country let them rule.
I find some of the rants against Thais quite offensive. Especially if you said some of the things stated here in your own country you would be arrested.
I did not state I agree with corruption, my point is what us/you the right to sound off about Thai politicians you shout about it here but did/do you shout about the corruption at home. NO like most of the British you aceot what is happening so why do you come here and criticise Thais by name.
It is wrong but make sure your doorstep is squeaky clean before you tell otheres theirs is dirty.
In my view there is far to much crictisms of Thais on this forum, it is their country let them rule.
I find some of the rants against Thais quite offensive. Especially if you said some of the things stated here in your own country you would be arrested.
Woke up this morning breathing that's a good start to the day.
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sandman67
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Lindos
ermmm.....sorry mate but you are wrong.
However...as I said, corruption is wrong whether behind closed doors or open.
Y see... I'm an equal opportunities hatemonger.
what I am is saddened when: my missus has some trouble reading her own language because she was criminally let down by her education system, and when the average Thai reads 6 pages of text a year; When her village roads are like the Somme: when the local hospital is inadequately funded.: When her mum and dad and village family have to put up with regular power and water cuts because the system is screwed by corruption and incompetence.
what I am is confused when whilst this goes on the only place I have ever seen a real Labourghini being driven is in BKK.
what I am is angry (somewhat) when I hear of overt political corruption even in local bloody elections to the council.
and what I will always say to any Thai who tells me they sold a vote is that they have betrayed their own country.
[/code]
ermmm.....sorry mate but you are wrong.
...yes. I do. I hate the UK and everything it has come to stand for....with a passion. Its a stinking dungheap sinking in its own pool of apathy and political correctness. There are a handful of good politicians....the rest are lying self serving scum. Gone are the days of empire and Bevin.do you shout about the corruption at home.
However...as I said, corruption is wrong whether behind closed doors or open.
Y see... I'm an equal opportunities hatemonger.
- no I wouldn't.....perhaps if I slandered or libeled someone I would be potentially liable under civil law to their suing me (step up Messrs Archer and Hamilton you lying cheating thieving swivvely eyed little scumbags) but arrest.....no. See I just did it again...ooops.if you said some of the things stated here in your own country you would be arrested
what I am is saddened when: my missus has some trouble reading her own language because she was criminally let down by her education system, and when the average Thai reads 6 pages of text a year; When her village roads are like the Somme: when the local hospital is inadequately funded.: When her mum and dad and village family have to put up with regular power and water cuts because the system is screwed by corruption and incompetence.
what I am is confused when whilst this goes on the only place I have ever seen a real Labourghini being driven is in BKK.
what I am is angry (somewhat) when I hear of overt political corruption even in local bloody elections to the council.
and what I will always say to any Thai who tells me they sold a vote is that they have betrayed their own country.
[/code]"Science flew men to the moon. Religion flew men into buildings."
"To sin by silence makes cowards of men."
"To sin by silence makes cowards of men."
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dtaai-maai
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Spitfire, I'm suspicious (and made so by the 'scoundrel' remark) - do I know you...?
Anyway, I wasn't questioning your plutocracy claim, it simply made me think. No more, no less. And now I'm thinking a bit more. And it's not really a response to either of your posts, just a mild rant on politics. For 'he' read 'he/she'...
If you extend it from national leaders to any politician, or to any 'official' subject to election, it's probably not that surprising. How many upstanding, self-respecting, middle class, self-righteous, self-absorbed (I think that probably covers the majority of the populations of most democratic countries...) are going to vote for a poorly dressed, ugly, uncharasmatic person with imperfect teeth, who lives in a council flat (are there any left?), even if (or perhaps, 'especially because') he speaks his mind, and what he says is true, intelligent and sensible?
It seems to me that the requirements of a good politician are:
the ability to listen
altruism (genuine)
intelligence, imagination and original thoughts
a genuine desire to improve the lives of everyone around them
the ability to think long term
the ability to delegate appropriately
(ok, called away from this for an hour, so let's wrap it up, to everyone's relief...)
the requirements of a successful politician ANYWHERE are:
self interest
money
power
the ability to think only of how to get re-elected
the will to climb over your dying mother to reach out to a sponsor
imageimageimage
Rant over for now
Anyway, I wasn't questioning your plutocracy claim, it simply made me think. No more, no less. And now I'm thinking a bit more. And it's not really a response to either of your posts, just a mild rant on politics. For 'he' read 'he/she'...
If you extend it from national leaders to any politician, or to any 'official' subject to election, it's probably not that surprising. How many upstanding, self-respecting, middle class, self-righteous, self-absorbed (I think that probably covers the majority of the populations of most democratic countries...) are going to vote for a poorly dressed, ugly, uncharasmatic person with imperfect teeth, who lives in a council flat (are there any left?), even if (or perhaps, 'especially because') he speaks his mind, and what he says is true, intelligent and sensible?
It seems to me that the requirements of a good politician are:
the ability to listen
altruism (genuine)
intelligence, imagination and original thoughts
a genuine desire to improve the lives of everyone around them
the ability to think long term
the ability to delegate appropriately
(ok, called away from this for an hour, so let's wrap it up, to everyone's relief...)
the requirements of a successful politician ANYWHERE are:
self interest
money
power
the ability to think only of how to get re-elected
the will to climb over your dying mother to reach out to a sponsor
imageimageimage
Rant over for now
This is the way
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lindosfan1
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election
Sandman
I take your point completely that is good criticism in your last post.
I agree with what you say. It is the same in the UK the poor are getting poorer and the rich are getting richer.
Corruption is world wide and it only benefits a small minority.
Which leads back to my previous post when I said a law should be passed making all financial dealings including directorships accountable.
This does not happen anywhere, it is supposed to happen in the UK but it is rarely used.
One more point I do not hate the UK it is my country but the present labour government have done more damage to the working man than Maggie Thatcher did.
I take your point completely that is good criticism in your last post.
I agree with what you say. It is the same in the UK the poor are getting poorer and the rich are getting richer.
Corruption is world wide and it only benefits a small minority.
Which leads back to my previous post when I said a law should be passed making all financial dealings including directorships accountable.
This does not happen anywhere, it is supposed to happen in the UK but it is rarely used.
One more point I do not hate the UK it is my country but the present labour government have done more damage to the working man than Maggie Thatcher did.
Woke up this morning breathing that's a good start to the day.
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dtaai-maai
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dtaai-maai
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No it wasn't - I just hadn't realised quite how much water had passed under the bridge - I wanted to ask...
who is Carter Brown, and what did he mean? (You don't necessarily need to answer part 2 of the question, niggle!)niggle wrote:In the words of Carter Brown "aye, well erm ....."
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