Business Ethics.

[kendo]

From another thread, it has been said that business ethics in Hua Hin, have been on the decline with scumbag farangs and corruption, can anyone tell me more about this, i do understand that when a place like HH grows at such a fast rate that it will attract some less genuine people, and some more established expats will not like the changes in town or some of the new competition,i am very intrested on reading your rants, storys and experiances.

[Super Joe]

This one's gonna be good .....

Personally I don't have a problem with ethnics.
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[huahinsimon]

This one's gonna be good .....

Personally I don't have a problem with ethnics.
.

Joe, you edited out " HHS come on down... " didnt know you Brits watched yankee TV game shows

It was a better opening line, imho.

as for yur secondline I think your fingers type faster than your brain coud think.

read it again. ethnics?? or ethics. either way I think you dont have a problem, in the positive sense. Ie, you'r a straight shooter. Its guys like the salad and the water monger who have the problem or am I wrong?

In the closed thread you said I could have fixed the problem for 300 baht. On the surface, through the picture,that may have looked to be true. But if you will look closely at the bucket you will see on the left lip another aparatus that was suppose to operate a pump for Peter's home up hill. The string rotted in the sun and the pump became inoperable but Peter has forbidden me to come on his property where the pump is located. Also out of sight is his suction line which also goes over the tank lip, I almost sure. so more than just one 300 baht adjustment is needed to make the lid fit somewhat tight.
And additional fact of which you are not aware is that the developers water delivery system was as screwed up as a soup sandwich. He had one pump pushing water into one READ ONE 1 1/4" blue pvc line which had five splices which took the water to five homes. Now I ask you Joe, who has no problem with ethnics or ethics, is that acceptable. picture attached.

When all of us home owner were "fighting" for water from this one piple, I decided to plumb in a separate gravity feed line to my own home. I got the developer's permission. I put in the line. It cost me 5000 baht. I didnt ask mr water monger for a satang becaus i knew it was fruitless to do so and would only "anger him" every one warns us. do not "anger him"

So, buddy, not only did I spend much more than 300baht to fix the problem. When his equipment broke down again and he did nothing to fix it for two weeks, i checked out the tank and saw what state it had fallen into. You saw the pictures. I took a water sample which was determined to be contaminated by the muni water dept., I told him and His response was to send me a phony bill for 8772 baht or 135/m3 with demand for payment in 48 hours. Of course I objected, just what he wanted he wrote in an email to someone he considered a friend but was also a friend of mine. He wrote he hope I would refuse to pay and he could cut me off PERMANENTLY. CUNNING GUY THIS!! I did and he did.

Now that you know "the whole story" what say you? Whose obligation is it to mitigate the problem? Am I required to also pay for a retro fit for this piece of shizer? The float value doesnt work, the pump doesnt work much of the time.

You have no problem with ethics, Joe. you be the judge. Where does Mr Developers ethical responsibility kick in?

As your opening line said, Joe "This ones gonna be good...

awaiting your ethical response

HHS

[DawnHRD]

HHS,

Lev has already closed one thread of yours about this matter. This is not HHAD's problem. Please solve this problem with your developer without using HHAD as your soapbox. No more about this matter on here, please. From anyone. Thank you.

[huahinsimon]

I am not the OP and I do not know the Op. This is not "a thread of mine." It is a thread on ethics and I think it would do HHAD well to allow it to continue. This is the value of HHAD. Please note NO UNSUBSTANTIATED claims are being made. All claims are documented and photographed. The bills, the water system. That was one of the criteria demanded by HHAD way back when. SUBSTANTIATE. I am complying. It is a breech of confidence to now state, HHS you substantiate TOO WELL. Or am I wrong

[matthew80]

Have to agree with HHS on this. He is providing demonstrable evidence in the form of pictures. Seems harsh to lock a thread that probably most everyone will find quite interesting to follow.

[Jockey]

I think a big problem with business ethics over here is the lack of regulation. Let me talk about the property sector since I'm involved. When foreigners first come over here they can be presented with a very civilised environment. They may be staying at places like the Hilton or the Sofitel and everything seems fairly similar to back home. They may choose to visit an estate agent who look on the face of it to be respectable. From there they are taken to see a smiling friendly developer. By all means the agent could be one of the most honest trustworthy person they have ever met and the developer's friendly smile genuine, but there again the facts might be the opposite. Back in their own country, agents and developers have to work under a code of conduct and the ability for them to operate is strictly regulated. Over here there is no, or very little code of conduct, and almost no regulation, so charletons have been allowed to flourish.

I've been here for about 7 years and these that got away with things in the past, are starting to find these "things" are coming back to haunt them in a way they never imagined possible. Karma exists over here - not regulation.

I would also add I am shareholder in A Real Estate business but I do not wish to gain advantage or disadvantage in any way from posting on HHAD. Sometimes I'm right and sometimes I'm wrong just like anyone else. Most agents and developers I know are very nice people. Its the few who think its a good idea to run away with customers money, promise to build houses and don't, build shoddy homes, break promises, tell lies about company set ups and leases, pretend to be experts, hire lawyers in cahoots with them, con and scam, get in with local politicians to gain power then abuse their power etc etc. Its these small group of people that gives the property business a bad name, but for every 100 good experiences, people are only interested in the odd bad one.

[T.I.G.R.]

I can't go to bed with out vetting this idea I have......

Because of the lateness of the hour and the nascent formation of this idea I'll try just to put it in broad strokes for what I hope will turn into meaningful conversation and action.

It seems many agree there are problems with both builders and buyers over construction techniques, personal ethics, etc. and we all agree there isn't currently a reasonable solution anyone has thought of yet.

What if there were a voluntary body of "certified" building inspectors who could be hired by either builder or buyer to inspect and report on buildings either in progress or completed. Certainly there would have to be ground rules established but if the "inspections" were legitimized by a certifying body of either a building/trades association or a carefully selected group of licensed contractors from other countries (proof of capability) and there were a standard format applied to said inspections so only the basic and most important issues were covered, ie:

Structural integrity of the foundation and cement work
Electrical and Plumbing systems
Sewer and Storm Drainage systems
Lot grading, drainage
Fencing, sidewalk and street construction

In other words, a standard form used by everyone........

I'm not a builder but I know enough to understand that where I came from inspections were held at regular intervals during construction to cover these important issues, and said inspections took a reasonable amount of time to complete and allowed builders to abide easily to codes.
We don't have official codes but nothing says the building community can't make up their own.

If such a system were set up, the building community, including real estate sales offices and developers could promulgate the "rules of the road" to both the buying and building parties.....how many times do we hear or read people asking where to go for advice. If the inspections were done from a standard format and by independent parties paid for their services to establish a base line for a building's efficacy a lot of problems discussed in these forums would be prevented.

Imagine if you were buying a house and could have someone inspect said house to tell you if these basic things were done to some sort of acceptable standard.....what a relief that would be.

Imagine if you are a builder and can assure your buyers that you've complied to some sort of industry standard for the Hua Hin area.....a great sales tool.

I hope this is enough to get some sort of project started.....I for one would be happy to sit on a steering committee if asked to participate....I'm a CPA by trade but I know enough to help draft a basic plan and/or inspection guidelines and have had three homes built for me over the years with some minimal involvement in the process.

*************

[huahinsimon]

Back in their own country, agents and developers have to work under a code of conduct and the ability for them to operate is strictly regulated.

Over here there is no, or very little code of conduct, and almost no regulation, so charletons have been allowed to flourish.
Its these small group of people that gives the property business a bad name, but for every 100 good experiences, people are only interested in the odd bad one.

Jockey,

I respectfully disagree. People are interested in good experiences. For example I am having a carport/terrace combination built by Sawaeng and Sons Construction Co Ltd., who recently opened an office in HH. I selected them because I was told by Peter Kraus of Engel and Voelkers of his good experience with them in building his home in Springfield. He showed me a slide show of the construction of his home and the bills of material with just about every nut, bolt and screw listed, the price charged, their 15% profit margin, the Vat, so at the end you had a totally transparent (or as transparent as possible) picture of what you were getting. They gave me drawings and a timetable for the construction. You could go to Home Pro or other if you wanted to check on the price if you questioned anything. Sawaeng had also recently remodeled what is now Corner 84 restaurant so I checked out their work there. I got 4 bids. Sawaeng was the only company that provided a complete bill of materials. Their price was 1/2 as much as the highest bidder!!

The good experiences related by the users of Sawaeng and their professionalism in preparing a bid prompted me to give them the job. They are working as I write. I am totally satisfied to date and am sure they will be getting plenty of business through our recommendations.

So people are not ONLY interested in the odd bad experience. They are very interested in the good ones. A problem is many people do not post about their good experiences and when they do the post has little life. But when someone has a horror story to tell, it takes on a life of its own and can continue for days. The presentation of both types of experiences are essential for people making buying experiences and grateful we are that HHAD provides a forum for the airing of both types of experiences. Unfortunately it's the negative that dominates and gives the false impression that the dodgy dominates in HH.

HHS

[Wanderlust]

hhs,
Thank you for that positive contribution! Out of interest, do Sawaeng and Sons bring their own water too?

[sargeant]

HHS I have seen your pictures I can’t work out if they are photos or Picassos they sure aint Rembrandts his work looks like a woman, Picassos don’t look a lot different to your plumbing.
However I do think your oversight was lacking during construction
1. Always check the bricklayer has a spirit level
2. check he also has a plumb bob
3. Buy him a straight stick (bamboo has limitations)
4. Take the 4 bottles of Loa khow out of his bag and don’t let him have it back until the wall is straight

Have you considered your wall and Plumbing could be a huge windfall advertised as the leaning wall of (wherever) adorned with Picassos sculptures in plastic you could raise enough cash to drill for oil let alone water.
I was also wondering was it the blue plumbing or the yellow plumbing you paid
5000 Bt for never mind whatever it was methinks you was done like a kipper

P.S. your wall looks as dangerous as the water.

Best of luck anyway and try (hard I know) to keep a sense of humor
I am taking on an international bank myself at the moment:guns:

[kendo]

HHS,Nice one, its good to balence things allways good to here good experiances, but i bet there will be a few eye openers that forum members can learn by.

[Super Joe]

Ethnics

so more than just one 300 baht adjustment is needed

Oh don't do it then. Complaining about it for the next 5 year will be much more productive.


Simon, what is that 6ft wide x 3ft high bit of cardboard hanging underneath your window ?

I just can't see how you are normal.
.

[huahinsimon]

hhs,
Thank you for that positive contribution! Out of interest, do Sawaeng and Sons bring their own water too?

yes, they do.

HHS

[huahinsimon]

However I do think your oversight was lacking during construction
1. Always check the bricklayer has a spirit level
2. check he also has a plumb bob
3. Buy him a straight stick (bamboo has limitations)
4. Take the 4 bottles of Loa khow out of his bag and don’t let him have it back until the wall is straight

Have you considered your wall and Plumbing could be a huge windfall advertised as the leaning wall of (wherever) adorned with Picassos sculptures in plastic you could raise enough cash to drill for oil let alone water.
I was also wondering was it the blue plumbing or the yellow plumbing you paid
5000 Bt for never mind whatever it was methinks you was done like a kipper

P.S. your wall looks as dangerous as the water.

Best of luck anyway and try (hard I know) to keep a sense of humor
I am taking on an international bank myself at the moment:guns:

Hi Sarge,

Don't you think it was the developers oversight that was lacking. After all the Leaning Wall of Picasso (keeping a sense of humor ) is the original build and encloses the developers well which is a good 50 meters,two lots, away from my home and was built by his team.

Neither the yellow electrical conduit nor the Blue Picasso (I love it, Sarge, ) was what I paid 5000 baht for. That is the "before" picture of the spagetti pipeing through which the developer, whom Super Joe describes as a no-nonsense guy and one of the biggest developers in this area, tried to force enough water to service 5 homes. We paid him north of 50 million baht in total for the homes. and Yup, discounting the value of the art work, I agree, we was done like a kipper!

And sharp eyes Sarge, you picked out that the wall has no column or footing supporting it. Also, but not visible, no rebar tie in to other walls or the cement floor of the well "room." It just ends atop a row of cement blocks a foot or two deep in the dirt. It will be falling this rainy season as another wall fell last year. Someone opined, you get what you pay for here in Thailand> You be the judge.

HHS