Life in Thailand Poll No.4 (Expectations)

[Spitfire]

How did your expectations of living here 'mate up' with reality?

Was it the relief of being released from the situation wherever you came from that gave you euphoria on arrival and then the shine wore off?

Or was it an educational experience ending in relief from finding yourself released from the constrains and, often unrealistic, social expectations of the country from whence you came.

Perhaps you just enjoyed it while the shine lasted and then moved on.

Or are you just about to start the adventure now, despite visiting many times, and bite the bullet and 'go for it', at whatever age?

Did the expectations you had on arrival match up or where they naively misguided?

How has the expectations vs reality equation worked out?

Perhaps you've been living here and moved on but have sworn to return eventually.

What's the score ladies and gents?

Have put 2 choices as some may find the answers overlap.

For me, just glad to get out of 'Dodge' and had few expectations, however, I was a young wiper-snapper of 26, so might not be the same as others.



Edit - Poll question adjustment......

[hhfarang]

naively misguided

definitely!

I got off on the wrong foot immediately with two and a half years of build problems, and have pretty much been on that same (wrong) foot ever since with other problems.

I would have been happier, healthier, and (much) better off financially if I had stayed where I was doing what I was doing instead of letting myself get talked into the "pipe dreams" of living in paradise (which I realized too late, I actually left to come here!).

[STEVE G]

I'm in the "other" category.
I've been based in Hua Hin for over eight years now but working away and that'll most likely be the case for many years to come.
Before this I was working in Indonesia for six years and I was looking for somewhere in Asia that was a bit easier to live in as an expat and for me it has worked well.
I've been together with my Thai partner for many years now, we have a house and small farm in Issan that came from her mother and have now almost finished a house in Hua Hin after renting for the rest of the time and I've never really had any major problems.
One of the big advantages for me is that you can come and go into Thailand on tourist visas for up to six months of the year without any bother whatsoever and I've never once been asked at the airport what I'm doing which wasn't the case in Indonesia.
Over the next few years I hope to increase the amount of time I spend in Thailand but it'll be many years before I can think of staying there full time, if ever. That doesn't actually bother me too much as I like the variety of living between Asia and Europe.

[Korkenzieher]

I think the one observation I would make is that while I enjoy living in Thailand, and in Asia in general, there are some things which I have come to realise. Thailand increasingly looks to me either to be a younger man's party or an older man's retirement place. I fall in the middle, and have felt sometimes that there needs to be more (to do). I don't think I am quite comfortable enough yet with the pipe and slippers to settle into middle aged torpor, and many of the things I would want to do are either not allowed (through employment restrictions) or not advisable (through legal vaguaries pertaining to business ownership and intellectual property rights). I don't think there have been too many surprises - other than those relating to the continued ability of locals to shoot themselves in the collective foot.

[migrant]

We are still about 3 years from moving over (depending on the stupid politicians and economy). I've done a lot of reading, and on our trips we usually roam a lot to see life in other areas.

Since this is about expectations I figured I'd toss mine in.

I've worked very hard from a young age, often 2 jobs and school at the same time. Currently my business is high stress, and for 4 months a year, about 100+ hours a week.

So I am looking, not for pipe and slippers like Korkenzieher mentions, but for a affordable retirement.

What do I expect?

1) On the personal side more time for swimming, exercise, reading, and general puttering around.
2) From Thailand I expect an affordable home without the $5,000 usd per year property taxes I pay
3) Our budget, and plans, are to use Thailand as a base for travel around that part of the world. At 54 now that should help keep us busy

What don't I expect?

1) A perfect world, it doesn't exist
2) Perfect service, I don't get it here, why should I expect it in Thailand.
3) A cheap, cheap place to live, affordable, yes, dirt cheap, no

All these forums, and discussions, sure help me set my expectations, so we shall see!

[PeteC]

Hard for me to answer so I checked 'other'. Thailand has been a major part of my life for 42 years now so the expectation era is long past. I can say though I'm disappointed in the way the country has developed, or hasn't developed. I'm not talking about modernization, but the level of corruption is worse than 42 years ago. The class divide is worse, and they still react rather than be proactive with planning. Of course the population is probably about 50-40% more now than then. (interesting if someone has the stat of what it was in 1969)....communications are different so nowadays everything is in your face daily. Perhaps things were just as bad or worse back then, but I simply didn't experience it. Pete

[PeteC]

To answer my own question....Thailand's population in 1969 was 36.174 million. The end of 2009, 67.764. Pete

http://www.google.com/publicdata/explor ... population

[Korkenzieher]

I'll add something.

There is a resentment now that wasn't there before. It isn't obvious a lot of the time, but it is there. When I first washed up here in 1993, you were always seen as a welcome outsider; a pleasant oddity; something to be happy about.

Thailand is much wealthier than it was then, but progressively there seems to have been a move towards a more dangerous "here's another mark" mentality. But it is more complex than that. The simmering resentment one occasionally sees in the eyes of the working class Thai male, for example, just wasn't there in the previous generation.

Equally, I note a desparate race to be part of the conspicuous wealth paradigm (even as its sun sets in the west!). We haven't outstayed our welcome as such but I suspect that tourism, the internet and other media have left some of the Thai feeling disenfranchised and it probably feels natural to blame the westerners. It isn't an emotion unique to Thailand.

I suspect that as almost any country industrialises it goes through the same process to some degree. But for example, as land is taken to build hotels and resorts where the locals can only aspire to work, an age of comparative innocence has corroded away and the dispossessed can only look on. Where once they were hosts to the curious, they are now servants to them. They can only decide whether to blame other Thais, or the westerners that gave it cause to happen.

Some will blame us when we come here and buy (by the local standard) luxurious lifestyles; and they will blame us when we don't come here or don't spend enough. They have no other choice. They are fairly sure where the blame lies. And they are wrong. And that is the sad thing really - it is an externalisation of responsibility for their problems. And the worst thing is that in many ways it is the social apartheid of the Thai system that has created it - even encouraged it.

[dtaai-maai]

^^ Very interesting, Korky. Not sure I entirely agree, but definitely food for thought.

[migrant]

I agree pretty much with Korkenzieher's post.

I think in most areas where you have a large influx of tourists that can afford considerably more than the residents, you get a lot of resentment.

I've seen it in many countries in Central America, but even in the states. I used to live in Maine, a beautiful state that was used by wealthier New York, and Massachusetts residents as a vacation spot. Many of them purchased land, and vacation homes, at silly prices that the Mainers could not afford. The vacationers also demanded a different level of restaurants that most Mainers could not afford to eat at.

The vacationers money was always welcome, but a popular bumper sticker echoed the local sentiment.

"Tourist go home, but leave your money"

Another popular variation was

"Tourist go home, but leave your daughter"

[margaretcarnes]

A lot of good points there by Korky. Pete is probably one of - if not the - longest established expat on here, and arriving in the late 60's wasn't too long after the first real influx of expats in the 50's. (Other than the much earlier settlers who were welcomed such as the Portuguese Pete.)
But the 50's influx, enabled by easer air travel, tended to be the very well heeled and famous. Plus the missionaries - who were generally accepted. The doctors and ambassadors who were needed (and rewarded.)
They mixed with the Thai Hi-So who had no reason to feel threatened by them or resent them - they were bringing valuable skills to the country and promoting tourism. They were polite and controllable, and, apart from the missionaries, probably saw very little outside of Bangkok. More importantly the lower class Thais saw very little of them.
Quite a different picture to todays mass tourism. I don't think though that the class divide will be much different now to 45 years ago. The HiSo are maybe more so - but the working class Thai people are much more exposed to the the service industry now and yes, there is a sense of resentment. Unfortunately the ongoing lack of decent education results in poorer Thais still believing that anyone who can afford to fly is loaded. And the state of some tourists doesn't help the image either.

[johnnyk]

My 2 satang is that though we are perceived as zillionaires by many Thais they don't realize how hard many falangs work back home. And they can't comprehend that some pay huge taxes right off the top, 40-50% in some cases/countries.
Here in Canada one research institute calculates "tax freedom day" which is the day of the year when you have earned enough to pay all the many taxes westerners endure and your income starts to go into your pocket. In Canada that day is now sometime in July.

[HHADFan]

I have to echo Migrant on the resentment within tourist areas. I lived in Santa Fe, NM for about nine years and the local sentiment was about the same as he described in Maine, especially after the Californians 'discovered' Santa Fe. I've seen and felt it here in Hua Hin, but the Thais I've met outside of the main tourist destinations have almost always been friendly, kind, and curious.

[margaretcarnes]

No the majority of Thais certainly don't understand the amount of work needed in the West to earn an honest buck - or the amount of taxes paid. The very concept of taxation at source is pretty much unknown to them. But on the plus side there are still plenty of Thais in HH who have lived and traded there for years and who accept farang without question. Once they get to know you they never ever forget, and will even confide about how they treat tourists differently.
Build up a good relationship with any Thai person over time and they will reward you with friendship and trust - no problem - but they will still try to rip off a passing tourist at any opportunity. ( And if you compliment them in their efforts you earn double Brownie Points and a bit more discount!)
As with anywhere I think the answer in HH is to try to use small local traders - get known - gain trust.

[jimmy40]

Well i ticked other, becouse of all my reading and talking to other Australians about how cheap everything was. Well they had not been here for 5 years. So i was supprissed at some costs. Sure a house costs 1/3 or 1/4 of Australia, but if you don't know what you are doing a hamburger at some of the bigger hotels is still 300 baht, untill you learn about the real good little take aways etc. As for being ripped off it has happened many times to me. I now find that my long standing friends here are very cautious when dealing with thai people. I am now becomming the same. Thats a bit sad really, i blame tv for this. As you allways see the Thai soaps in nice cars, nice clothes,living this lavish life. So thats what they all want. As for above posts they are shooting them selves in the foot, as i see less and less people comming here in the future, as the word spreads of corruption, lying girls, and generally trying to be ripped off, thats my 2 setang worth