Foreigners can lead by example

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PeteC
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Foreigners can lead by example

Post by PeteC »

From the Bangkok Post. Concise, to the point, and written by a Thai believe it or not, for sure not educated here. Business theme but could apply to many aspects of life here. Pete :cheers:
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Foreigners can lead by example
PORNNALAT PRACHYAKORN

Foreign businesses should help Thailand to improve business practices by serving as role models in doing business based on human skills, according to Pamela Hongsakul, managing director of Hongsakul Media Ltd.

Mrs Pamela, the publisher of Law Magazine, said in a presentation to the British Chamber of Commerce that Thai society, whether in politics or business, recruited people based on friendships and connections rather than based on skill or value to company and country.

Foreign business leaders should help change this practice by serving as role models in their own companies. "Show the Thai people how this is done," said Ms Pamela, a cross-cultural observer who works with key leaders in the media and marketing fields.

She also said that foreign firms should be encouraged to run their businesses in Thailand in the same way they would do in their own home countries, including following the rules and avoiding discrimination.

Thailand's business sector was not competitive in the global market, she said, because leaders did not challenge staff to overcome sabai-sabai tendencies.

"Thai people have got used to relaxing under coconut trees and enjoying plenty of water, fish and sun," she said.

The first thing to be done, she suggested, was to get rid of the culture of fear in the society. Thai people are afraid to stand up and state their needs to people in authority since they are afraid of losing their pleasure.

"We should adopt more principles and not focus on the point of reward," she said.

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And...another closely related article of the same theme.

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Bridging THE GAP

Using the Socratic Method
KRIENGSAK NIRATPATTANASAI

'Khun Kriengsak, how should I coach my Thai team?" David asks me in our first coaching session. He's been on the job for a month in charge of his company's Thai office.

"Things seemed to be okay until my direct report came to ask my opinion," he says. "I'll give you an example. This morning, Khun Somchai, the director of sales, came to see me.

"He told me, 'David, we have a problem. Our sales revenue year to date is far below the target. What do you think I should do?' So, I asked him back, 'What do you think?'

"He said, 'I don't know. That's why I came to see you.' Then he left the room with an embarrassed look on his face."

"David, why do you think Khun Somchai behaved like that?" I ask.

"I guess he expected to get an answer from me."

"I think so. You're his first expat boss. He was used to getting answers from a poo-yai (a senior person). When we were growing up, our parents didn't ask us, 'What do you think?' When he went to school, we were taught to memorise information. We were not trained to apply critical thinking skills. When Khun Somchai had worked here with Thai bosses for the past 10 years, his bosses never asked his input. They gave answers. That's how he's conditioned."

"What should I do?"

"What do you think?"

"I need to unlearn him first, don't I?"

"That's a good idea. How do you plan to do that?"

"I think I'll tell him that from now on I will use questions to coach him. So, the next time he comes to see me with a problem, he should prepare some alternative solutions for discussion."

"That's a good start. What is the benefit for him? In the old system he didn't think that way. It became quite sabai (comfortable) for him that he was freed from that responsibility. Now you are pulling him out of that comfort zone. Furthermore, if he has to think about solutions, he has to accountable for them. This is a big burden for him.

"What's in it for him to change? He has to weigh the new way versus the old way."

"Khun Kriengsak, here are the benefits," says David, as he lists the ways Somchai may be able to develop:

If he has a problem and he has to prepare some solutions prior to meeting me, it helps him to understand the situation much better. Hence he will be getting better at his work.

He will learn more by trying to think about solutions.

He is close to the problem. He has much better ideas about the solutions than me. Hence, the chance of solving the problem is higher.

"As far as accountability, is concerned, I have to explain to him that is is part of his key performance indicators (KPI)," David concludes.

"That's great," I say in encouragement. "This approach to coaching by questioning goes back a long way. It was adapted from Socrates, the Greek philosopher (495-399 BC). Socrates' Way by Ronald Gross traces the beginnings of the famous Socratic Method. Socrates was a man who asked questions. 'He does not offer us his insights, conclusions, or tenets. Rather, he interrogates us about ours - and provokes us to think things through, consider alternatives, and sometimes make surprising discoveries,' the author writes."

"For most Thais who have not been trained in analytical or critical thinking skills, we feel uncomfortable. When something is new we are scared. How will you make Khun Somchai less scared?" I ask, directing a Socratic inquiry to David.

"After I tell him that I will use this approach, and also tell him about the benefits for him, I will show empathy to him by saying, 'Khun Somchai, this is a new way of working for you. You might feel a bit uncomfortable. I do understand. But I want you to try."'

"Good. David, usually when you ask his opinion, he might have some ideas in mind. But he may be afraid of losing face in front of you by offering a poor answer. Or he may feel you might look down at him if he shows bad judgment. When you start using this method, you might need to give him a lot of encouragement. You might want to say. 'Khun Somchai, this is just brainstorming, there is no right or wrong answer. Let's try to come up with some solutions.'

"For some people, giving a spontaneous answer in front of the boss for the first time might be hard. If you notice that he's stuck or silent the first time, you might allow him to prepare himself first by saying. 'You may need some time to gather more data. Why don't you come back in an hour?"'
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Post by Spitfire »

Well, ideally, great. But when you look at it in the cold light of the day, not very realistic in the current business/any environment here. This is much easier said than done, especially when just you're commenting from a 'cross-cultural' quango. Change needs to come from within the Thais as example is unlikely to work.

From an idealistic point-of-view, OK, sounds good, but to get even a mild set of results from example would require 'divine intervention'. Couldn't find the cynical emoticon.

However, it is interesting to hear this coming from a Thai.
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Post by hhfarang »

In my very humble opinion, one of the things that holds this country back as well as causes problems in many other Asian countries is the traditional cultural concept of "face", as in losing face, or causing someone else to lose face.

You can't accomplish anything in the business world if you are not willing to be embarrassed (or admit you are wrong) once in a while or embarrass someone else (by telling them they are wrong) once in a while.

I equate it to too much political correctness in western societies and too much of anything is bad. :roll:
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Post by PeteC »

spitfire wrote:Well, ideally, great. But when you look at it in the cold light of the day, not very realistic in the current business/any environment here. This is much easier said than done, especially when just you're commenting from a 'cross-cultural' quango. Change needs to come from within the Thais as example is unlikely to work.

From an idealistic point-of-view, OK, sounds good, but to get even a mild set of results from example would require 'divine intervention'. Couldn't find the cynical emoticon.

However, it is interesting to hear this coming from a Thai.
You're right. My great Grandchildren 50 years from now could be reading the same articles. It all needs to start in the primary years of school. Pete :cheers:
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Post by Spitfire »

You just took it up to the next step prcscct and mentioned the need for it to change at primary school and continue onwards to alter almost anything. Education is what it all boils down to. We all know what a mess that is. This department of government is very reluctant to any meddling/change/enlightenment etc, which is where the problem ultimately lies.

Agree 100% :cheers:
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Foreigners can lead by example

Post by margaretcarnes »

Interesting topic. Yes, I think it will take a complete change in teaching methods to empower pupils to ask questions, and to question established doctrines. It would need tutors who can actually handle such new methods, who can overcome their own cultural norms, where the older person knows best and shouldn't be questionned. In fact it would challenge the very roots of Thai society and the respect for elders which they hold dear.
The change might gradually come about, but at what cost?
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foreigners can lead by example

Post by clive »

Why change the way Thai people do things? They seem quite happy with the way things are.
But why not try to use some of their ideas and practices, many of them are actually quite good. If you run a business and have staff maybe you should take a look at the way they do things. They probably want to be told what to do because that is what they expect, so no problem. Ok a lot of Thai people do not want to change, we have to accept that, it is the same everywhere in the world and do not forget they usually only see Farangh when they are on holiday, sitting under a parasol!
But many Thai people are capable of taking responsibility and making decisions but do not know how to or have not been allowed to.
Maybe it is us who need to change, we need to learn how to delegate in a new way, not talking down to them and expecting them to understand straight away but taking time explaining that we wish this to be done for a reason.
We should try teaching them to question our actions, each and every day they now ask me why I have done something, no big deal, then when you question their actions it is not quite such a shock, they think about the situation and most times answer reasonably (unlike me).
The one thing that Thai people appear not been taught to deal with is criticism, when we criticize anyone we should include a reason.
Losing face is purely an excuse to hide behind, get rid of that notion and Thai people, especially the younger ones, can and regularly do open their minds and start looking at things and acting in a more open manner, they start making decisions and quite readily accept responsibility. They have to learn that making a mistake is normal, except of course for me and I never make a mistake!
The joining of their culture and ours can be of great benefit to a business if it is carried out in a thoughtful way, it has only taken me 4 years to work this one out!
Most Thai people are very entrepreneurial, they have to be, no nanny state to fall back on here and they grow up as traders, buying, selling and swapping to make a living. While you were playing cowboys and Indians or doctors and nurses the Thai kids were in the market grafting someone.

I am still being taught by my Thai teachers, all younger and with a lot more patience than me. I guess I learn more from them each day than they learn from me. They actually have some great ideas and practices; they just need to live in an environment where they are allowed the freedom to express themselves. Chai Yen Yen, let people sit under a tree sometimes but talk to them whilst they are there, exercising minds is a great stimulus and Thai people, given that freedom to express themselves really enjoy a good debate. Mind you they will not get that with me because I am a westerner still living at the western speed so I cannot spare the time to sit under a tree!
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Post by Spitfire »

Well clive, sorry, a lot of that I don't agree with. 80% is a 'load of bollacks'.

Think you've been here too long and are becoming Thai.

The whole reason they need to do something about it is because, if they don't, then the situation will just get worse/fester/stagnate over time, change is inevitable and necessary. They have already been left bethind in the 'gobal village/business' field already, apart from tourism.

Can preserve the culture/identity :blabla: of a country without making it nationalistic, internationally economically inept, brain dead, stuck in its ways, in denile about 'progress',etc,etc,etc,etc,etc.

Sure they can do well here regards domestic business but they are not open to suggestion. Just because they ask you questions doesn't mean they are learning from you, it's just a polite way to find out if you're insane(in their eyes).

Change the education system and everything else changes, usually for the better.

:|
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Post by buksida »

spitfire wrote: Change the education system and everything else changes, usually for the better.
I have to agree with that sentiment, it relates to the 'killing of the questioning mind' that the MoE are now trying to do even more so ... just going faster in reverse IMHO.
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Post by yabz »

We can give them some tips on how to run their banking system too...

...I'm sure they'd be very interested... :) :idea:
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Post by dtaai-maai »

yabz wrote:We can give them some tips on how to run their banking system too...

...I'm sure they'd be very interested... :) :idea:
:lach: :lach:

Spitfire, I remember recently saying that I wished you would call someone an arse.

And you finally did it!! :cheers: :party:

Unfortunately, I think you chose the wrong someone. Seems to me only the last couple of sentences were ballocks really. I mean, why would you be here, if you really need all that rat-race nonsense?

Don't get me wrong, I agree that the education system needs to be changed, from year dot on. But I don't think anything clive said contradicted that. I agreed with 80% of what he said. And frankly, that's not bad going for me these days.

But then, maybe I've been here too long as well! :P :cheers:
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Post by redzonerocker »

excellent post from clive :thumb:
i think we can learn as much from the thais as they from us.
just remember they don't have the safety net of the welfare system & free healthcare to fall back on (or abuse as it seems to be more & more these days in the uk :( )
i think to much change to quickly won't be good for thailand as a whole :?
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Foreigners can lead by example

Post by margaretcarnes »

Yes Redzone, agreed, any change in LOS must be at their own pace, and education wise it seems they're still not ready for it for whatever reason.
What puzzles me though is why us Brits/Westerners imagine that our business ways are best?
Lets be honest, how many of us have sat through countless away days, team building events, NLP'ing, brainstorming sessions etc etc and come out thinking 'gawd, what a waste of time, I could have got that pile of files cleared today. Just let me get on with the job I'm paid to do!'
Yes, management skills do need refining in order to motivate and assess staff without stepping over the dreaded 'PC' line these days. Job related skills are essential. But top and bottom is common sense in bucket loads.
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Post by clive »

Judging by the language in a couple of answers we are sadly lacking in education as well.
Be realistic, we cannot change their education system, we do not have that power, so why not try to educate those few around you. The imm think there are 10,000 farangh in HH so if each of us tries to help just 2 Thai people open their eyes that is 20,000 and they will carry on that task. That is how you help a society like this. It is a slow process but so was educating the so called western world.
Oh and by the way read between the lines, I have left stress city behind most of the time, not quite sitting under the tree but nearly there! That is one reason why I live here!
And guys, please let’s keep the language on the forum acceptable to everyone, Yes?
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Post by cozza »

As far as saying that the 'Asian' way of business is inferior to the western business thinking as a whole, take a look at the global markets at the moment and decide that for yourself based on facts and figures which is better.

The Western markets are dropping in free fall...and they are supposed to learn from us???

Regarding 'face value', sure its a problem, but in the West I think we call it 'Political correctness'. At the end of the day, common sense is what is truly lacking. This should be the foundation of the education, not Western nor Thai/Asian, just plain common sense. Lets face it, Globalisation is here!
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