caller wrote:We are talking of the sainted Gerrard, last night!
And from me too
Thanks for the explanation Red. I always forget the stoppage time within stoppage time.
I agree about it not being a dive. It was a reckless two footed challenge that was doomed to be a disaster in a situation in the dying minutes of the game in the attempt to get an equalizing penalty. The ball was just about to be secured by the defense and Gerard did the only thing possible in the time remaining. Cheat.
As Red says above the foul was committed in the 94th minute by Gerard but awarded against him. I think he only just scored the penalty after it going in off the post.
Anyway the overall picture is different. Liverpool were denied two penalties that they should have been awarded and they were unlucky not to be 3 - 1 up by that time.
As for Chelsea, I am not sure if a blip or not. Two very difficult matches against relegation prospects Roma and the first home defeat since Julius Ceasar visited Stamford Bridge and then a 5 - 0 away win smack in the middle.
On a positive note. For me the best result of the night was Juventus beating Real Madrid 2 0 on their own ground. Even better the goals were both scored by Del Pierro who celebrates his 34th birthday on Sunday.
Juventus (half way down) Serie A and Roma (3rd from bottom of Serie A) show the strength of Italian football at the moment.
Bad luck for Celtic who now still have to motor on just to drop into the Eufa cup. And for the coffin nail to be driven home by a Welshman. What next?
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Thai Tam
I am just listening to Talk Sport and am hearing Strachan getting a right slating for his tactics last night.
I did not see the game, so cannot comment. But the people are questioning his taking off the forwards when the game was there to be won. Was it that bad or are people just having a go for the sake of it.
No one is questioning the gulf in the quality of the teams, just how Strachan acted after they had gone one up.
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Guess wrote:
I agree about it not being a dive. It was a reckless two footed challenge that was doomed to be a disaster in a situation in the dying minutes of the game in the attempt to get an equalizing penalty. The ball was just about to be secured by the defense and Gerard did the only thing possible in the time remaining. Cheat.
I think he only just scored the penalty after it going in off the post.
He didn't go in with two feet at all and he didn't "only just score"
He absolutely banged it in.
A small majority of the sky pundits are saying it was a penalty.
Also, apparently the linesman signalled for a foul, not the usual signal for a penalty, so with him saying it was a foul and the Ref seeing it was in the area he had to award it.
As I was in my sick bed I did not travel to Parkhead - I listened on 5 Live.
First half was 50:50 and second half Man Utd changed game plan To be fair to Strachan he had limited options and he played the best team/formation he could. So no complaints from me
This Redknapp bloke is bit creepy, he's some kind of paranormal being, he should be exercised out of the club, along with all the other un-fit c$$$$. Scary times at WHL.
Guess wrote:
I think he only just scored the penalty after it going in off the post.
He didn't go in with two feet at all and he didn't "only just score"
He absolutely banged it in.
I have just replayed the Turkish TV footage and seen the foul by Gerrard from 2 different angles. Both tell the same story. Gerard goes in with both feet in the air and flies for about two metres without touching the ground. He does make contact with his elbow on the defenders shoulder. The guy needed to move his head swiftly to avoid the elbow in the face.
I have highlighted the important words. From the front view it looks like the ball hits the post but the side view clearly shows it actually hits the rear netting support.
BaaBaa. wrote:
A small majority of the sky pundits are saying it was a penalty.
Also, apparently the linesman signalled for a foul, not the usual signal for a penalty, so with him saying it was a foul and the Ref seeing it was in the area he had to award it.
So.......
Sky "pundits". Sky have changed the lives of many people over the last two decades. Are they now trying to redefine the English Language (or is it Hindi). Anyway, Golden Labradors on standby.
I am not sure of the ruling regards linesman and there have been subtle changes recently due to bad decisions.
My understanding is that if the referee makes a decision and he sees his linesman is at odds with him then they meet up for a chin wag.
The linesman was off camera on the footage I saw and the commentary was in Turkish so I have no idea what he signaled.
Is the signal for a foul different from a signal for a penalty? As fare as I am aware the referee just signals a foul and flags in the direction of play and then points to the spot. What does the linesman do?
Another interesting fact is that a minority of supporters pictured below though it was not a penalty.
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Guess wrote:
Is the signal for a foul different from a signal for a penalty? As fare as I am aware the referee just signals a foul and flags in the direction of play and then points to the spot. What does the linesman do?
just for the record, the linesman holds his flag across his chest to signal a penalty
Remember, no one can make you feel inferior without your consent.
BaaBaa. wrote:...............Having both feet in the air is a necessity when performing what is known as a jump.
And holding up an arm and moving your hand is called a wave, but if someone's head is next to your hand when you do it it's called a slap in the boat race.
Anyway it's supposed to be a football match, not the ladies Olympic high jump event.
Anyway it was a good match and Liverpool at least got a point. On merit they should have had all three. That league will now go to the wire with IMHO Liverpool having the harder run in. We will see.
BTW do you know any of the guys in the old photo?
dtaai-maai wrote:
Guess wrote: As for Chelsea, ... and the first home defeat since Julius Ceasar visited Stamford Bridge ...
Are you rewriting English history, Guess?
Julius Ceasar the Santos junior team striker of course when coming to the Bridge for a trial. Honest.
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To save everybody hunting around and doing the math, here is the summary after last night's showings.
My commiserations to Celtic.
Does anybody know the draw for the next round or is it one of those where they wait until after the last group game.
Group E
Man Utd 9
Villarreal 9
Aalborg 5
Celtic 2
Manchester United have qualified for the knockout stage. They are ahead of Villarreal by two goals' difference, with an equal head-to-head record. If they stay level/ahead on points with Villarreal, and maintain a goal difference greater than that of Villarreal they will win the group. They meet AaB Aalborg in Matchday 6.
Villarreal have qualified for the knockout stage. They are behind Manchester United by two goals' difference, with an equal head-to-head record. If they go level/ahead on points with United, and produce a goal difference greater than that of Manchester United they will win the group. They meet Celtic away in Matchday 6.
AaB Aalborg cannot qualify for the knockout stages. They have secured their place in the UEFA Cup as Celtic cannot outdo them on points and have an inferior head-to-head record.
Celtic cannot qualify for the knockout stages. They are guaranteed a fourth place finish as they cannot outdo Aalborg on points and have an inferior head-to-head record.
Group F
Lyon 11
Bayern 11
Fiorentina 3
Steaua 1
Lyon have qualified for the knockout stage. They will meet Bayern in Matchday 6 at home for a match that will decide who wins the group. Currently Lyon lead Bayern on head to head on away goals after a 1-1 draw in Munich. With a goal difference two worse than Bayern's, they must manage a 0-0 draw or a win to guarantee group leadership after Matchday 6.
Bayern Munich have qualified for the knockout stage. They will meet Lyon away in Matchday 6 for a match that will decide who wins the group. Currently Lyon lead Bayern on head to head on away goals after a 1-1 draw in Munich. With a goal difference two better than Lyon's, they must manage a scoring draw or a win to guarantee group leadership after Matchday 6.
Fiorentina cannot qualify for the knockout stage. Anything other than defeat at Steaua on Matchday 6 will see them through to the UEFA Cup.
Steaua Bucharest cannot qualify for the knockout stage. Anything other than victory against Fiorentina on Matchday 6 will see them finish fourth.
Group G
Arsenal 11
Porto 9
Dynamo Kiev 5
Fenerbahce 2
Arsenal have qualified for the knockout stage. A draw or a win at Porto in Matchday 6 will see them win the group.
Porto have qualified for the knockout stage. They must beat Arsenal in Matchday 6 to win the group.
Dynamo Kyiv cannot qualify for the knockout stage. Their current head-to-head record with Fenerbahce is that of a 0-0 draw; if they lose to Fenerbahce on Matchday 6 they will finish last on head-to-head. Otherwise they qualify for the UEFA Cup.
Fenerbahce cannot qualify for the knockout stage. They must win at Dynamo Kyiv on Matchday 6 to reach the UEFA Cup; otherwise they finish fourth.
Group H
Juventus 11
Real Madrid 9
Zenit 5
BATE 2
Juventus have qualified for the knockout stage. A draw against BATE on Matchday 6 will see them win the group, even if Real Madrid win their match, as they have a better head-to-head record than the Spaniards.
Real Madrid have qualified for the knockout stage. A win over Zenit, coupled with a Juventus defeat at home to BATE, is the only possible way in which they can win the group.
Zenit cannot qualify for the knockout stage. Even if they lose on Matchday 6 and BATE win they will finish third due to a superior head-to-head record with the Belarussians.
BATE cannot qualify for the knockout stage, nor the UEFA Cup.
As a reminder, here is the state of play prior to Matchday 5 for groups A-D, whose matches are to be played on Wednesday evening.
Group A
Chelsea 7
Roma 6
Bordeaux 6
CFR Cluj 4
Chelsea will qualify for the next stage if they win against Bordeaux. If they win and Roma lose they will guarantee group leadership.
Roma cannot guarantee qualification for the next round, and nor can they be eliminated, in Matchday 5.
Bordeaux cannot guarantee qualification for the next round, and nor can they be eliminated, in Matchday 5.
CFR Cluj must avoid defeat against Roma if they are to finish in the top two. They otherwise cannot be knocked out, and nor can they guarantee qualification.
Group B
Inter 8
Anorthosis 5
Panathinaikos 4
Werder Bremen 3
Inter will qualify with a win or a draw against Panathinaikos. They will be guaranteed first place if they win and Anorthosis fail to beat Bremen.
Anorthosis will reach the next stage if they beat Bremen and Panathinaikos lose to Inter. Furthermore they will be guaranteed at least a third place finish if they beat Bremen, regardless of results elsewhere. They can finish top if they beat Bremen and Inter lose to Panathinaikos, and results on Matchday 6 go their way.
Panathinaikos must not lose to Inter if Anorthosis beat Werder Bremen: if they do so they can only finish third. Otherwise they will remain in with a chance of qualification until Matchday 6.
Werder Bremen will be unable to finish second if they lose to Anorthosis. If they draw and Panathinaikos beat Inter the same applies. They will finish fourth if they draw 0-0 with Anorthosis and end Matchday 6 with an inferior goal difference to Anorthosis. (They are currently 0-0 on head-to-head.)
Group C
Barcelona 10
Sporting CP 9
Shakhtar 3
Basel 1
Barcelona have already qualified for the next stage. Victory over Sporting assures them of top spot.
Sporting have already qualified for the next stage. Victory over Barcelona will put them ahead of Barcelona by two points; depending on the margin of victory they may then only need a point on Matchday 6 to win the group. (They are currently 3-1 down on head-to-head.)
Shakhtar will finish third if they beat Basel. A draw will see them ahead on head-to-head, meaning that they would require just a draw on Matchday 6 to guarantee qualification.
Basel must not lose to Shakhtar to keep dreams of third place alive. A draw will see them needing a win, and for Shakhtar to lose, on Matchday 6 to finish third.
Group D
Atletico Madrid 8
Liverpool 8
Marseille 3
PSV Eindhoven 3
Atletico Madrid will qualify for the next stage if they win against PSV. They will qualify if they draw and Marseille do not win against Liverpool. They are, prior to kick-off, 1 goal ahead of Liverpool with identical head-to-head.
Liverpool are in the exact same scenario as Atletico Madrid, only with the teams reversed and being one goal behind Atletico Madrid.
Marseille must win to remain in contention for the knockout stages. If they lose and PSV lose, too, they remain ahead of the Dutch side on points and thus in pole position for 3rd place.
PSV are in the exact same situation as Marseille, only they have an inferior head-to-head record to Marseille so they will finish fourth if they end up level on points with them after Matchday 6.
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Guess wrote:
Does anybody know the draw for the next round or is it one of those where they wait until after the last group game.
the last 16 go into two hats, group winners & runners up.
the only ruling is that no team can play another from the same country or the runner up from their first group.
ie arsenal will not be able to play chelsk, liverpool, manx or porto no matter which position they finish up in the group
sometimes it can take a while to make the draw, especially if several teams from specific countries have a mix of group winners & runners up
Remember, no one can make you feel inferior without your consent.
redzonerocker wrote:
the last 16 go into two hats, group winners & runners up.
..........................
sometimes it can take a while to make the draw, especially if several teams from specific countries have a mix of group winners & runners up
Thanks for that. I remember now that some years ago there was a situation where it was known who you would meet in the next round and it was in the interest of one team to come second rather than first. It may have been Chelsea and Barcelona.
I have done a few draws myself and I can imagine it would need a few runs to satisfy the criteria.
It looks very much like the last eight will be heavily dominated by the big three countries.
Of the 12 starters from England, Italy and Spain it looks like only one isn't going to make the next round.
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